MBB: American Southwest Conference

[Ralph Turner]

Interviews are still going on.  I hear that TLU has had some very qualified coaches apply!

[LostCoach]

Any rumors on who some of those guys might be at TLU?

[Ralph Turner]

Any rumors on who some of those guys might be at TLU?

Not trying to spread rumors, but Chris Oestreich left Austin College and Matt Wallis resigned at UT-Tyler.

[LostCoach]

Not trying to spread rumors, but Chris Oestreich left Austin College and Matt Wallis resigned at UT-Tyler.

you are right....and I didn't mean to imply that either guy was FIRED at their respective schools. When I looked back at my post that is exactly what it sounded like. I know Coach O and he is a great guy....I don't know Coach Wallis and don't pretend to know the situation at either school. Just curious what the other two schools might be doing. TLU would be doing well to hire either one if they WERE interviewing.

[Ralph Turner]

Not trying to spread rumors, but Chris Oestreich left Austin College and Matt Wallis resigned at UT-Tyler.

you are right....and I didn't mean to imply that either guy was FIRED at their respective schools. When I looked back at my post that is exactly what it sounded like. I know Coach O and he is a great guy....I don't know Coach Wallis and don't pretend to know the situation at either school. Just curious what the other two schools might be doing. TLU would be doing well to hire either one if they WERE interviewing.

I agree and I understand.  You share my desire to be precise in what we post in such situations.

I am on record as complimenting both of those coaches for the jobs that they did at their previous locations.

Coach Oestreich did more with less until he was able to everything with nothing, and Coach Wallis got a program thru what seemed to be an interminable provisional period.

[LostCoach]

Ralph,

   you seem to have a pretty good grip on the ASC. What is the situation at Schreiner? They have not been real successful the last few years. What is it going to take to turn their program around? You hear of any candidates there?

[Ralph Turner]

No I haven't.  I think that any school can build a good program.

Schreiner has had its peaks in the past few years in several sports.  Schools do tend to have their ups and downs.

[Ralph Turner]

McM 80, UMHB 76 OT

A little You Tube action for the off-season.

[imad3fanatic]

 TLU Names Basketball Coach

http://www.tlu.edu/athletics?newsid=670

[Ralph Turner]

I understand that the 2007-08 schedule has been proposed.  It includes these aspects:

--requiring all teams to play 20/21 games against conference opponents.
--20/21 games counting towards the championship.

I am very sorry to hear of this with respect to the conference "trying to get respect".

I am among the people who believe that we won't get respect until we go out and earn it, against D3 foes of known quality!


To review the 2006-07 season, we had 4 teams that scheduled their non-conference games to do that.

1)  UMHB invited 2006 champion VWC to their December tourney.  Both VWC and Ripon were considered in-region and boosted their QOWI, which in turn earned them a Pool C bid.

2)  Mississippi College played in the well-known Westmont Tourney.  This NAIA school hosts nationally known powers, Johns Hopkins and Miss College this year.  MC beat them both, and solidified their claim to host, at least the first round.

3)  McMurry went to Johns Hopkins for that tourney.  Unfortunately, they lost PG Robert Moreno to the broken ankle in the first minute of the Rowan game.  McM lost by 5 to Rowan, and Rowan (20-6) lost by 2 to JHU (also a NCAA tourney team).  McMurry beat Penn AC Immaculata 75-61 the next night in the consolation round.  (Penn AC went 12-16/10-8 and lost in the Penn AC tourney finals.)  Injuries happen, but I like the chance to try to beat those teams.

4)  HSU was the other side of the bracket in the UMHB tourney.  They lost to Ripon and to VWC in OT.

(I also want to acknowledge that UOzarks scheduled Austin College, UDallas, Rust and Hendrix, 4 South Region opponents, as non-conference games.)

Those teams went outside the usual assortment of non-conference games that we usually play versus NAIA's, D2's and the occasional D1's.  Realistically, the only thing that UT-Dallas got for its win over UTA was one quick week in the Top 25.

This is what I had hoped would have been adopted for next year.

1)  Mandate that all West schools play 18 games, that is, four interdivisional games.  (A few in the East get more than 4 interdivisional games.)

2)  Only count the intra-divisional games towards the conference tourney.  This is the most equitable...home-and-away. 

Here are the advantages to this.

1)  Only counting the intra-divisional games towards the toruney gives a coach 10 games to get his team competitive.  Imagine that a coach goes 0-8 against the West before starting East intra-divisional play.  Those players are struggling to get back up to .500 for the rest of the season.  On the East, UT-Tyler is now eligible, so it gets tighter for post-season bids to the ASC tourney.

2)  We don't have any difference caused by not having to travel to Clinton or to Abilene or to Alpine or any other geographically-induced quirk in the schedule.

3)  Mandating only 18 games (basically one away and one home weekend in interdivsional play) frees up other valuable dates for coaches to schedule D3 opponents in other parts of the country.  This gives us 7 non-conference games that will allow a school to boost its non-conference opponents' opponents' winning percentage and play respected team in other parts of the country.

4)  This does not prevent a coach from scheduling ASC teams anyway.  We have had numerous examples of coaches scheduling home and away with interdivisional opponents anyway.  These games can be scheduled at times that may not conflict with the valuable out-of-conference, D3, preferably in-region, games that will get us respect.

5)  Our having only 8 mandated weekend series by the travel partners gives flexibility around the times of the various schedules for Final Exams and Dead Week.  (That is 6 mandated weekend series in the West, plus the 2 interdivisional weekend series.  This means that these weekend inter-divisional series can begin on Jan 3 & 5, Jan 10 & 12.  Intradivisional play can begin the next weekend, Jan 17 & 19, 24 & 29, Jan 31 and Feb 2, Feb 7 & 9, Feb 14 & 16, Feb 21 & 23.  Conference tourney runs Feb 29th, March 1st and 2nd.)

6)  Our having 22 mandated dates makes it harder for us to schedule nearby D3's like Trinity, Southwestern, Austin College and UDallas and even Rust, Rhodes, Hendrix and Millsaps.

7)  Having those open dates may allow us to pick up "snowbirds" who come in December.

The only opponents that gain respect for the ASC will be D3 opponents.  (Westmont CA and maybe Cornerstone in Michigan may be the exceptions.)  D3's that are in-region are preferential to "non-in-region", but that is a strategic discussion for another time.  Travel costs will push ASC schools to play other ASC schools above the 18 dates.  We may find some schools who can save on travel costs by staying close to home.  That is another strategic point.  Does a coach have a better chance of a Pool C bid with a South Region record of 14-4 plus 2-1 in the conference tourney (16-5) or 20-4 plus 2-1 in the conference tourney (22-5)?

The way that other schools in other parts of the country boost their QOWI (or next year opponents' opponents' winning percentage in 2007-08) is to find schools that you can beat in other conferences that will boost your OOWP.

For example, UMHB beat VWC 22-4 in the South Region, and 12-10 Ripon also considered in-region by the new criteria.  Those wins were worth much more than another runaway win over a team with a losing in-region record in the conference.

Here are the in-region teams at posts # 2230 and 2231.

I hope that this will be re-considered.

I remind you that Pat Coleman told us this same stuff a few years ago.

[Pat Coleman]

Ralph,

Thanks for continuing to carry the banner on this. I wonder if ETBU will change its tune after being left out of the women's tournament. The team really had no chance of being selected as a Pool C pick but would've at least been in the conversation with a little more respect for the Division III selection criteria.

I didn't get a chance to grade the ASC non-conference schedules this season because we got to some of the schedules pretty late this fall, but here's a link to the blog posting grading the 2005-06 non-conference slates.

http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2005/10/06/how-the-asc-is-adjusting/

[etbualum]

D3 record for baseball set at etbu. Congrats to Aaron Dalton.
http://www.etbu.edu/Current+Athletic+News/sports_item.htm?SportsID=1252

Pat

I think the women are trying to play Trinity.  No word yet if the game is scheduled or not, but I know it is something they would like to do.

I have heard the men might go back to Northwestern for another payday, but nothing official on that either.

[golden_dome]

Ralph,
   I have to disagree about the coaches choosing the 20/21 conference games but do agree with a couple of points you made.
   I know you are already aware of the shortage of DIII opponents available in this part of the country. I think if we open up more out of conference dates we will see several teams playing the NAIA schools like we did before which really doesn't help us at all. The 20/21 ASC games ensure that teams are at least playing regional DIII opponents and I think the 4/5 nonconference dates are plenty if worked correctly.
    UMHB is a great example this year. All 25 games were regional and they used their four out-of-conference games to play Virginia Wesleyan, Ripon, Trinity and Southwestern. Those games made the difference in getting them in the tourney. That is a good model for everyone else to consider.
    If we did lock in teams for just 18 conference games, I would guess you would see more NAIA opponents filling the open dates rather than quality DIII regional teams primarily due to financial reasons. For some teams, those are the only nearby teams available to play. Our schools just have to be smart how they use their out-of-conference opportunities.
    I do wonder why all 20/21 games are conference. I am sure there is a reason but I just have not heard that argument. I would think only counting division games to pick the top four teams on each side would be more fair since teams face each other twice in a home and home series.

[Ralph Turner]

Chris, thanks for the response.  The 20/21 locks us into a zero sum game.

The question about quality South Region opponents is when?  The opponents must have a comparable open date.

The conference schedule in a 20/21 takes up:

the second weekend
the third weekend
the fourth weekend is dead week
the fifth weekend is finals
the sixth weekend is break.
the seventh weekend is Christmas.
the eighth weekend was between Christmas and New Years this year.

Under my scenario the 18 game schedule begins now, the ninth weekend Jan 3rd and Jan 5th, and every weekend there on out as the current 20/21 does.

Most teams around the country begin serious conference play after New Years, if they only have 16-18 conference games.

Please go to the Scoreboard and look at the proclivity of teams to play after the semester and before Christmas.  You can peruse the scoreboard and find the nature and the opportunity of the few games that are played.

A NAIA team does not help a coach's effort to earn respect.  However the 20/21 takes away dates that a coach can schedule good D3's.

The SCAC will have 9 available dates in 2007-08, but if we are trying to match schedules, we have only two prime weeks to find opponents, the 1st and the 8th weekends.

Miss College is almost equidistant to Maryville, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Sewanee, Rhodes, Oglethorpe and Piedmont versus the ASC-West.  Not trying to single out TLU and Schreiner, but the Schreiner and TLU as a  travel pair were the worst you could schedule in the South Region.  You earned 16 QOWI points for those two home wins.  Piedmont/ LaGrange road trip would have earned you 24 QOWI points.  Oglethorpe/ Sewanee would have earned 22 QOWI points.  If you had done the Piedmont/LaGrange trip, I re-calculate your QOWI at 11.083, 3rd best in D3.  Do you host a sectional with the 3rd best QOWI?  I don't know! 

The factor that will drive a coach to weigh a D3 South Region game is whether a 14-4 (.778) South Region record and 7 non-D3 South Region games will be better than scheduling 3 or 5 more D3 in-region games and possibly go 18-5 (.783).  Eighteen wins look better than 14. Maybe those extra 5 in-region D3 games include a regionally ranked opponent, which is another of the criteria.  We might see some creative scheduling, like mini-tourneys where a team comes into Dallas and plays a Fri/Sat pair or some other neutral site for a pair of games versus D3 opponents.

We hear about the costs of travel, but offering a creative alternative to mandated 1800 mile road trips needs some thought.

With respect to a coach selecting NAIA's and other non-D3 opponents, I cannot make his decision, but the 20/21 takes the opportunity out of the hands of the coach who wishes to improve his schedule.  IMHO, that opportunity occurs in weeks 1-3.

[golden_dome]

Ralph,
   I think whether teams are playing 18 or 21 conference games, both can still work fine. I can see positives and negatives for both. I just think the UMHB schedule last year is about as good as an ASC team could do.

   The travel is a big issue though. Schools are forced to budget for the travel because the league mandates the schedule. If you opened up another weekend, I am not sure the travel budgets would stay the same. For some schools it would work fine, but others would probably be asked to use the available weekend for guarantee games or home games against whoever they can find.

   Also, with the league so spread out and already travelling more than anyone in the country, most coaches would probably take the opportunity to keep their kids in their own beds an extra weekend and there are few quality teams willing to travel to play teams like MC, UMHB or McMurry without a return trip.

   I think either scenario can work. With only 4-5 nonconference games available, teams just need to make the most of them.