MBB: NESCAC

CCsalive · February 21, 2008, 09:56:52 AM

FriarT- If you only knew what it was like to travel to Amherst for that game to watch Stone sit down 8 minutes in. It was kind of like the time my parents traveled a long way to watch a team I was coaching only to watch me get ejected 10 minutes after they arrived...I know what you guys are thinking...2nd graders should never be witness to their coach getting two techs...

nescachoopsfan · February 21, 2008, 10:58:21 AM

regarding mike walsh,

i'm glad to see him get some credit for the success middlebury is having. he is a tremendous leader and competitor. i have seen every nescac school play and i can say middlebury is not a top teir team as far as talent goes. but walsh gets his whole team going. he plays extremely hard, crashes the offensive and defensive glass, and does all the dirty work. although smith might grab a lot of the accolades because he has the rebounding stats, im sure he would attribute his intensity on the glass to walsh.

Friar T · February 21, 2008, 12:12:38 PM

Quote from: CCsalive on February 21, 2008, 09:56:52 AM
FriarT- If you only knew what it was like to travel to Amherst for that game to watch Stone sit down 8 minutes in. It was kind of like the time my parents traveled a long way to watch a team I was coaching only to watch me get ejected 10 minutes after they arrived...I know what you guys are thinking...2nd graders should never be witness to their coach getting two techs...

Outstanding analogy CC. Stone is a hell of a player who has had a solid NESCAC career, I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm glad the boys in purple won't have to face him any longer.

If a second grader can't see that a ref is jobbing you, what in God's name are we doing with the youth of America?

CCsalive · February 21, 2008, 01:49:20 PM

I couldn't agree more. There is a difference between sportsmanship and recognizing a lame duck ref and letting him know it. Kids cannot learn the difference at a young enough age.

While we're at it...did you guys see the funny sign at the Indiana game that read, "Hunting accidents, throwing chairs, choking players, who cares about phone calls!"

Back to the NESCAC

I'd love to see Bates win. What a statement they've made without Stockwell and Ray.
Who has more pressure to win in the Midd vs Williams game? Midd at home or Williams to defend their legacy and their tourney crown? Seriously, how the hell did they win the NESCAC tourney last year?
Go CC!

aaabbb · February 21, 2008, 02:25:48 PM

love NESCAC; played Ivies. Amherst - great team - playing at their best wins 3, maybe 4 games in Ivies....playing at their best. More likely 1 or 2 this year or last. Most years none. Not a knock on Amherst or NESCAC - just is what it is.

booyakasha · February 21, 2008, 03:29:45 PM

aaabbb

I think you're wrong. I believe the Amherst teams of late (and Williams earlier in the decade) would not only compete in the Ivy League but find themselves towards the upper echelon. Maybe not as strong as Penn or Cornell (or Princeton of old), but very competitive nonetheless. I will cite two examples:

First, check you archives and you will find that in 2003 Williams handled a perennial NCAA tournament team in Holy Cross. I think you will agree the Patriot League is comparable to the Ivy League. Williams went up eight at the half and maintained a comfortable margin throughout the second half, resulting in a 7 point victory for the Ephs.

Second, if you check out Brown's archives, you will see Adolphe Coulibaly (sp?) starting in 11 of 25 games for a mediocre Ivy in 2003 (they went 5-9 in the conference that year). After transferring to Amherst, he wasn't able to secure a starting spot in the rotation for the Lord Jeff's.

This is an interesting topic, and I do maintain that the best of the NESCAC would be at the very least competitive in the Ivy League, as assembled today, but I don't know if it would be possible to maintain their competitive edge if Amherst or Williams was to make a theoretical switch to the Ivy League. Today, the top NESCAC schools benefit from being among the best division 3 teams in the country, and it is a big recruiting draw for kids to be able to compete for a national championship, as well as receiving a top notch education. If they were to make the move, they would lose this draw and become just another bottom of the pack Ivy Leaguer (for hoops at least).

booyakasha · February 21, 2008, 03:31:11 PM

Also, that Williams victory over HC was played in Worcester.

Rick Vaughn · February 21, 2008, 03:36:46 PM

That Williams win was very impressive, but Crotty, Coffin, and Abba played even more out of their minds than usual. Even with a team that good, Paulsen himself said that Williams would lose 9 out of 10 games to Holy Cross. It's hard to predict where they would end up that would likely put one of the best teams in NESCAC history in the middle of the pack of the Patriot league.

Pat Coleman · February 21, 2008, 03:44:39 PM

Quote from: lefrakenstein on February 20, 2008, 03:04:15 PM
Quote from: lefrakenstein on February 20, 2008, 02:58:20 PM
(They also did this against Bates, MIT, Lasell, Elms and other week teams).

Sorry, I clearly meant weak, not week. Embarrassing.

Pat, what is the rational, if you dont mind my asking, behind preventing new posters from editing their posts? Wouldn't the site be better on the whole if everyone could correct their typos?

We have had problems with new posters abusing the privilege. I know you're not REALLY a new poster, rather an old poster under a new name, but you still need to go through the initiation process the same way everyone else did.

eclinchy · February 21, 2008, 03:54:35 PM

Quote from: nescac1 on February 21, 2008, 07:55:47 AM
Boston Globe article on Mike Walsh of Midd:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/02/21/switch_to_forward_is_right_for_walsh/

kinda random considering 4-5 guys on the team score more than him ...

Not random at all. It's what the Globe does -- they're a Boston paper, so they write features about Boston-area natives. Same thing they did for Brian Ellis last week -- Walsh is from Needham, and Ellis if I recall correctly is from Braintree? Makes sense.

Pretty bad factual error four words into the article though... Walsh and Harris are co-captains, not tri-captains. Yikes, Globe.

Also it's really weird that the Globe keeps trying to scoop the Daily for NESCAC stories. It's our conference... back off. Here's my preview of Middlebury's weeekend...

BillWalton · February 21, 2008, 04:27:44 PM

Quote from: Rick Vaughn on February 21, 2008, 03:36:46 PM
That Williams win was very impressive, but Crotty, Coffin, and Abba played even more out of their minds than usual. Even with a team that good, Paulsen himself said that Williams would lose 9 out of 10 games to Holy Cross. It's hard to predict where they would end up that would likely put one of the best teams in NESCAC history in the middle of the pack of the Patriot league.

I would say that is Paulsen being modest. I was at the game, and I have played against Holy Cross players. Year in and year out Holy Cross has been considered a tournament team (this year ESPN ranked them around 40th preseason) Also RIC had a pre-season scrimmage against Holy Cross this year in which they won by one point. Now I agree that this isn't the norm, but a strong case can be made for the upper NESCAC teams (depending on the year) would have a decent season in the Ivy League or Patriot League. The better players being recruited by top NESCAC schools tend to look at the Ivy or Patriot league as well soy ou can argue the leagues attract a similar player (kid who is interested in academics but doesn't have the athleticism or size to play big time d1). That being said it is usually not the entire Amherst, Williams or Trinity (etc) roster that could make an Ivy or Patriot league team. So if they were to play in those leagues for an entire season it, night in and night out seeing teams that have a whole roster of a NESCAC team's top 2-3 guys, maybe the NESCAC team wouldn't fair so well.
I go back and forth but I finally fall on the side that I think the top NESCAC schools would surprise many people
sorry for the long post, I gotta go jump in my van and catch up to the tour

eclinchy · February 22, 2008, 12:28:52 AM

Eight hours, no posts? Seriously? C'mon guys... it's tournament time.

fpc85 · February 22, 2008, 09:52:10 AM

The usual posters have teams that are down this year. I think the jeffs play has made this tourney hard to get excited about.

NY Hoopster · February 22, 2008, 10:54:36 AM

eclinchy;

Thought I'd help you fill the gaps and help stifle the yawns from the Amherst crowd.

I thought early in the season that this might be the year for Middlebury, and fellow posters disagreed because of the strength of the league this year. Then Andrew Harris got injured, and things looked bleak for Middlebury. But Ashton Coughlan got a lot of playing time as a result, and from the one game I saw him play vs. Colby, he was almost impossible to cover. Now that Harris is back, and has had time to recondition, Middlebury to my mind looks even better than they looked at the beginning of the season.

Middlebury has the size with Smith and Walsh to fight off Amherst's post players. Rudin is a great unselfish point guard who always keeps the offense moving. Edwards is a very good all around player who is not going to allow Amherst or any other team to shoot perimeter shots over him. And Harris and Coughlin supply dangerous firepower. I think that Middlebury is in the best position to knock off Amherst, of any team in the league. I think they will get past Williams without a lot of difficulty.

toad22 · February 22, 2008, 11:32:18 AM

I will be surprised if Midd gets by the Ephs with little difficulty. Williams has certainly underperformed my expectations for them this year, but they have a lot of talent and they may well come out of their slump on Saturday. They played so poorly vs Midd and lost by only 3. A decent performance by Shalvoy, Rose and Weisbrot will make Saturday's game a close contest. If I were Middlebury fans, I wouldn't look past the Ephs on Saturday.