MBB: NESCAC

[Pat Coleman]

Shalvoy in particular was very highly considered. But not against Martin, of course, since they play different positions.

[formerbant10]

Shalvoy has improved more over his first 3 years than anyone I can remember.  Struggled a little bit as a rookie, but as of last year really impressed. 

Gotta show some respect to ballers from The ROC

[nescac hoops]

Shalvoy has improved more over his first 3 years than anyone I can remember.  Struggled a little bit as a rookie, but as of last year really impressed. 

Gotta show some respect to ballers from The ROC

ben coffin?

[lemonjello]

Nice to see Hopkins get some love.  I'm expecting a big year from him now that he will be starting, and should be getting more minutes.

[Gregory Sager]

I didn't mean to minimize AMherst and Williams' accomplishments in reaching final fours.  As a Williams fan, I obviously believe those teams deserved to  make it, were among the most talented teams nationally, and they generally proved it once they made it there.  But the reality is, no northeast region team (besides each other and Amherst's achilles heel Tufts) has ever come close to giving top-flight Williams or Amherst teams a game in the tourney as far as I can remember.  It is only when they hit teams from other regions, like Rochester, Rowan when they were a power, etc. that the powerhouse Eph / Jeff squads have encountered problems.  If we are going to be honest, the midwest brackets are usually much tougher.  So in the past, it was pretty easy to predict that "dominant" Amherst or Williams squads would likely make the final four because no one from the Northeast was in their class ... they wouldn't have to face other dominant squads until the final four or, at worst, the elite eight.  But year in and year out, powerhouse teams from CCIW, OAC, WIAC, etc. have to face off against one another very early in the tourney, leading to far more unpredicatable results in early rounds of tourney play.  For instance, is there any doubt that Stevens Point would have made the final four last year had they faced the same competition along the way as Amherst?  So as good as Wash U. is, it is far from likely they will even make the final four, considering they will probaby have to beat a WIAC and CCIW team along the way.  Normally, you couldn't say the same about Amherst, but this year, they will also face teams with nearly equal talent levels come tourney time, because there are more than just 1-2 nationally competitive teams, it appears, in the new england region.  And not only new england, but Brockport, who often plays nescac schools in the tourney, looks to have its most talented team ever.

Only two non-NESCAC teams have managed to represent the Northeast Region in the Final Four over the past twenty years: Southern Maine in 1989, and Salem State in 2000. Both lost badly in the national semis, Southern Maine by 22 to an NJAC team and Salem State by 28 to a WIAC team. As you all are probably aware, the '03 Williams team and the '07 Amherst team are the only two Northeast Region teams to ever lug home the Walnut & Bronze. No non-NESCAC team from this region has ever done it.

The last non-UAA (i.e., Rochester or NYU) team to reach the Final Four from the East Region was Hartwick in 1988. That team lost by 23 in the national semis. Aside from the amazing Potsdam State run under the legendary Jerry Welsh in the late '70s and through the mid-'80s, the East Region's history (the two UAA schools excepted) has been equally dismal and championship-free.

All three of those teams -- Salem State in '00, Southern Maine in '89, and Hartwick in '88 -- lost to the eventual national runner-up, incidentally, not to the eventual national champion.

Are there non-NESCAC and non-UAA programs in the northeastern corner of the country that are now attaining national power status? Could be. But it remains to be proven.

Just some food for thought.

[nescachoopsfan]

can someone explain to me why middlebury is projected as one of the top teams in the conference?  I think that people are missing the big picture with them last year.  while they are a physical team, and are tough to beat at home, they only had 2 players that you really needed to focus on.  ben rudin being one, and the other was evan thompson.  evam thompson seemed to wake up out of a coma last year and exploded onto the scene.  but with him gone, rudin is the only real force on the team.
i would love to hear other opinions on the panthers

[dman]

gregory,
  if memory serves me, clark u. had a couple of good years in the mid 80's....

[nescac1]

Middlebury has improved a lot over the last few years, and they had a young team last year (including two sophomore and one frosh starter).  They return four starters from what was really a very balanced team.  Andrew Harris and Rudin gives them one of the top three backcourts in the conference, and Aaron Smith is one of the top posts in the conference.  Toss in Edwards who is a nice defensive stopper type and 3-4 other role players who saw time in the rotation last year, and that is a solid group.  Plus they seem to be bringing in a lot of talent.  Kelleher got a lot of hype last year and figures to get more minutes this season as a sophomore, and this year's frosh class looks strong.  The roster is up and it includes Ryan Wholey who is supposed to be one of the top div-III recruits in New England plus a 6'10 kid from the west coast (who knows how good he'll be, but 6'10 is 6'10).   I'd say Midd is still a year away from being a contender for the nescac championship (with all that Amherst, Trinity, Tufts, Bowdoin and Williams are losing after this season, Midd might even be the preseason favorite next year), but the talent level has been improving each year, as have the results.  

As for most improved, this goes way back in time, but Sheehy said Geoff Chapin '96 was the most improved he ever coached ... he was a pretty minimal contributor as a frosh and sophomore and ended up as the best center in the country -- by the end of his senior year, no one could stop him.  In recent history, as formerbant says Shalvoy is definitely a strong candidate there.  If his upward trajectory continues, he will surely get some all-american consideration, which was pretty unthinkable based on his frosh season, and even more remarkable for a guard (big guys like coffin tend to deveop more slowly).   Less familiar with other nescac teams, although two recent most improved candidates would be kino clarke and dan martin.  

[formerbant10]

gregory,
  if memory serves me, clark u. had a couple of good years in the mid 80's....

dman is right,

the cougars made it to the championship game twice....84 and 87.  This was during an 11 year streak of NCAA appearances.  They also went to the Elite 8 and lost to Catholic (eventual winner) in a very close game in Worcester in 2001 and were just as good the following year.


nescac1,

Kino was always a very good player, but was buried on the bench his freshman year.  His numbers improved as his playing time increased more than his actual improvement in skill level.  But you're right, by his senior year he was a lot of fun to watch.

[ephoops]

NESCAC1:

You are correct regarding Chapin.  In fact, his upward trajectory peaked in his last game as a collegian.   In the Elite 8 game between Rowan and Williams, Chapin had 30 points and 13 rebounds, despite playing the game with a migraine headache that limited his playing time in the first half of the game.  One of the gutsiest performances from an athlete I've ever witnessed.

[met_fan]

I could be totally off base here, but it seems to me that Coulibay gets an awful lot of attention for doing relatively little in the time he's been at Amherst.  I just don't remember him ever really being a huge force for them.

[walzy31]

The attention to Dolphe the legend is probably due in part to him being the best "4th scoring option" on any squad in New England, and his ability to play above the rim and hit the open three.

[Gregory Sager]

gregory,
  if memory serves me, clark u. had a couple of good years in the mid 80's....

dman is right,

the cougars made it to the championship game twice....84 and 87.  This was during an 11 year streak of NCAA appearances.  They also went to the Elite 8 and lost to Catholic (eventual winner) in a very close game in Worcester in 2001 and were just as good the following year.

Clark has historically been a very good program. I was at the national championship game in '87 in which North Park defeated Clark, and I can attest that Kermit Sharp, Finbar Regan, Jason Qua & Co. were very good. It was no accident that those Cougars snapped Potsdam State's D3-record 60-game winning streak the weekend prior to that Final Four. Clark's 26 tourney victories put it in the all-time D3 tourney top ten for wins, and along with UMass-Dartmouth and Salem State it was one of the Northeast Region's three traditional powers prior to the first appearance of the NESCAC in the dance in March '94.

Nevertheless, Clark's record doesn't contradict what I said last night. No non-NESCAC team from the Northeast Region other than the Southern Maine and Salem State teams I mentioned (plus one I forgot: UMass-Dartmouth was in the '94 Final Four, and finished fourth) has made it to the Final Four in the last twenty years. Clark's '87 appearance was 21 seasons ago.

Just to follow up on this point:

* Over the last twenty years, the Northeast Region has achieved a 25-28 record against out-of-region teams (aside from the East Region) in the D3 tournament. However, when you remove the NESCAC teams from that total, the Northeast Region's record drops to 9-16. There was a nine-year period, from 1991 through 1999, when the only Northeast Region teams that managed to beat a non-East out-of-region team in the big dance were ... Amherst, Trinity, Williams, and Connecticut College.

* Over the last twenty years, the East Region has achieved a 20-27 mark against out-of-region teams (aside from the Northeast Region) in the D3 tourney. But when you subtract Rochester and NYU from that total, the East Region's record plummets to 8-17. For seven Marches in a row, from 1997 through 2003, not one East Region team -- including the Yellowjackets and the Fighting Violets -- managed to beat an out-of-region team (aside from the Northeast Region) in the tourney.

The NESCAC and the UAA are tested and established leagues in D3 in terms of producing legitimate national powerhouses. But aside from the representatives of those two leagues, the Northeast and East regions have a lot to prove to the rest of the country.

[The Historian]

I know I pissed off a lot of people with my postings a few weeks ago about crediting press releases.  While I admit that my postings were not as diplomatic as they could have been, I stand by my conviction that it is important to give the original writer -- or, at least, the source -- all credit due.

In that vein, and to show that I don't just point out problems, I openly applaud d3hoops for crediting all of their front page stories on conference previews.  That simple step -- giving a byline that says the article came from someone else's press release -- is all I sought.

Good job.

[lemonjello]

met_fan, I think there are several reasons for the attention Coulibaly has received.

1.  He was a D1 transfer who actually got playing time as a freshman, so that speaks to his level of talent.

2.  He was putting up some pretty good scoring numbers in the early part of Amherst's season before he went back to the Ivory Coast, and probably would have started ahead of Baskauskas for the rest of the season.

3.  He's a starter for and the co-captain of the Ivory Coast National Team.  That may not mean much for NESCAC basketball, but it's pretty cool nonetheless.

And of course, there's this story:
https://cms.amherst.edu/athletics/teams/winter/basketball-m/articles/2007_08/0927_coulibaly_feature