MBB: NESCAC

[La Verdad]

Thank you, Pat, for rectifying the situation.

It would have been dealt with sooner without your interference and whining.

Or if you had just admitted that you made an honest mistake and given Alex the credit he deserved.  Instead, you tried to rationalize your error with various excuses...it was just a press release...we didn't know who the author was...my fingers hurt.

You really fumbled this one.  Your battle with the Historian should have happened via email or message, rather than on the boards.  The moderator of the site should probably be held to a higher standard than a random poster...mudslinging isn't very professional. 

Your discussion with Kantor should have lasted about two minutes, enough time to apologize and assure him that you would rectify the situation.  In reality it was probably a longer conversation that involved you being stubborn and defending your position, Kantor threatening legal action, and you backpedaling faster than I can type Adolphe Coulibaly. 

[Pat Coleman]

Unfortunately, Historian chose to take the effort to dozens of message boards. I didn't have much of a choice but to explain myself on his turf.

Any reasonable request from Amherst sports information has long since been met. This is a non-story and while I can tell from your IP address that you would like to make it more of one, it isn't going to hold water. Only Amherst fans who have never worked in the news media seem to favor your position.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Well, I'm going to have to say, Pat, when you received a press release with no byline, your journalistic spidey-sense should have told you immediately who the author was and that they would want credit for something generally sent anonymously.  I'm appalled at your lack of clairvoyance.  I expect a super-human effort from d3hoops.com and sadly all we got was an above-average example of professionalism.  Dang.

[Working SID]

I can't believe this is still a topic for discussion. I felt like I had to register to provide some reality for this group.

The SID role exists for us to promote our schools, athletic departments and the student-athletes on the field/court/rink/pitch/in the pool/etc. We do this by sending press releases to media outlets such as the Boston Globe, the Hartford Courant, D3Hoops.com, D3Football.com, local radio stations, as well as outlets far across the country that serve the hometowns of our student-athletes. We call and pitch story ideas.

We send releases expressly in the hope that they get used in the way D3 did here. Professional SIDs don't ask for bylines, they don't post on message boards complaining about a byline not being used and they don't get their buddies to do it either. Getting a writing credit is not what being an SID is about. If you want that, go to a newspaper or try to work at a magazine. I can't count the number of times, for example, that a couple paragraphs of my press release have run word for word in a newspaper in this region. Multiple times I've heard parts of my release read over the air on radio stations and, if we're lucky, on TV with a nightly scoreboard.

To La Verdad: If Alex Kantor threatened legal action, I hope to heck that Pat Coleman laughed in his face (if by phone) or brushed him off (if by e-mail). The fact of the matter is Alex Kantor cannot threaten legal action on behalf of Amherst College, unless he has gotten a rather substantial promotion to the college's General Counsel position.

I have met Alex. I know he is new to the SID world. But this should be painfully clear to anyone else reading this by now. SIDs don't demand credit, certainly when they can't be bothered to credit themselves.

When I send out a press release, I hope and expect for it to be used. My name isn't relevant to the article. The names of the kids are what's important. For an SID to raise a stink that overshadows the student-athletes is childish and unprofessional, and I hope that this SID learns a lesson from this. My press releases, or parts of them, have run all over the place uncredited--including in previous years on Amherst's athletics Web site. That's the name of the game.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

[mybleedinghands]

the problem here is that this is more than just a simple press release, it's an article and articles should not be treated the same as a press release. you write press releases on a game that happened, on an award a coach or player received, etc. you don't write press releases chronicling some kids life story, that's not a press release, that's an article. the written piece in debate here is an article, that's exactly what it is. if it was published in a magazine, a newspaper, a newsletter, etc. just about everyone would consider it an article, not a press release. it's nothing at all like a press release, it doesn't follow the same style as a good press release, it's not written like a good press release. it's not written in the inverted pyramid style that your typical press release is written in, it's written in the typical article style. if this is in fact intended to be a press release, then it's poorly written due to the fact it's not in inverted pyramid style, but I highly doubt it was intended to be written as a press release to begin with. i don't care if you are an SID, the president of the US, or some bum living on the streets, if you write an article you deserve to receive some sort of credit for it, but if it's a press release and you make a fuss over it then you need to get over it - but this piece isn't a press release, it's an article.

[Friar T]

My two cents...

As a member of the sports journalism world this has gotten way out of hand. The problem is all solved by the addition of a few simple words that should be included on ALL releases.

"Courtesy of ? Sports Information" or whatever sending organization is relevent.

How hard is this? It's what many other sports websites do, and it completely clears up any confusion about authors, credit, etc. When you don't site a source it's considered original work, and I think I learned that in junior high english.

Also, how can anyone consider this story a simple press release? This isn't a game recap that says School A beat School B and Joe Schmo scored 18 points. This is an indepth feature story that required research, interviews and creative license. The fact that it was written for use in the Amherst College Football Gameday Magazine and possible the Amherst College quarterly alumni magazine is also relevent, but I won't go there. If it didn't come with a byline (which I'm sure it didn't and completely agree with the point that you can't make one up), you still need to make it clear that the work was not your own.

Again, this all could have been a avoided with a simple, small disclaimer.

[mybleedinghands]

As a member of the sports journalism world this has gotten way out of hand. The problem is all solved by the addition of a few simple words that should be included on ALL releases.

"Courtesy of ? Sports Information" or whatever sending organization is relevent.

Good point. I know on Lynchburg College's athletics website, it has something like that at the bottom of every press release. That little tidbit doesn't get in the newspaper, but with our newspaper we are just thankful if they even put anything in it about us.

Also, how can anyone consider this story a simple press release? This isn't a game recap that says School A beat School B and Joe Schmo scored 18 points. This is an indepth feature story that required research, interviews and creative license.

Thank you for also pointing this out!!!

[nescac hoops]

I agree with the holyman on this one. Just a "courtesy of Alex Kantor, Amherst College SID" should have been added at the end or just "courtesy of Amherst College"...anything really. That being said, if the Amherst SID is truly looking into a lawsuit that is pretty hysterical - I'm guessing that d3hoops is a relatively non-profit website/"company" that keeps crazy d3 fans like ourselves informed on teams/players/info that would otherwise be unknown. I'm sure it was an honest mistake/negligance on Pat's behalf but one that could easily be corrected with the examples above and this "story" wouldn't be dominating the discussion on this board.

[Pat Coleman]

My two cents...

As a member of the sports journalism world this has gotten way out of hand. The problem is all solved by the addition of a few simple words that should be included on ALL releases.

"Courtesy of ? Sports Information" or whatever sending organization is relevent.

How hard is this? It's what many other sports websites do, and it completely clears up any confusion about authors, credit, etc. When you don't site a source it's considered original work, and I think I learned that in junior high english.

Also, how can anyone consider this story a simple press release? This isn't a game recap that says School A beat School B and Joe Schmo scored 18 points. This is an indepth feature story that required research, interviews and creative license. The fact that it was written for use in the Amherst College Football Gameday Magazine and possible the Amherst College quarterly alumni magazine is also relevent, but I won't go there. If it didn't come with a byline (which I'm sure it didn't and completely agree with the point that you can't make one up), you still need to make it clear that the work was not your own.

Again, this all could have been a avoided with a simple, small disclaimer.

If they had included this information when they sent the e-mail, we'd have done so. Or when they sent their original complaint Saturday morning. Or their second complaint.

When I got it on the third go-around, I added it. That's all. End of story folks. If the reprint info had been provided up front, or on Saturday morning, it would've gone on the site earlier.

T: I hope you include information on your press releases. I'm sure Amherst has learned from this and will tighten up its operation. Meanwhile, we'll certainly think twice about using any Amherst info in the future.

Seriously, in 10 years of this site, we've gotten complaints all of two times from an SID wanting a byline. That should give you an indication as to the way of the world.

And interesting that STH notes that the courtesy line doesn't make his local paper, but they are happy the released info gets in. That is pretty much standard across SID-land, as it was when I was a young SID myself.

[Friar T]

More importantly... is everyone just terrified about the lineup the Jeffs return this year? I know I am...

Andrew Olson for 2008 Bob Cousy Award

Amherst Back-To-Back Champs?
Probably...

[nescac hoops]

Meanwhile, we'll certainly think twice about using any Amherst info in the future.

don't forget to add, "and think twice about voting Amherst to be #1 in the preseason poll." Hoops fan, there goes the credibility of the d3hoops poll...

[Friar T]

Such deep seeded corruption in the world of division III basketball...

Next thing you know there will be recruiting accusations and a point-shaving scandal...

Any over-hyped Williams recruits this year?

[Pat Coleman]

Meanwhile, we'll certainly think twice about using any Amherst info in the future.

don't forget to add, "and think twice about voting Amherst to be #1 in the preseason poll." Hoops fan, there goes the credibility of the d3hoops poll...

I'm actually more likely to vote Amherst No. 1 after reading the story in question, ironically.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

More importantly... is everyone just terrified about the lineup the Jeffs return this year? I know I am...

Andrew Olson for 2008 Bob Cousy Award

Amherst Back-To-Back Champs?
Probably...

After all this I can only hope that Amherst gets nowhere near the Final Four. Think of all the press releases they'll be sending out then!

[John Gleich]

I'm confused...  Was the point of writing the piece that the writer gets the credit or the story of a young man overcoming adversity and coming back to play the game he loves?  

I certainly hope that it was the second, which makes the first moot.  And when the party that SENT the piece didn't put a byline on it, how is anyone supposed to know who wrote it?

This site isn't a for-profit endeavor.  The creator has a job and a family and plenty of other responsibilities, but, in the spirit of D-III athletics, it's all for the love of the game that it has been made and run for the last 10 years.

One of the things that I love about D-III is the hometown feel, NOT the brash commercialization and the ME FIRST, credit grabbing of sports in the spotlight of D-I.  Let's keep it this way and not degrade it to be more