MBB: NESCAC

[NortheastHoopsGuru]

baseball- the move has actually been considered before, not necessarily to the Ivy League but for Amherst to bump up into scholarship level, most likely D-2 on the onset. The main problem they face is their lack of resources in terms of facilities. D-2 standards nowadays require a much larger gymnasium, weight room, training rooms, etc. Amherst has a good thing going right now, being a force in the NESCAC under Hixon, and still essentially getting scholarship level basketball players.

[middguy]

If Trin loses to Amherst and Midd and Bowdoin both sweep, Midd and Bowdoin will be 7-2 and Trinity will be 6-3. Since Midd beat Bowdoin they will get the #2 seed, Bowdoin the #3 and Trinity the #4 in this scenario.

[formerbant10]

Middguy,

If they both split this weekend, they're all 6-3 (saying Amherst beats Trin....anything but a given) and 1-1 versus the other 2.  Makes everything a whole lot messier.

[JeffRookie2]

baseball- the move has actually been considered before, not necessarily to the Ivy League but for Amherst to bump up into scholarship level, most likely D-2 on the onset. The main problem they face is their lack of resources in terms of facilities. D-2 standards nowadays require a much larger gymnasium, weight room, training rooms, etc. Amherst has a good thing going right now, being a force in the NESCAC under Hixon, and still essentially getting scholarship level basketball players.

There is also no way amherst would go anywhere without williams and probably even wesleyan.

[nescac1]

Brutal loss by Williams to Tufts ... the weird bizarro season from last year continues, where last year the team showed they had arrived with a big win over Tufts in the NESCAC tourney, this year's team cemented its collapse with a terrible blow-out at Tufts.  I feel like teams have totally figured out what Williams is doing.  The motion offense just seems like a bunch of guys running around the perimeter wasting energy.  I don't really see it developing good shots, the Ephs rarely get open 3's except in transition, they didn't even bother TRYING to shoot from 3 agains the Jumbos.  The Ephs have a size and talent advantage inside over almost every team they play.  They should be pounding it in to Geoghegan, Weisbrot, and Whittington on most possessions, and let them try to score or get fouled, and kick it out when doubled.  As is, the Ephs run an offense that requires a lot of guys who can penetrate to the hole off the dribble and hit difficult long-range 3's, two things this year's squad simply cannot do.  And on defense, Paulsen HAS to scrap the match-up zone.  Teams were unprepared for it last year (especially Tufts) so it was pretty effective, but everytime it's been used this year teams got easy look after easy look, especially Tufts and Bowdoin.  Better to just play man to man and take your chances.   The team has lost a lot of confidence and Paulsen didn't even call a time out when Tufts made its big run against Williams, like he just wanted the game to end quicker. 

This season is pretty much done for the Ephs, and it would be nice to end on a high note with a few home wins this weekend, but there is no way they will repeat the miracle run in the NESCAC's ... that team was playing at a very high level before the tourney, this squad is not.  I just hope Paulsen adjusts his philosophy before next year, when the Ephs will have a potentially dominant inside game, considering all the elite big men graduating from other schools (Trin, Conn, Amherst and Bowdoin in particular), and with Geoghegan, Whittington (who will provide real match-up problems for other 4's in the league with a little more seasoning), Dodson (needs strength but a very smooth player for his height), Meyer all returning and the addition of Emerson ..., but no really consistent, proven perimeter scorers or guys who can get to the hoop off the dribble. 

Oh, and eclinchy, regarding the football comment, Williams has been as dominant over Amherst in football in recent years as Amherst has over Williams in hoops, so I was thinking mostly of Amherst in my "at least we have football ..." comment.   But Williams will be an elite team yet again in that sport next year, regardless of losing Lucey, as they return almost all the other key guys. 

[The Historian]

baseball- the move has actually been considered before, not necessarily to the Ivy League but for Amherst to bump up into scholarship level, most likely D-2 on the onset.

This is just silly.  Perhaps it's been discussed late at night by drunk students wishing they had an athletic scholarship.  But I guarantee you that the Presidents and Boards of Trustees at Amherst (or Williams or pretty much any other NESCAC school, for that matter) have not considered offering athletic scholarships or moving out of DIII any time in recent history.

Quite the opposite, in fact.  If anything, there's been discussion about trying to de-emphasize the role of athletics at these schools.  And there's absolutely zero chance that Amherst and Williams would move away from their need-based and need-blind financial aid policies.

[eclinchy]

You'd think everyone would have learned their lesson about all these "assuming Amherst beats Trinity..." scenarios last year.  Oh well.  Those that don't learn their history...

[walzy31]

Lord Jeff Nation respects Trinity basketball. Last year's graduating class went 111-13 with a national title and two nescac titles over their four years, but their record against the Bants was 3-3 including  the first loss last year putting an end to their 23-0 undefeated run.

I think Trinity is the 2nd best team in the conference, but with losing two star perimeter players like P Martin and K Clarke (who can put up a combined 50+ points and 10 assists in a night) is a lot to leave on the shoulders of P. Hasiuk and I Fels.

The preliminary line is:
Amherst -6.5 Vs. Trinity

[fpc85]

I feel like teams have totally figured out what Williams is doing.  The motion offense just seems like a bunch of guys running around the perimeter wasting energy.  I don't really see it developing good shots, the Ephs rarely get open 3's except in transition, they didn't even bother TRYING to shoot from 3 agains the Jumbos.  The Ephs have a size and talent advantage inside over almost every team they play.  They should be pounding it in to Geoghegan, Weisbrot, and Whittington on most possessions, and let them try to score or get fouled, and kick it out when doubled.   And on defense, Paulsen HAS to scrap the match-up zone.   The team has lost a lot of confidence and Paulsen didn't even call a time out when Tufts made its big run against Williams, like he just wanted the game to end quicker. 

  I just hope Paulsen adjusts his philosophy before next year, when the Ephs will have a potentially dominant inside game, considering all the elite big men graduating from other schools (Trin, Conn, Amherst and Bowdoin in particular), and with Geoghegan, Whittington (who will provide real match-up problems for other 4's in the league with a little more seasoning), Dodson (needs strength but a very smooth player for his height), Meyer all returning and the addition of Emerson ..., but no really consistent, proven perimeter scorers or guys who can get to the hoop off the dribble. 

Oh, and eclinchy, regarding the football comment, Williams has been as dominant over Amherst in football in recent years as Amherst has over Williams in hoops, so I was thinking mostly of Amherst in my "at least we have football ..." comment.   But Williams will be an elite team yet again in that sport next year, regardless of losing Lucey, as they return almost all the other key guys. 

hmmm..we don't like the job paulsen is doing anymore? leave football out of it

[nescac1]

Paulsen is obviously a great coach, you don't win a national title and come close to winning two otherwise, and he was able to work magic at the end of last year with a far less talented team, but I just feel that right now, he has to tweak his system a little to account for his personnel.   It's certainly not his fault that a lot of his shooters have really struggled this year, but at a certain point, you have to realize what the team's strengths are, and not just be resigned to losing whenever you have an off shooting night, especially when the team does have some solid interior players that they could use more.  Just as Dave Hixon has received some criticism for certain strategies despite all his success, Paulsen should not be immune either.  Indeed, Amherst really only took off this year once Hixon realized that Walters and Jones should both start and be his go-to guys.   And I always thought that match-up zone was a gimmick defense; it worked last year with the element of surprise, but NESCAC coaches are smart, and were ready for it this year, and unless you have extremely quick, long and athletic players (the Ephs do not), that type of defense will always give up a LOT Of open looks.

[fpc85]

Paulsen is obviously a great coach, you don't win a national title and come close to winning two otherwise, and he was able to work magic at the end of last year with a far less talented team, but I just feel that right now, he has to tweak his system a little to account for his personnel.   It's certainly not his fault that a lot of his shooters have really struggled this year, but at a certain point, you have to realize what the team's strengths are, and not just be resigned to losing whenever you have an off shooting night, especially when the team does have some solid interior players that they could use more.  Just as Dave Hixon has received some criticism for certain strategies despite all his success, Paulsen should not be immune either.  Indeed, Amherst really only took off this year once Hixon realized that Walters and Jones should both start and be his go-to guys.   And I always thought that match-up zone was a gimmick defense; it worked last year with the element of surprise, but NESCAC coaches are smart, and were ready for it this year, and unless you have extremely quick, long and athletic players (the Ephs do not), that type of defense will always give up a LOT Of open looks.

great post...paulsen is a great coach. i am sure this slide has taken him by surprise. i watched the tufts game on jumbocast and the ephs looked uninspired. he will adjust all good coaches do. i just hope that it happens next year  .

[frank uible]

nescac1:  Please communicate to Mike Whalen your assurance that despite the absence of Pat Lucey Williams will have an elite football team next year. He may have been losing some sleep over the proposition. Of course, if your concept of elite is a 5-3 record, your communication probably will not relieve Mike of his insomnia.

[speedy]

baseball- the move has actually been considered before, not necessarily to the Ivy League but for Amherst to bump up into scholarship level, most likely D-2 on the onset. The main problem they face is their lack of resources in terms of facilities. D-2 standards nowadays require a much larger gymnasium, weight room, training rooms, etc. Amherst has a good thing going right now, being a force in the NESCAC under Hixon, and still essentially getting scholarship level basketball players.

Huh?? Rumor has it that the Amherst president (along with a handful of his NESCAC peers) is pushing for the creation of a D4 and the moving of all NESCAC schools to D4. 

[Pat Coleman]

Haven't heard the NESCAC being among those PUSHING for D-IV but I'd expect those schools would be candidates for it.

The UAA and NCAC seem to be driving the D-IV discussion. Not sure there's enough other teams that would make the jump, though.

[JeffRookie2]

[quote author=a big fan link=topic=4491.msg861881#msg861881
This was a persuasive arguement before 1987 (before there was a 3 point shot).   However your arguement does not recognize the reward the game gives to the 3 point shot. 

Would you rather have a 3 point shooter who averages 36% take more shots in a game or an inside the arc player averaging 52% take more shots?   ( The 3 point shooter will score 108 points on 100 shots.  The 52% shooter will score 104 points on 100 shots).

If you take into account the effect of the three point shot and look at scoring efficiency of some of the players mentioned the raw shooting pecentage is a very weak arguement.  (stats as of this morning):

245 points on 261 shots -  93.9 points/100 shots        (Adam Choice)
217 points on 236 shots -  91.9 points/100 shots        (Robert Taylor)
225 points on 231 shots -  97.4 points/100 shots        (Bryan Wholey)
208 points on 215 shots -  96.7 points/100 shots        (Chris Rose)
163 points on 167 shots -  97.6 points/100 shots        (Andrew Harris)

When it comes to putting points on the scoreboard, Chris Rose is certainly as proficent as some of the other players that have been mentioned for all conference honors. 
[/quote]

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond to this, but your arguement that Rose's rather pedestrian 36.1% from behind the arc (as of today) makes up for his terrible overall % and free throw % is laughable. Maybe you are unfamiliar with penalty shots and the fact that 3-point shooters are rarely fouled? I like how your stats dont include points from foul shooting. Using your own criteria of points per shot, (including points from free throws) here is the ranking of every player in the nescac who has taken 100 shots or more this season:

Points Per Shot:
Jones(Amherst)- 1.67
Baskauskas(Amherst)- 1.62
Sargeantson(Bowdoin)- 1.62
Aaron Gallant(Tufts)- 1.58
Mosley(CC) - 1.56
Hopkins(Amherst)- 1.52
Bernier(CC) - 1.51
Young(CC) - 1.50
Ellis(Bates)- 1.50
Smith(Midd)- 1.49
Edwards(Midd)- 1.47
Martin (Trin) -1.47
Olson(Amherst)- 1.46
Walters(Amherst)- 1.46
Snyder(Williams) - 1.45
Russell(Colby) - 1.44
Fleigel (Bowdoin)1.43
Wheeler(Amherst)- 1.43
Winters(Wesleyan)- 1.42
Geohegan(Williams) - 1.41
Pierce (Tufts) – 1.40
Karis(CC) - 1.40
Cutrone(Colby) - 1.39
Rowe(Trin) - 1.39
Choice(Colby) -1.37
Beyel(Tufts)- 1.36
Coghlan(Midd)- 1.34
Grayson(Wesleyan)- 1.34
Weitzen(Tufts)- 1.33
Jackson(Bowdoin) 1.33
Stone(CC) – 1.32
Shalvoy(Williams) - 1.30
Halloran(Bates)- 1.30
Hippert(Bowdoin)- 1.30
Black(Tufts)- 1.30
Jimmy O'Keefe(Bates) 1.28
Wholey(Bates)- 1.23
Hasiuk(Trin) - 1.23
Ford(Trin) - 1.20
Dudley(Midd)-1.20
Taylor(Trin) - 1.19
Harris(Midd)- 1.19
Pelletier (Wesleyan) - 1.19
Ryan O'Keefe(Tufts) – 1.17
Chris Wilson(Bates)- 1.16
Aaron Westbrooks(Trin) - 1.11
Scura(Wesleyan)- 1.09
Rose(Williams) 1.06
Simpson(Colby) - 1.05
Rudin(Midd)- 1.03
Kaminer(Wesleyan)- .90

As you see, Chris Rose ranks a pathetic 4th to last. Unlike Rudin, he does very little else to contribute to his team. Congrats to Jeremy Kaminer for losing this ranking handily and for being the only player to score less than 1 point per attempt.