D3 vs. NAIA

[K-Mack]

Does the NAIA do drug testing.  I visited St. Ambrose my senior year in HS and remember that as one of the big differences (other than scholarship $) was that the NAIA didn't drug test.

If that's true, I wonder if it's a cost issue.

[BoBo]

Does the NAIA do drug testing.  I visited St. Ambrose my senior year in HS and remember that as one of the big differences (other than scholarship $) was that the NAIA didn't drug test.

If that's true, I wonder if it's a cost issue.

The NAIA Medical Guidelines, page 17 - Substance Abuse Program, doesn't indicate if testing is conducted at the Association level.  I would conclude it doesn't drug test.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/training/Medical%20Guidelines%20Book%2006-07revised.pdf

[K-Mack]

vs. NAIA (23-8 in 2006)
Guilford 70, at Southern Virginia 26
Anderson 37, at Taylor 13
at St. Norbert 34, Olivet Nazarene 27
UW-Stevens Point 13, at Webber International 7
Southern Nazarene 42, at Howard Payne 14
at Austin 35, Southwest Assemblies of God 14

5-1.

More of the same. 

[Ralph Turner]

The Southern Nazarene score is the perplexing one.  Let's see how far they go in the playoffs.

[K-Mack]

More of the same. 

I looked back on this board, and found that disturbing clash with that Football Fever clown.

NAIA got the better of D3 in '05, 19-15, it appears.

So like most logical people said, the two divisions aren't terribly far apart, at least when you put similarly-ranked teams together. Though if it continues at a 23-8 and 5-1 clip, we may have to re-evaluate our thinking on the matter.

In any case, I just chart it so people know which classification the non-D3s people are playing came from. Do what you will with the records.

[BoBo]

vs. NAIA (23-8 in 2006)
Guilford 70, at Southern Virginia 26
Anderson 37, at Taylor 13
at St. Norbert 34, Olivet Nazarene 27
UW-Stevens Point 13, at Webber International 7
Southern Nazarene 42, at Howard Payne 14
at Austin 35, Southwest Assemblies of God 14

5-1.

More of the same. 

The ending of the UWSP/Webber International game was especially interesting. The game was heading for OT, when on a 4th down, the Webber punter knocked an 84 yard boomer that was downed at the Point 2 yard line.  However, a penalty brought the play back for a re-kick.  On the re-kick, Point blocked the punt and fell on the loose ball for a TD with :38 seconds remaining and the game winner.  Talk about your fantastic finishes.

The recap is here:

http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/football/2007/Webberintl.htm

[K-Mack]

Whoa. That's a brutal way to lose.

Nice tip. Almost as crazy as that Cornell-Northwestern finish. Definitely from the 'stuff I've never seen before' files.

[Mr. Ypsi]

K-Mack,

What?  You've never seen (effectively) a 98-yard penalty for a game-losing td before?!

Such a sheltered life.

[K-Mack]

I gotta get out more.

Did you read about the sprinkler thing? It'll be in ATN if you haven't.

[pg04]

Was that the thing about the sprinklers coming out when a team was about to kick an extra point, and then when it eventually stopped they missed the EP?  I have no idea what teams were involved but I know I heard it somewhere 

[K-Mack]

Was that the thing about the sprinklers coming out when a team was about to kick an extra point, and then when it eventually stopped they missed the EP?  I have no idea what teams were involved but I know I heard it somewhere 

Yeah. We just so happened to have a shooter at that game too

[repete]

Ah, Football Fever ... I remember his stuff.

The interesting thing about the zealots are that the  folks who have the most reasonable perspectives -- and know that the annual d3 vs. naia tally makes good board fodder but not much else -- are the guys with actual experience/connections in both divisions ... such as WC11.

Still, it's kind of funny to look at the NAIA boards. The mantra over there is that they're equal to d2. Interestingly, if Concordia beats NAIA Dickinson State this week after beating d2 Moorhead on Saturday, then maybe in a small, obscure  way they will be  correct ....  

Still, tho, I would have loved to see a game between Carroll and Mount. Or that great Linfield team and Carroll.

[K-Mack]

Still, it's kind of funny to look at the NAIA boards. The mantra over there is that they're equal to d2. Interestingly, if Concordia beats NAIA Dickinson State this week after beating d2 Moorhead on Saturday, then maybe in a small, obscure  way they will be  correct ....  

That's funny.

I think they're slightly delusional if they really believe that about D2; I haven't seen much factual basis to support that, but then again, some of those guys (OK, maybe just Fever) had a real problem with facts.

Then again, there's a big difference between D2 Gulf South, NCC or MIAA and D2 independents, NE-10 or what have you.

I think if we've learned anything following along its that you can't paint every classification with a broad brush. Every NAIA isn't better or worse than every D2 or D3 and vice versa. There is some overlap, and to some extent, a good fundamental football team (like Appy State for example) is a good, fundamental football team no matter how much talent is on the other side of the line from them.

D3, perhaps more than any, currently encompasses such a wide range of talent levels, institutional commitments to football, etc.

My personal opinion is that the level of strength goes in the order you expect it would: BCS, FCS, D2, D3, NAIA. But I certainly agree that the best in all the so-called lower divisions could beat middlin' teams probably all the way up to FCS, or at least II.

What we notice in places that have geographical overlap (Ohio, Pa., Michigan, Va.) is that many of the top kids are being recruited across the board, and their school choice often comes down to something not necessarily football-specific.

Also, when you're talking about scholarship-level programs that don't have enough scholarships to give everyone a full ride, there are many non-scholarship D3s, especially ones with reasonable tuition to begin with, who can put together a need-based financial aid package that is competitive with a partial athletic scholarship.

I think the presence of scholarships alone as the basis for proof there's a higher talent level works much better if there are full scholarships involved, if at all.

Certainly we could discuss it more with folks on the outside, but to prove what, really?

I love our level of football as it is and don't feel we have to convince anyone of our legitimacy or anything. In a way, such a pursuit reflects a kind of insecurity, a desperation to get people to believe you're worthy. Which is silly if you already know you are.

[Tom33]

There is no way the NAIA is even close to the D3 level of play. The talent level in some schools could be comparable, but in most circumstances not even a contest.

[repete]

KMack,
That sums it up nicely on a number of levels.