MBB: NESCAC

[JeffRookie2]

Talked to Pat after the game yesterday, he seemed pretty unhappy that we won.

Dunno why you would think that, except ...

He said that we would be insufferable all summer.

Yes, that I did. And so far your fellow fans have done little to disprove that suggestion. But didn't I also tell you that I thought we needed MORE Amherst fans on the board?

Sorry, talked to several Amherst fans over the course of the weekend and it's hard to remember which was which conversation.

Here is your acknowledging, then trying to spin, that conversation. Don't lie, Pat, I hear its grounds for getting kicked off the board.

Your mood after Amherst won was pretty darn sour. There were also some incidents reported about your asking insulting questions to the amherst players at the press conference that I was not there for, but which other posters reported. All of these things are very disturbing from the person who runs a site that is proported to be the authority on division III basketball. I cant imagine how people would react if a bunch of old, curmudeony analysts on espn came out with an all decade team with 1/3 of the players from pac-10 and especially UCLA because they pined for the days of John Wooden. Get with the times, the NESCAC and the UAA have the best talent in Div. III.

[Pat Coleman]

Yes. What this says is that Amherst fans would be insufferable. It's not anything against the institution, the 2006-07 basketball team or the program. I never said I have a grudge against Amherst. What this shows is your grudge against me, which you're entitled to have. You're just not entitled to put words in my mouth.

[Pat Coleman]

You keep editing your posts. Hard to know what I'm responding to.

You and I laughed about it during the conversation. How is that sour?

Give me a break. And I'm sorry some people didn't like my one question. That's unfortunate that the things that are interesting to a national audience are so ridiculous to ask about.

[JeffRookie2]

You keep editing your posts. Hard to know what I'm responding to.

You and I laughed about it during the conversation. How is that sour?

Give me a break.

I don't remember any laughing. What you dont understand is that things like the way you responded to our winning are grounds for suspicion. If there was nothing else to back up this suspicion, I would have no problem with it. Unfortunately, insights into your voting record and the strange balance of the all-decade team do a lot to reinforce the suspicion.

[Pat Coleman]

You have pegged this solely to last year's tournament run, however, which doesn't explain our decade-long pattern of naming CCIW and WIAC players to our All-American team. Your argument just doesn't make sense. If it's a conspiracy, then why did it exist 10 years ago? Those All-American teams from the dawn of our site helped shape this All-Decade Team far more than some conversation you can't even recall correctly and a question that some people didn't want to hear.

[sac]

Congrats to Michael Nogelo on makeing the all-decade team, I saw him singlehandidly keep Williams in a ball game with an outstanding UW-Platteville in the 1998 Final Four.  Special talent at the D3 level.

[JeffRookie2]

You have pegged this solely to last year's tournament run, however, which doesn't explain our decade-long pattern of naming CCIW and WIAC players to our All-American team. Your argument just doesn't make sense. If it's a conspiracy, then why did it exist 10 years ago? Those All-American teams from the dawn of our site helped shape this All-Decade Team far more than some conversation you can't even recall correctly and a question that some people didn't want to hear.

A second ago you denied that the conversation even happened, now all of a sudden you have a better recollection of it than I do?? Look, all I'm saying is 1) numerous people besides myself have noticed ill-will from you towards the NESCAC 2) in your voting for the top 25, in your all-decade team, in your not giving Olson a share of POY (even though other major authorities did), there is evidence of a bias against amherst and the NESCAC 3) it is reasonable to conclude that 2 happens because of 1

[Pat Coleman]

Rook: You tried to claim I said I had a grudge against Amherst.

That conversation never happened.

If you had said I had said Amherst fans would be insufferable, then I would have agreed, because that conversation happened.

Hard to believe I thought Amherst fans would be insufferable. What would make me think that?

[nescac1]

SAC, shame on you for interrupting the riveting he said-she said between Pat Coleman and Jeff Rookie.  Although I must admit, now my curiosity is piqued, what is the infamous question that so infuriated Lord Jeff Nation (or at least Lord Jeff Rookie Nation)?  

And Jeff Rookie, being far from a rookie, you should have learned by now, on this site, the first rule of karma points (to the extent you care about them, and I'm not sure why you do), is do not talk about karma points.  

Glad to see the all decade team up today ... I'll take any reminder of happier times for the Eph hoops program, after the last two weeks!

[Pat Coleman]

The question was something along the lines of whether there was an extra sense of satisfaction from winning a championship, having one to match Williams. If Hope were to win one I would ask them the same question about Calvin.

And Dan Wheeler, if my memory serves, answered the question, graciously.

[sac]

The question was something along the lines of whether there was an extra sense of satisfaction from winning a championship, having one to match Williams. If Hope were to win one I would ask them the same question about Calvin.

And Dan Wheeler, if my memory serves, answered the question, graciously.

That would be a question I would hope would come a few days or weeks later, not within minutes of winning a National Championship.

I don't think anyone's ever asked Coach K if he felt a certain level of satisfaction having a title to match No. Carolina's at least not right after winning one.

[Pat Coleman]

It only needs to be asked the first time. After that it's not nearly as relevant. (As in, I wouldn't bother to ask Hope that question after a second national title if that brought them even with Calvin.)

But I appreciate your stance, and particularly the non-combative way you made your stance known.

[sac]

I just know that when I was watching Hope/UW Platteville I certainly wasn't thinking about Calvin at all.

If I were a coach I'd be a little surprised by that question and probably wouldn't know what to say.

[eclinchy]

Does Williams lose out and miss the NESCAC Tourney?

Ahem.

Tufts and Wesleyan get the 7 and 8 seeds if:
-Williams and Colby go 0-2, or
-Williams goes 0-2, Colby beats Bates but loses to Tufts, Tufts beats Bowdoin, or
-Tufts and Wesleyan both go 2-0, Colby beats Bates (in this case, Williams/Conn would be irrelevant), or
-(and this is where it gets complicated) Tufts beats Bowdoin, Bates beats Colby, Wesleyan goes 2-0, Colby beats Tufts, Conn beats Williams, Amherst beats Trinity, and Bowdoin beats Bates.  Tiebreakers are confusing sometimes.

Wesleyan and Colby get the 7 and 8 if:
-Williams goes 0-2, Middlebury beats Wesleyan, Tufts beats Bowdoin but loses to Colby, or
-Bowdoin beats Tufts, Colby goes 2-0, Williams goes 0-2, or
-Tufts beats Bowdoin, Wesleyan and Colby both go 2-0, Conn beats Williams.

These are fun.

[Friar T]

Wow... I've never seen such a case of "He Said, She Said" in my life!

JeffRookie, your questioning of the All-Decade team is absurd! Considering the fact that you NEVER saw 90% of these guys play, how do you justify comparing them with Amherst guys. Remind yourself that this criticism is coming from AN AMHERST FAN! I only saw a few of the guys on this list play (I personally think that Keelan Amelianovich got dogged, that dude was gross), but I know enough to realize that if as good as I thought they were, they're no higher than the third-team, these other dudes must have been pretty damn good. I mean Devean George is still in the league for God's sake...

Let's throw in there that a good chunk of All-American consideration comes from overall team success. Has Amherst had some great teams? Yes. But until about four years ago, none had been to a Final Four. I wonder how many of the players on this list played in 0 Final Fours? Odds aren't too high...

As for the rest of the accusations, who cares? Pat do you really feel the need to defend yourself against accusations from a guy that most of us find pretty believable to be hard to remember meeting? Let's face it, Amherst is pretty easy to hate. They're elite in most things they do and reject more applicants than nearly every school in existance. In a few years in the Amherst environment, I even at times found the self-proclaimed Lord Jeff Nation to be aggrivating and not half the amazing fan base they thought they were.

All the same I love the Jeffs and do see the bias against them on this site as a whole. Bottomline Pat, this is your universe. You can be biased against anyone you want! You've created the greatest resource for Division III basketball the world has, but you find it necessary to use BOLD LETTERING to quash the rumors starting by some guy who contrivesy is laughable and can't be validated?

Have some self-confidence and security and stop taking up board space with your defensive manuvers, expert witnesses and glove-not-fitting theories.

To see Williams not make the tourney would be hilarious.