MBB: American Southwest Conference

[ASCfan237]

Its hard to imagine he would transfer out for his senior year, especially when you are already at a power house. Must of got into some trouble or somethin. Not sure though, seemed like a good kid on the court.
Thats for the post Chris, sounds like I need to establish a D3 school in MS that is not a private school! lol

Then petition the ASC for membership so you will have a big advantage like UTT and UTD.

That is an interesting point. To my understanding both of those schools do cost considerable less to normal students because they are public. On the other hand those schools are not afforded the luxuries to have "leadership scholarships" or "oppertunity scholarships" or other made up scholarships to get players into school. Also UTD and UTT have higher admissions standards...they can't just let any player into their school because he is good at sports like the private schools can.

When I was at Ozarks a buddy of mine played at UTD. He was paying full tutition over there and paying way more than players (notice I did not say students) from these other schools were paying.

Maybe that is just my opinion but coming from a college that was private I heard stories from other private school guys about the money they recieved and how they were only paying a thousand or so for school. The players that I coach in high school I advise to not go to those public schools because I understand the academic side of trying to get my students in there and I know that those schools have no money set aside for these scholarships that no one wants to admit happens at their own school. Anyway I apologize if I offend anyone but that is how I see it from a high school coaching standpoint of trying to get my kids into college for cheap and a good education.

[etbualum]

Its hard to imagine he would transfer out for his senior year, especially when you are already at a power house. Must of got into some trouble or somethin. Not sure though, seemed like a good kid on the court.
Thats for the post Chris, sounds like I need to establish a D3 school in MS that is not a private school! lol

Then petition the ASC for membership so you will have a big advantage like UTT and UTD.

That is an interesting point. To my understanding both of those schools do cost considerable less to normal students because they are public. On the other hand those schools are not afforded the luxuries to have "leadership scholarships" or "oppertunity scholarships" or other made up scholarships to get players into school. Also UTD and UTT have higher admissions standards...they can't just let any player into their school because he is good at sports like the private schools can.

When I was at Ozarks a buddy of mine played at UTD. He was paying full tutition over there and paying way more than players (notice I did not say students) from these other schools were paying.

Maybe that is just my opinion but coming from a college that was private I heard stories from other private school guys about the money they recieved and how they were only paying a thousand or so for school. The players that I coach in high school I advise to not go to those public schools because I understand the academic side of trying to get my students in there and I know that those schools have no money set aside for these scholarships that no one wants to admit happens at their own school. Anyway I apologize if I offend anyone but that is how I see it from a high school coaching standpoint of trying to get my kids into college for cheap and a good education.

You are wrong on a lot of things in this post.  D3 sports financial aid is scrutinized pretty harshly.  One of the biggest reasons most schools go d3 is to get away from giving athletes money, therefore it wouldnt make sense for them to give money under the table.

As for private schools having the luxury of leadership scholarships.
Most privates are tuition driven schools while states schools recieve a fair amount of funding from the state.  While texas does give Equalization Grants to students to bridge the gap for kids who want to attend a private States schools have money they can give as well that privates cant(texas grant) Many d3 athletes come from meager family incomes which translates to a ton of state and federal funded aid, as well as institutional need based aid.  That same aid is available to state school kids.

I am pretty familiar with the workings of most schools in our conference and none of the privates have the luxury of paying somone to come to school.  Have students in the past been given money because a coach went to bat for them....probably.  I would imagine that those stories are few and far between.

As for admissions standards
Every school state or private can admit who they choose.  A lot of times they have limits to the amount of students below admissions standards they can let in.  While the state schools boast high admissions standards I would  say that every student on campus does not meet them.  The same can be said for every private school in our conference.


The advantage that those schools have can be found in several things.
Faith based schools such as ETBU limit a great deal of athletes because of the religious affiliation.  Not that every kid that ends up here is a ministry major but a good deal of them do not even look at us because of that.  I for one am ok with that, but I would be a foolish to think that a school such as UTT or UTD(leaving out sully because of location) dont appeal to a kid looking for a more "traditional"  college experience.

Many of the faith based schools also have an on campus requirement for housing while utt and utd do not.

Location utd and utt have pretty solid locations and are by far the two biggest schools in our conference.  Resources for academics are plentiful while many kids at the privates do well to get the things they need.

Bottom line is cost for a lot of kids and utt and utd are much cheaper.

[ASCfan237]

Im not going to say I agree with everything you said in your post but the "faith aspect" is very true. That is a great point to bring up. Are all the schools besides UTD, UTT, and SRSU "faith based"?

You mentioned "Have students in the past been given money because a coach went to bat for them....probably.  I would imagine that those stories are few and far between."

I am not going to name those indivduals or schools on this message board but you may be underestimating the number of kids that recieve certain aid that isnt based on need. I have also known kids in the past who were academically unable to meet the standards at those public schools and were forced to play for anothing team in the conference because of it. I know that is not illegal by any means and I am not saying it is wrong either that some schools have different standards, I just think it is too easy to criticize those public schools when half of it is not totally true.

[Ralph Turner]

SRSU is a charter member times two!

They have been supporting this little group of schools since 1976.

The TIAA (NAIA) had Austin College, McMurry, SRSU, Tarleton and Trinity.

ASC History, circa 1997.

[etbualum]

ASCfan237

I wasnt saying that kids dont get into the privates that didnt get into the publics.  I was saying they both let in kids who are below the stated admissions standards.  I have several kids that I know are at the publics that could not get into a couple privates. 
The fact that those kids get into school probably has more to do with total enrollment of the school than the coach calling in a favor.

As for improper aid.  I will say it happens far less than people assume it does.   With all the players in the conference that are recruited by multiple schools in the conference and players that transfer in conference you would hear about it.  I will say again that it probably has happened but not like you think, or as often as you think.

Ralph
Sul Ross hurts itself I think by being in this conference.  The travel expenditures and trips required cant help with recruiting.  It also has to be tough to play after the long trips that they make.   I am not one of the people who thinks we should kick them out, I just wonder if they suffer more than they benefit.

[pistol pete 22]

I think this is one of the most talked about issuses in D3 sports. I also find it interesting that a person who is associated with a private school is that one who brought it up! Everyone hears rumors about going to school for free or only paying a few thousand there. I know of recruits in the past who have told Dallas that they can play for cheaper elsewhere in the conference. Looking at some of the schools requirements, it looks like that most private schools have an easier time getting players in. They also offer larger academic scholarships for lower SAT/ACT scores than the standards here at UTD. Public universitys do give out state grants but they are not easy to get an few players are on full pale. Not all, but a lot of players who qualify for full pale are the same players who have problems passing. The UT system is very tough academically, especially after coming over from a JUCO. But I agree with ETBU where there are some players who wont even look at some of the private schools because of their religion. But I know theres kids out there who are just going to go where ever they can play an for the cheapest which just might be some of the private schools at times.

[ASCfan237]

Good points Pistol Pete.

[CUAfan]

Sul Ross hurts itself I think by being in this conference.  The travel expenditures and trips required cant help with recruiting.  It also has to be tough to play after the long trips that they make.   I am not one of the people who thinks we should kick them out, I just wonder if they suffer more than they benefit.

This makes me wonder, what D3 conference could Sul Ross join that would not require a lot of travel and such? Even NAIA and/or D2? Those are honest questions, but I'm guessing that most places in any conference they could think of joining wouldn't be much closer, if at all.

[#1ascfanman]

This is a very interesting subject.  I know here in Louisiana we have the TOPPS program that gives students with higher test scores more state money that applies to even the private schools such as LC.  IT seems though we can't take advantage of it due to the fact many of the good basketball players here in Louisiana want to go to places other than LC.   
The only one that it has helped is with Josh Johnson.  I have ties to the university and graduated there and have been told he was actually considering ETBU at one point but got a better deal here at LC but I can't actually confirm that.  Imagine if he had gone there?!?!? Glad he didn't !!!
Then there is MC whom I have heard does go the extra mile to help get players in.  They are higher than most schools but I have been told from an inside source they will piece together lots of little scholarships here and there that add up.  I do know that according to their website they do pretty nice scholarships for transfer students, so when you put the two together they can come up with some nice "packages" together.  I know they have an advantage recruting those jucos out there but they have been so good for so long, the most consistent school in the conference.  After being around this league for a while it seems other than MC it really is just a crap shoot every year.  LeT was so bad for so long yet they have found a way.  Every school in the conference can find a way.  Even on SRSU found a way a few years ago, so why not LC or LeT or UO or ETBU.  If the school has coaches that work hard enough they will get players in some way some how. Just as some of you hav said, if a kid wants to play bad enough they will go where they are wanted regardless of cost in some cases.


GO WILDCATS

[etbualum]

It makes it interesting but ill point out a few things at etbu to give you an example of how its not all about leadership money.  ETBU was 21,000 last year for an on campus student. A student earning the top academic scholarshp got 6,500 and the top leadership got 4,000.  Other than that etbu offers a 500 church matching scholarship.  So a kid without financial need can only get 11,000.   If you add in the state aid a very needy texas kid can get 4600 in pell and another 3700 in Texas Equalization grant.  It makes it much more attractive, but the key is only kids with need can get those funds.  So at etbu you are either needy or you pay. 

UTD is about 17k per year to live on campus.  10k if you life off campus.  Even without the need based aid a kid with no other money will be close to the same out of pocket cost as an etbu kid without need based aid since UTD gives them the option to live off campus while ETBU does not. 

It is possible for the privates to land great kids and they always seem to, but as you can see they pretty much have to be able to show need or it isnt even close.


ascfanman- Josh Johnson was very close to coming here.  I believe he was high school teammates with one of our womens players at the time.  ETBU also had a commitment from Dusty Evers but then he got an offer from Northwestern and ended up coming back to LETU.  It would have been a pretty good group, but I am sure its probably like that at any school.

[pistol pete 22]

It makes it interesting but ill point out a few things at etbu to give you an example of how its not all about leadership money.  ETBU was 21,000 last year for an on campus student. A student earning the top academic scholarshp got 6,500 and the top leadership got 4,000.  Other than that etbu offers a 500 church matching scholarship.  So a kid without financial need can only get 11,000.   If you add in the state aid a very needy texas kid can get 4600 in pell and another 3700 in Texas Equalization grant.  It makes it much more attractive, but the key is only kids with need can get those funds.  So at etbu you are either needy or you pay. 

UTD is about 17k per year to live on campus.  10k if you life off campus.  Even without the need based aid a kid with no other money will be close to the same out of pocket cost as an etbu kid without need based aid since UTD gives them the option to live off campus while ETBU does not. 

It is possible for the privates to land great kids and they always seem to, but as you can see they pretty much have to be able to show need or it isnt even close.


ascfanman- Josh Johnson was very close to coming here.  I believe he was high school teammates with one of our womens players at the time.  ETBU also had a commitment from Dusty Evers but then he got an offer from Northwestern and ended up coming back to LETU.  It would have been a pretty good group, but I am sure its probably like that at any school.

Based of off the schools websites, to be admitted into UT Dallas you need to have a 1200 on the SAT and a 26 on the ACT, just to be admitted. UT Tyler's website says a 1410 on the SAT or a 20 on the ACT, just to be admitted. No scholarships promised, thats just getting into the school. ETBUs standards are a 18 on the ACT or a 860 on the SAT or graduate in the top 40% of your high school class, at UTD and UTT it is top 15%. With those same grades the student would recieve a $5,500 scholarship based off of ETBUs website. Not to mention the leadership scholarship on top of it. And if he qualifies for a pale hes looking at about $7,000 a year. So going by the websites it is by far easier to get admitted into ETBU and easier to get money to bring the bill down to even or lower than the public universitys.

About 10K if you live off campus at UTD, and you could get the same aid which would bring it down to around $7,000 just like ETBU. BUT just because you live off campus does not mean you live for free. Once you pay all your bills plus you have pay for all your food because you dont get a meal plan on your schools bill, thats got to put the total back up to atleast 10K for the year if not more. Which makes it seem that it is cheaper to go to ETBU.

With all this said, I believe saying that UTD and UTT have an unfair advantage over the private schools has no truth at all!

Ive heard Dusty Evers was going to UTT but could not get admitted.

[Ralph Turner]

Ralph
Sul Ross hurts itself I think by being in this conference.  The travel expenditures and trips required cant help with recruiting.  It also has to be tough to play after the long trips that they make.   I am not one of the people who thinks we should kick them out, I just wonder if they suffer more than they benefit.

This makes me wonder, what D3 conference could Sul Ross join that would not require a lot of travel and such? Even NAIA and/or D2? Those are honest questions, but I'm guessing that most places in any conference they could think of joining wouldn't be much closer, if at all.

The ASC is the best fit for SRSU.  There are long time rivalries in west Texas with SRSU.

I don't think that SRSU will return to the "D2" level where they were before the TIAA/ASC.  SRSU came from the Lone Star Conference.

The interesting thing about the ASC is the strength of the programs in the West.

Soccer --  Men 7; Women 7
Volleyball -- 8 teams
Cross Country  Men 5; Women 6 teams
Football -- 6 teams
Basketball -- Men 8; Women 8
Baseball - 8 teams
Softball - 7 teams
Tennis - Men 8; Women 8
Golf - Men 6; Women 6
Track -  Men 4 (McM, HSU, SRSU, maybe HPU) Women 5 (McM, HSU, maybe HPU, SRSU, TLU)

The West fulfills the conference requirements (of sponsoring 5 sports including 3 team sports in 3 seasons by itself.  There must be a minimum of 7 teams for an AQ and 4 teams to conduct a championship.)

As for the East

Football -- 3 teams  (could affiliate with the West)
Volleyball -- 5 teams
Cross Country --   Men 6; Women 6 teams
Soccer -- Men  7; Women  7
Basketball -- Men 7; Women 7
Baseball --  7 teams
Softball -- 7 teams
Tennis -- Men 6; Women 6
Golf --  Men 5; Women 3
Track -- 2 men and 2 women

I wish we could find some more good candidates on the East, but I certainly don't know where they are! 

The East and West could split into two conference for the sake of extra bids, but we would throw some teams into Pool B, clearly undesirable.

By staying together we have Pool A bids in Men's and Women's Golf and Cross Country and Volleyball and Football.

[dballa]

Based of off the schools websites, to be admitted into UT Dallas you need to have a 1200 on the SAT and a 26 on the ACT, just to be admitted. UT Tyler's website says a 1410 on the SAT or a 20 on the ACT, just to be admitted. No scholarships promised, thats just getting into the school.

Let's just make sure this is clear.  Based off what the websites say you are ASSURED of getting into the school if you make those scores.  That means you are guaranteed admission based off your scores.  You can make less than those scores and still get in, you just have to get approval outside of your scores to be admitted.

Did I say scores enough?

[Ralph Turner]

Based of off the schools websites, to be admitted into UT Dallas you need to have a 1200 on the SAT and a 26 on the ACT*, just to be admitted. UT Tyler's website says a 1410 on the SAT or a 20 on the ACT**, just to be admitted. No scholarships promised, thats just getting into the school.

Let's just make sure this is clear.  Based off what the websites say you are ASSURED of getting into the school if you make those scores.  That means you are guaranteed admission based off your scores.  You can make less than those scores and still get in, you just have to get approval outside of your scores to be admitted.

Did I say scores enough?

* seems like this is the two-part SAT

** seems like this is the three-part SAT.

[ASCfan237]

It would be wonderful to find another team in the East. Who else would be a good candidate though?