MBB: NESCAC

[NY hoopster]

Formerbant;

Anyone who believes they can predict individual game results in this league should be certified for that all-crazy team of analysts. And I don't do the psychic thing. But haven't we had a pleasant time not discussing Amherst  and Williams?

[formerbant10]

I'm an equal opportunity reader, don't really mind either way.

I was asking for scores or anything like that, just that you seem pretty adamant that Colby will be in the top group and to do so they'd have to knock off one of the teams that usually is in there.  Just wondering if you had an inkling or two as to what teams Colby could beat.  And yes I know it's the NESCAC and crazy things can happen...like on 0-8 team beating a 7-1 team in the final game to drop them to 7-2 (2nd seed) and a semifinal loss which ended up putting them on the road in the 2nd round of the NCAA tourney.

[frank uible]

99 44/100% of the people on this earth don't know that Amherst or Williams exists.

[The Historian]

99 44/100% of the people on this earth don't know that Amherst or Williams exists.

Thank god for that 0.56%.

[Jacketfan2011]

Yeah, jesus graduated from Williams and did his grad work at Amhesrt, right?  Or am I thinking of buddha?

[frank uible]

God was accepted by both of them but decided that He would attend The School of Hard Knocks instead.

[ILive4This]

Surprisingly that is actually not a terrible estimate. It is prob a bit higher, but not much. That number comes out to around 34 million people. When you assume that most people aged 16-30 in the northeast have heard of the two schools, plus a various number of this age group across the country, and abroad, plus older/younger people as well, 34 million does not seem far off. This comes out to be just over 10% of the US population, but I do feel like scholars across the world are familiar with these institutions as well.

[Pat Coleman]

Yeah, jesus graduated from Williams and did his grad work at Amhesrt, right?  Or am I thinking of buddha?

Jesus Alou?

[nescac hoops]

With first semester games over, here are my all-NESCAC teams based on November and December.

1st team
Jon Pierce (Tufts) - POY/ Player of the first semester
Charles Stone (Conn)
Andrew Olson (Amherst)
Russ Martin (Trinity)
Joe Geoghegan (Williams)

2nd team
Chris Shalvoy (Williams)
Adam Choice (Colby)
Andrew Harris (Middlebury)
Jake Weitzen or J. Black (Tufts) - (I would be interested to hear what Tufts fans would say)
Brandon Jones (Amherst)

Please keep in mind this is for the months of November and December, not for the entire season. Right now I think Pierce is playing like the best player in the league and Geoghegan has been the most consistent for Williams in the first semester with 13pts. and 9 boards being pretty impressive for an undefeated team. His best games have also come at crucial times, often in close games when the rest of the ephs were not playing/shooting well.

[nescac1]

That is pretty good, Nescac Hoops.  I think Shalvoy and Weitzen will both end up as at LEAST second teamers, but right now I think R. Taylor from Trinity and as you note Black are both more deserving based on production to date.  I imagine Jones will slow down a little (he has produced some gaudy numbers against some of the weaker teams) and the coaches will probably make Choice, only a Sophomore, and Geoghegan wait their turns unless either has a monster second semester.  I'd expect veterans like Aaron Smith from Midd (now healthy and putting up huge numbers), Chris Rose, and Hopkins/Baskauskas from Amherst to move into the conversation once league play begins.  J. Young and A. Cutrone could also make a case, but I imagine both will cool down once the level of competition amps up during league play. 

Pierce, Stone, and Olson are all nearly locks and will fight for POY (with Olson as favorite of course), so long as they stay healthy.    There are so many solid seniors this year, a few (Rose?  Taylor?  Jones?  Hopkins?  Weitzen?) will definitely get left out.

B. Ellis from Bates looks like nearly a sure thing for ROY. 

Speaking of Pierce and Black, question for Tufts fans ... Black has another year of eligibility even though he is a senior, and Pierce I believe has two even though he is a junior ... are either planning on sticking around as grad students at Tufts? 

On another note, this page mentions a guy playing for Williams next year:

http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.com/news/article/261/Huckins-Rouse-Invitational-Tournament-Event-Recap.php

A different page on the same site notes that MIT is getting an impact 6'10 guy to sign on, as well as a shooter.  Sounds like Bartolotta might be getting some help just in time for his senior year. 

Good first semester for NESCAC ... lots of junior/senior-dominated teams playing with a sense of urgency.  Only Wesleyan and Bates appear to be in rebuilding mode this year. 

[hoopjunkie]

I think we all have a long way to go . Some early big numbers by some unknowns will not effect the solid players in the league like the seniors mentioned . I don`t think anyone is a lock at this point including Olson , Stone & Pierce .
Do you all agree with me that alot depend on the overall play & records of your team or is it individual play?

[nescac hoops]

I think we all have a long way to go . Some early big numbers by some unknowns will not effect the solid players in the league like the seniors mentioned . I don`t think anyone is a lock at this point including Olson , Stone & Pierce .
Do you all agree with me that alot depend on the overall play & records of your team or is it individual play?

For me, I think record matters which is why I have two Ephs represented. They are undefeated, so I think somebody has to be playing well and I think the two most impressive have been Geoghegan and Shalvoy. Obviously, we have a long way to go but I thought it was a good "end of the season" wrap-up. At the very least, it saves us from posters like frank uible having something to weigh in on.

[eclinchy]

Nescac hoops,

Excellent posts here.  I think you hit the nail on the head here about a few things -- I agree that Pierce is the best player in the league, I agree that Geohegan deserves a lot of recognition at this point, and I think that you made some excellent not-so-obvious second team choices (Harris, Black, Jones).

My questions/general musings:

-Is it possible that Olson isn't the POY favorite?  A couple months ago everyone said he was an obvious shoo-in -- it might be too drastic to lower him from "obvious choice" to "runner-up."  I ask because I'm biased, since I've seen a lot more of Pierce than Olson.  But with how ridiculous Pierce has been through eight games, he seems tough to deny.

-Those more familiar with Williams than myself: would it be unfair to call Shalvoy's first half a bit of an underperformance?  He's the captain and PG for an undefeated team, but individually, his numbers look questionable.  Scoring is down, shooting percentages are down, assist-turnover numbers are worse.  I'm confused.  Is he more deserving of a second team spot than Rose?

-What is the deal with Colby?  I don't think anyone expects them to do anything too great this season, but they do have four of the top six scorers in the league right now, including Choice who's second only to Pierce.  Should there be more than one Mule on our lists?  I don't know how to interpret all the gaudy numbers... haven't followed that team too closely.

-I definitely think Jones is the second-best player on his team right now.  Any controversy about him not starting, or is there a good reason for that that I'm not seeing?

-Hmm.  Ellis looks outstanding, but "sure thing" sounds a bit strong for the ROY discussion.  Ashton Coghlan at Middlebury and Michael Russell at Colby would have a bone to pick with you.  (I also think that Sam Mason's as talented as any of them, and he'd prove it if he got more time.  But I digress.)

-Andrew Harris at Middlebury and Andrew Hippert at Bowdoin look really, really similar.  Am I allowed to pick one and not the other?  I'm leaning no.

-This Weitzen/Black issue is killing me.  Nescac hoops, I agree that they deserve it, and I also think there's no room for three Jumbos in ten spots, so you have to pick one.  And it's kinda impossible.  They're both absolutely vital to that team... on one hand, with no true center, Tufts has to rely on its two-headed post presence in Pierce/Weitzen to be successful.  Pierce wouldn't be nearly as good without Weitzen by his side.  On the other hand, Black has been doing a superb job getting them both the ball, and his own scoring ability has really been on display recently.  I guess it's Black by a hair... he's been so athletic and so versatile (second in the league in both assists and steals) that I can't say no.

That leaves me with:

First Team
Jon Pierce, Tufts
Andrew Olson, Amherst
Charles Stone, Conn. College
Russ Martin, Trinity
Adam Choice, Colby

Second Team
Joe Geohegan, Williams
Chris Rose, Williams
Jeremy Black, Tufts
Robert Taylor, Trinity
Brandon Jones, Amherst

Honorable mention: Weitzen, Shalvoy, Cutrone, Hippert, Harris

[formerbant10]

Just remember that there can be ties in the voting which would mean more than 5 players on a team.

[nescac hoops]

-Those more familiar with Williams than myself: would it be unfair to call Shalvoy's first half a bit of an underperformance?  He's the captain and PG for an undefeated team, but individually, his numbers look questionable.  Scoring is down, shooting percentages are down, assist-turnover numbers are worse.  I'm confused.  Is he more deserving of a second team spot than Rose?

What is the deal with Colby?  I don't think anyone expects them to do anything too great this season, but they do have four of the top six scorers in the league right now, including Choice who's second only to Pierce.  Should there be more than one Mule on our lists?  I don't know how to interpret all the gaudy numbers... haven't followed that team too closely.

Eclinchy,

I haven't seen the Ephs play yet this year but the numbers that Shalvoy put up at the end of last season were absurd and there is no way he could keep those up over an entire season. That being said, his overall numbers are down but still respectable at around 12pts. and 4 assists a game while shooting 43% from the field and 87% from the line. While I haven't seen the Ephs this year, word on the street is that when they are really clicking on offense (though not always shooting well) and players are getting good strong looks. All 5 Eph starters are averaging double figures which I think is quite remarkable for a team that doesn't focus so much on the run-n'-gun. From what I've heard, Shalvoy is really distributing the ball around the floor well and if they had the hockey/soccer (?) assist stat where you get the assist that leads to the assist, I think Shalvoy's numbers might look more impressive. Either way, I think he is doing a good job of running a very well balanced offensive attack.

My skepticism with Colby is the same that I had about Tufts stats last year. The run-n'-gun style that produces a ton of points also gives up a ton of points - both Tufts and Colby are last in the league in defensive points allowed. I have no problem with the system if it produces wins (in other words, you are more successful at the stlye of play than the opponent) but you will never see stats like that from Williams players because they simply don't play that style, which is fine. Tufts has obviously had some big wins this season but last year I saw some of their stats as being "inflated" due to their style of play that yielded a couple really bad losses. This year has been a different story so I'm quite impressed with the numbers Black, Pierce, etc. are putting up because they are winning. If Colby continues to win when they play against strong competition (NESCAC play), I will feel more inclined to give them more than one all-NESCAC player. Quite frankly, most half decent NESCAC players could put up 15+ points a game if they could "cherry pick" and play no defense and lose, thus the importance of a team's record in selecting players. I'm not saying this is what Colby is doing but time will tell if this run-n'-gun system is really working or if these stats are just "inflated".

These points bring me to my last one....if somebody wanted to argue that Kevin Snyder (Williams) has been better than Rose/Shalvoy and should deserve the 2nd team nod over Rose or Shalvoy, I couldn't argue against that. He is the Eph's defensive stopper on the third best defensive team in the conference, averages 2 less point less a game than Rose/Shlavoy but is shooting 50+% from the 2pt. and 3pt. land and has taken 41 total shots to Rose's 79. Impressive.