MBB: American Southwest Conference

[mcmfan]

The scoreboard indicates a final score tonight of MC 55, VWU 81.  Looks like it was pretty ugly for us.  Anyone follow the game?  What happened?

[chocsrock34]

MC played their worst game I have ever seen. But you have to factor in that we played 1000 miles from home against the host team when we deserved the hosting bid. Also, the officiating was ugly. They didn't start calling it fair till we were down by 20. If we had played in Clinton the outcome would have been much different.

I would like to personally thank the NCAA selections committee for ending the Chocs season.

[golden_dome]

The scoreboard indicates a final score tonight of MC 55, VWU 81.  Looks like it was pretty ugly for us.  Anyone follow the game?  What happened?

I wanted to take a little while before posting about the game, tough night for the ASC with both the Choctaws and Howard Payne women losing. First off, anyone who was at the game and did not think Virginia Wesleyan was a much better team today would be crazy. They played tremendously and MC was equally bad.

An objective person at the game would say VWC played much more physical than MC and the Choctaws did not handle it well. But it was just their night, Ton Ton Balenga is 1-7 from three but the rest of the team goes 8-13 when they shot 36% for the year. Three role players combined to go 14-18 and score 37 points. The first 15 minutes looked like a draw then they couldn't miss. In the second half the Crowd got into it as VWC hit 18-25 shots and 6-8 three's. But to their credit they kept getting open looks when few teams did that against MC this year.

Having said that, I have seen MC play all year and that is the worst I have seen them for whatever reason. I am not making excuses for them here, but anyone who thinks it isn't a different game if the Choctaws play in front of 3,500 people at home is also crazy. The fact that MC played terrible tonight doesn't change the fact the NCAA gave them the royal shaft for two years in a row.

I wish this drew the same fervor as the CCIW schools getting left out of the tourney did a few weeks ago. That made everyone ready to scrap the selection process, but little is mentioned of geographical proximity ahead of actual merit as a criteria. Everyone already knows how hard it is for DIII athletics to gain importance in the media. As someone who deals with the media in Mississippi, it is hard for me to convince them that the tournament is important when they find out the NCAA sends us to Virginia to save money on travel though they recognize themselves we earned the right to host. On this particular issue, the NCAA leads the charge in creating a perception that DIII is second rate, at least in this area of the country where great seasons are unrewarded to save a buck.

I hope Virginia Wesleyan wins it again and takes advantage of playing at home the rest of the way. It is great for our region. Our players were complimentary of their team and think they are the frontrunners to win it again, I can't argue after seeing them tonight. But it would still be nice to for once play one of these at home.

[Pat Coleman]

I promise if somebody on this board got a d3 game and paid for the travel ETBU would be there.

Amazingly, other schools in your league seem to get this done.

[Pat Coleman]

It's gonna be hard to make a claim like that on a 26-point loss, guys. I'm sure it would've been different at home in front of 3,500 fans but Mississippi College hasn't drawn more than 1,900 all year. That's

I think if the ASC goes and wins some national titles then the injustice will draw the same attention that the CCIW and WIAC get. Until then you will definitely get my sympathy but as I said on the show last week, I'm pretty jaded about the whole darn thing. 

[golden_dome]

It's gonna be hard to make a claim like that on a 26-point loss, guys. I'm sure it would've been different at home in front of 3,500 fans but Mississippi College hasn't drawn more than 1,900 all year. That's

I think if the ASC goes and wins some national titles then the injustice will draw the same attention that the CCIW and WIAC get. Until then you will definitely get my sympathy but as I said on the show last week, I'm pretty jaded about the whole darn thing. 

Pat,
  We drew 2,500 for the game against Occidental and the same last year to open the regional. I feel sure it would increase substantially to finally get a sectional.
   I understand where you are coming from though, but it was 15 midway through the second half and 19 with a minute left, I don't think that really makes much of a difference though whether it is 15 or 26. By the last 3-4 minutes both teams are playing players who never play.
   But that's the thing, the deck is stacked against this region of the country to ever win a national title. You saw Howard Payne's women play this year, do you think they Puget Sound is better than them? I would bet if you knew they played at home you would pencil them in for Salem.
   But you are right about one thing for sure, one of the men's team will have to do what Hardin-Simmons' women did last year sooner or later to make it a bigger issue.

[golden_dome]

It's gonna be hard to make a claim like that on a 26-point loss, guys. I'm sure it would've been different at home in front of 3,500 fans but Mississippi College hasn't drawn more than 1,900 all year. 

I would be more reluctant to say that if I didn't already know VWC was beaten on the road at UMHB and struggled to beat Hardin-Simmons.

[Pat Coleman]

I didn't see Puget Sound play but I know that Puget Sound and Howard Payne each traveled a great distance and played on a neutral floor and Puget Sound won. Gonna be hard to say otherwise there.

[golden_dome]

I didn't see Puget Sound play but I know that Puget Sound and Howard Payne each traveled a great distance and played on a neutral floor and Puget Sound won. Gonna be hard to say otherwise there.

Pat,
   Don't get me wrong, teams that win in the tourney deserve to win and MC was terrible yesterday. I have not kept up with the women's tourney closely and honestly did not know both teams flew into that sectional. I hate that Howard Payne lost but it seems both teams faced similiar obstacles.
    But still, it really doesn't matter if MC or HPU was beaten 100 points, there is still no justification for the current method of picking sectionals.

[Ralph Turner]

Chris, the NCAA has selected and seeded the field that it can bus.  They do it all of the time and relatively easily.  That field is comprised of the 55 schools that are north and east of St Louis.

The remaining four plane flights that I counted (corrections appreciated) were Whitworth, Oxy, UMHB and then Miss. College for the Sectionals.  In fact, it was 481 miles from Murvul to Washington StL.  The NCAA could have sent Murvul to St Louis, and Whitworth to Clinton, and the field would have still been whittled to one plane flight for the Sweet 16, as I review the field.  (As I said, corrections are appreciated.)  I just gave the 2nd option on creating a bussable bracket.

As for HPU, they made only 7 (seven, VII, sieben, seis) field goals in each half.  UPS took them out of their game.  It's that simple, and on a neutral court (D1 style).

This post-season has not helped us.  If UPS can beat Wash StL on a neutral floor, and then win the Championship, then it would look like a good tourney.

As for the men, I will compile the Playoff records and play particular attention to the road records (bus and plane) in the playoffs.  I was at university function last night so I did not get to see or hear the game. 

[CUAfan]

A while back, I saw a release from the NCAA, part of which was a mention that as a non-profit, all the $$$$ they make goes back into the organization. Seeing as the D1 men's tourney makes more money in one year (net) than the members of this board will in a lifetime, you'd think they could use some of THAT money to fly people around to the good and proper hosts. A true all-neutral-site tourney would be better, but one step at a time.

[Ralph Turner]

From the GSAC board,

Mississippi College strong showing in the Sweet 16??? Not even close. They played very disappointingly and got man-handled by Virginia Wesleyan.

It looks like we are back at square one.  Any recent favorable impressions to the outside from our isolated corner of D3 have been ripped asunder by the voice of D3Hoopsville.

Mississippi College may match up well in the conference, and they may be able to dominate their home court, but the men's side of the conference has nothing to show for its efforts on the national scene.

[golden_dome]

From the GSAC board,

Mississippi College strong showing in the Sweet 16??? Not even close. They played very disappointingly and got man-handled by Virginia Wesleyan.

It looks like we are back at square one.  Any recent favorable impressions to the outside from our isolated corner of D3 have been ripped asunder by the voice of D3Hoopsville.

Ralph,
   So you think we are back at square one because of one game, I don't even know how to respond to that. Dave McHugh has seen MC play one time this year and they did not handle the more physical game very well, he's right and I thought the same thing. I can't argue with his analysis at all, I saw the same thing. But the difference in the game was a 24-5 run by VWC in the final four minutes of the first half and first four of the second half. MC went from down three to down 22 and the game was over, they could not get back in it.

   But the coaches and players don't have to apologize or defend themselves to anyone. MC is one of three teams in the country to reach the last three sweet sixteen's and I am sure everyone is aware the only one of the three not to host one. Amherst has hosted three in a row losing once in the round of sixteen and making two final fours. St. John Fisher has hosted one and reached one elite eight.

   The Choctaws lost to a team that is the favorite to win their second straight national title, that is not exactly the end of the world. I wish they had played better on the road and am still dumbfounded how the game ever got that out of hand, but it happened. It was very reminiscent of the UT-Dallas game a few years ago.

   If you can't find positive advances of the ASC this year then you are trying really hard to find the negatives. MC reached the highest ranking of any ASC team ever at #3. They completely dominated the best team from the Mid-Atlantic region, Johns Hopkins, on a neutral floor. They destroyed Occidental and Maryville, two other quality teams outside our conference. I know Occidental was missing their top player but anyone who was there saw they were completely outmatched. UMHB beat the possible two-time national champions in a home game and became just the 4th ASC team to ever earn a national ranking after UTD also earned a ranking this year. The ASC also had three of the top eight South Region teams in the final regional rankings.

Mississippi College may match up well in the conference, and they may be able to dominate their home court, but the men's side of the conference has nothing to show for its efforts on the national scene.

MC is 32-1 at home the last two years and 24-4 away from home. I would think most teams would take 24-4 on the road. As far as the men having nothing to show on the national scene comment, I guess UMHB's win over Virginia Wesleyan was meaningless and MC's beating of Johns Hopkins also of little consequence this year.

I would have loved to see MC win the national championship this year but one loss does not completely dismiss an entire year of improvement. Don't join in with everyone else who try to paint a picture that if MC could not get past the round of sixteen then the ASC had a miserable year. By that logic the CCIW was overrated all year since Augustana could not get out of the first round. Step back and see the bigger picture, that the conference has made major improvements and will have to be good enough to go on the road and beat top-ranked teams on their home courts in the tournament.

[Pat Coleman]

   If you can't find positive advances of the ASC this year then you are trying really hard to find the negatives. MC reached the highest ranking of any ASC team ever at #3. They completely dominated the best team from the Mid-Atlantic region, Johns Hopkins, on a neutral floor. They destroyed Occidental and Maryville, two other quality teams outside our conference. I know Occidental was missing their top player but anyone who was there saw they were completely outmatched. UMHB beat the possible two-time national champions in a home game and became just the 4th ASC team to ever earn a national ranking after UTD also earned a ranking this year. The ASC also had three of the top eight South Region teams in the final regional rankings.

Lincoln and Catholic will each argue your anointing of Johns Hopkins as the best team in the Mid-Atlantic region. Alvernia might have an argument as well.

But the ASC needs to aim higher than beating the No. 3 team from the No. 6 region. And with the conference's runner-up gifted a favorable matchup in the first round, it needs to come through.

I've seen good teams get manhandled in the Sweet 16 before. I also remember telling people after I saw MC in person in November that I could comfortably see Mississippi College as high as No. 13.

Although they did climb much higher, that number seems fairly reasonable now as well.

[golden_dome]

Lincoln and Catholic will each argue your anointing of Johns Hopkins as the best team in the Mid-Atlantic region. Alvernia might have an argument as well.

But the ASC needs to aim higher than beating the No. 3 team from the No. 6 region. And with the conference's runner-up gifted a favorable matchup in the first round, it needs to come through.

I've seen good teams get manhandled in the Sweet 16 before. I also remember telling people after I saw MC in person in November that I could comfortably see Mississippi College as high as No. 13.

Although they did climb much higher, that number seems fairly reasonable now as well.

Pat,
   I see you didn't bother to mention UMHB's win over the defending national champions, I would probably consider that to be higher than beating the no. 3 team from the no. 6 region. Unlike other conferences, you seem to wipe out all positives about the ASC with one bad game.

Would you say you overhyped the CCIW all season and the NCAA got it right by putting one CCIW team in the tournament due to their opening round loss at HOME to Carroll who came from a Midwest Conference league you said was weak.  If the only thing that matters is performance in the NCAA Tournament then that would seem like reasonable logic.

I know everyone is using MC's terrible loss to VWC as ammunition right now but there is no way MC is 26 points worse, nowhere near. Everything went wrong for the Choctaws and VWC shot the ball like they haven't all season. Even the VWC fans are saying that was by far their best performance of the season and I give them credit for that. But it was also MC's worst game which I know VWC had a lot to do with. But there is no way you or anyone else can say they know how that game turns out if it is played at MC.

Not that it matters, but coaches conceded the win down 19 with between two and three minutes remaining. VWC scored the last seven points. If it is a 15 point loss does that make it better. I don't think it matters and I am sure coaches didn't either.

As for Johns Hopkins, I was actually using your poll which had them as the top Middle Atlantic team all year and also the top team entering the tournament. If you are ready to completely discredit that then go ahead. I was responding to a post that said the ASC did nothing against out of region teams this year which was incorrect. I don't remember anything in my post saying that was the pinnacle of our ambition.

In the last nine years, the ASC has put three different teams in the Sweet Sixteen a total of seven times with one in the Elite Eight. The league has only been here a little over a decade but is making improvement. I am sure it gets old hearing our constant complaining about travel in the tourney but it is no less valid. If the conference had an opportunity to host just a few of those sectionals it is well within reason to think teams would have gone further.

I am not saying the ASC right now is a dominant league in the country, but it is improving and does deserve more credit than it is given.