WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[albinomascot19]

All I have to say is now people are finally giving the ladies team props.....while I have been saying it all along....I think this team is totally incredible.....Hope College should be able to get by Scranton, and with a possible championship matchup with Southern Maine.  The Hope Flying Dutch have really represented the MIAA well, and now two wins away from a 2nd National championship since 1990.  I bet if the men's team were still in it, Hope Flying Dutch would still be getting no respect whatsoever.  I am happy that everyone can focus on the ultimate team.  I really believe if they continue to play the way they have all season,they should holding the hardware in the end. 

[albinomascot19]

Josh: Nice to know that you are the photographer.  Yeah, I will definitely check out the pictures.  I am looking forward to a well played game this weekend.  Lets Go Hope!

[dren]

Appartently my thoughts on Depauw are not unfounded...

I too was at the DePauw game.  We made the roadtrip from Ohio to Indiana!  During the game I noticed that there was a gentleman in a suit with his wife (I assumed) sitting at the end of our row in the HOPE section. During one of the infamous DePauw student section cheers, I turned to him and asked if he was the DU President.  He affirmed.  I then asked if he condoned this type of cheering.  He looked at me, with a baffled look, and said, "What cheers?"  I then pointed to the DU student section, and said, "That cheer, don't you hear it?"  He then said, "I don't hear anything."  But... his eyes really said it all.  He heard it.  But did NOTHING.  My letter will be written, but in a few days!

Hmmm....Let me start by agreeing with sGo Hope, and add that I was sitting next to the adult DePauw section (or one of them, anyway), and they were about as bad.  Loud, obnoxious, just plain scary.  When yelling obscenities at the refs over every step wasn't working, when calling some of our girls "dirty players" didn't work, they started swearing at their own players.  As you all know, that didn't help either!     It really was disgusting.

As to something being done -- there was a little bit done.  Someone from Hope in a position of authority, after several choruses of "Hope s#cks" and the other disgusting outbursts spoke to the NCAA rep and the AD for DePauw about it.  The choruses of "Hope s#cks" did stop, but not the other stuff, as best as I could tell.  It was an embarassment for DePauw -- why would a school put up with that at an event of this caliber???   

For any extra fuel needed against DePauw, one of the Dew Crew members down front commented that one of the costumed DePauw students looked like the Fonz and learned that this made him a "f--got." That was just one student though, which is nearly impossible to control, but the fact that similar venom became organized and consistent is the reason that the NCAA should seriously consider advising DePauw as to why home tournament games won't be played there any time soon.

Just spoke with a person who has a family member that goes to De Pauw.  They attended the game a week ago De Pauw/Marysville, and he commented the behavior on the part of De P students was worse than anything he has seen MIAA, Big 10, GLAIC etc. etc.  Language was terrible, and students started chanting for Marysville to leave at the half.  DP was up 17 at the time.
This person sat right behind the De Pauw President.  He indicated the President left at halftime, and walked right by the student section, and didn't say a thing.  To me this indicates that administration condones classless, and unsportmans like behavior.
He (my acquaintance) is sorry now he didn't say something to the President, but thought he would do it when the guy came back after the half, but the Pres. left the building.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I sent an e-mail to the NCAA and Depawu "officials" late Sunday.  I doubt I will hear back, even though I asked for a response.

Got our tickets today - sounds like Hope will have a good following. 

Go HOPE

[monsoon]

FDF (and everyone else travelling) - have a safe trip and a good time in Springfield; hopefully the Mass. version will be kinder to our women than the Ohio version was to our men!

Wish I could make the trip - esp. after what I saw from them Saturday...

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I wrote to the NCAA and DePauw on Sunday night, and just received this reply.  It sounds to me like they are genuinely concerned and I expect we'll be hearing more.

I apologize for the delay but thanks so much for the note. I chair the DIII Commissioners Associations Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct Committee and serve on the NCAAs national committee. I can also say the commissioners of these respective institutions are top notch people and will also address the matter. I'll be sure to get this to the right people to address. Thanks for bringing this forward to be addressed and for your genuine concern of the integrity of our contests.

Kindest Regards,

Chuck Mitrano
Empire 8 Commissioner

[knights2000]

Congratulations to Lisa Winkle, 1st team all region. Also, Bria Ebels, 2nd team all region. Brian Morehouse, coach of the year. Once again, congratulations to all.

[hornetiger]

I was at the game Saturday night, relatively close to the student seciton (I was in the pep band).  I don't recall ever hearing the "whore" chant.  It's not like the Hope student section were angels.  They said some stuff akin to the DePauw student section but it was usually drowned out. Some of the adult Hope fans also said some not so nice things during the first half directly addressing the refs and saying things that can't be repeated here.   I'm not saying this is the norm for the Hope fans; the clear majority of them were very nice and courteous, even nice enough to clap for the pep band after the game...we usually don't get applause like that.

From my observations it seemed like the main function of the police and security near the DePauw student section was to keep from overflow...there were several DePauw students turned away from the student section because it was full. Also,

I'm sure that if anything at the game was as bad as others indicated the NCAA representative sitting at the scorers' table would have done something.

I get the feeling that if this game was held at Hope some of the same things may have been heard from the Hope student section.

As far as attendance numbers go, there's some things to keep in mind. One, the SCAC works on a Friday-Sunday conference game rotation. The womens' games are most always before the men, starting at 6 o'clock which conflicts directly with the time most fraternities and sororities serve dinner (DePauw is 75% greek, so it makes a large difference).  Also, the Sunday games are in the afternoon when most students are doing homework / sleeping in / what have you. Also, Hope has a good 900 more students than DePauw as well. 

That being said, good luck to Hope in the Final 4 and DePauw can definitely start looking forward to next year as only of the Tigers' top 11 players graduates, and Liz Bondi still has one year of NCAA eligibility left.

[NW Hope Fan]

I get the feeling that if this game was held at Hope some of the same things may have been heard from the Hope student section.

Not a chance... You are dead wrong here... While the occasional slip may happen at Hope, I guarantee that the AD and President would nip it in the bud. I really doubt you heard anything as bad from the Hope fans as has been mentioned here about the DePauw. You should be embarrassed and coming to this site to grovel, rather that passing the buck and defending your school...

[hope1]

yeah hope sold all there tickets today 250  and maybe 2 charter buses going to

[Cowboy J]

I have been reading the many comments made by Hope fans after DePauw's hosting of the Great Lakes/Central Region Sectional this past weekend, and decided it was high time that I saddle up and offer a few observations of my own. Especially after 'NW Hope Fan' just tore apart 'hornetiger' ... who was about as complimentary of Hope people as a non-Hope person could be, and who is a first-time poster on this board. What, if it's not entirely pro-Hope, you don't want to hear it? Come on. Let's just say I don't think it's hornetiger who should be embarrassed.

Before the weekend, I simply knew of Hope as a christian school in Michigan. Being a traveler, and enjoying women's basketball, I have also had occasion to watch the Hope women play. When I saw the sectional bracket, I knew three very good teams would be knocked out, with only one advancing to Springfield, Mass. After the weekend, however, I know and have learned a lot more.

Having been at the weekend games, I must say that I am most surprised at the reaction and the constant attention given the DePauw fans ... by Hope fans. People must be scratching their heads, especially those who are used to DePauw's usual 200-or-so fans at the Lilly Center. Other people might be horrified at what they have read. To all I will simply say, relax. The Hope fans are probably accurate in some of their recounting, but important details are being left out, and some stuff is just way blown out of proportion. It's also amusing to read some of the information that is being presented as fact, when they have "known" DePauw for a game, or maybe two. Absurd.

While some people told me the chants of "Bull****" did involve a large part of the student section, the comments of "whore" were heard by some, but they came from a sprinkling of students, at best. (Not the impression one poster gave, for sure, which is an important detail to omit. One or two or five is not the entire student section chanting.) And, the police officers and the DePauw administration and the NCAA rep did nothing? Tell that to the people who received a stern talking to, or who were kicked out of the gym, in a couple of cases, or to the ones who had noise makers and other items taken away from them. And, the DePauw parents swearing at their own players? You're making a group of great people sound like a bunch of hoodlums. And lay off President Bottoms, too. He's a good man who's appreciated around here.  

And to 'andersdy' who posted something about DePauw's "tough style" which might have made the crowd more "tough" and the team using an "out-of-control, offensive foul prone style of play" with DePauw's #11 "throwing her body around"... Don't come up with some loose relationship between team and fans, and a scouting report on the Tigers and #11, after seeing them for one game, or on one weekend. That is completely ridiculous. As for the DePauw players "pushing off, at least lightly," I might agree with the lightly part, if anything. You make the Tigers out to be the devil, and your Flying Dutch, the saints. Oh, okay. I have seen enough of the DePauw women's basketball team to know that they are a gem of a group, led by a truly classy coach, and they're as within-the-rules as anybody. So, you'd be wise not to go there. As for the complaining about Bria Ebels getting her second foul, early in the game, when #11 was "throwing her body around," I can bet it wasn't #11's intent. But, as stated earlier, I have had occasion to watch Hope play, and although immensely talented, Bria Ebels is a flopper. I've seen it a number of times. Case in point: end of the first half against Wash U. Sure, the Wash U player had no business being that close, but Bria put an exclamation point on her fall. That's how I saw it, anyway. I would love to see it on tape. If I am wrong, there are others I have definitely witnessed, as a neutral observer of previous games, I might add. Although not against the rules, some people perceive flopping as being deceitful. Oops, my bad. Forgot we're talking about Hope here. No way a Flying Dutch would stoop to that level. What am I thinking?

I am quite sure DePauw might recognize ways to improve their next hosting of a women's basketball sectional. There is always room to learn. But, if the Hope fans who have gone on a letter-writing and smearing campaign have their way, it may not happen.(Although, if by their on-court performance they deserve it, I have no reason to believe the DePauw women won't host again ... at the next available time.) One of the most disappointing things to me is the unfair judgments some members of the Hope community have placed upon DePauw, its women's basketball team and its running of last weekend's sectional. Sure, there were apparently some crowd problems, but enough to warrant this type of response? Geez, unlike how some of you present yourselves, DePauw never claimed to be perfect. And to judge so quickly and to comment so harshly (poor 'hornetiger,' for one)? Doesn't sound very christian-like to me. What happened to a certain amount of tolerance and not judging and...?

As part of the hosting process, I would think DePauw would sit down and evaluate the job that was done ... the goods and the bads. As for Hope, I think some soul searching needs to be done by them, too. At least by the ones who have been bashing DePauw to no end. (Did you really need to take the information to the men's MIAA site, and then continue to post stuff there after Pat Coleman at least twice told you to keep the information on the underutilized women's site?) It makes one wonder if there is not a greater mission at hand. Bash DePauw into the ground so they can never host again, and glorify Hope so they get an opportunity at every turn. To that end (glorifying Hope), I might add... I think a separate posting board within Great Lakes should be added for Hope fans alone. If I were a non-Hope part of the MIAA, I would get tired of the constant lovefest. "We're the best, Hope fans." "Gotta love Hope fans!" "The Flying Dutch are all that." While I think it's great to love one's school, most ALL people love their schools, and the people who make up their schools. What's really meaningful is when it moves from "self-proclaimed greatness" to outsiders jumping on board. The former gets a bit tiring. But that's just me, a DePauw fan, talking.

I will close with the following: Alright. Enough. We get it. I can't imagine another way you Hope fans could re-word your feelings of disgust about the DePauw fans and DePauw's handling of them. Much to your dismay, the DePauw people at the games would probably agree with some of your points, and beg to differ on the others. Forgive our imperfections. Also, please forgive this first-time poster for the length of this writing, but I wanted to cover a lot of territory before hopping off of my horse for what might be the last time. I invite any Hope posters ... you know who you are... to get off of your (high) horses, too. After all, you have other business at hand.

Not holier than thou, but one proud Tiger fan. Congratulations on a most successful year, Coach Huffman and Co. I wouldn't trade you for the world!

Cowboy J   

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I will close with the following: Alright. Enough. We get it. I can't imagine another way you Hope fans could re-word your feelings of disgust about the DePauw fans and DePauw's handling of them. Much to your dismay, the DePauw people at the games would probably agree with some of your points, and beg to differ on the others. Forgive our imperfections.    

CJ - I hear what you're saying, and in your shoes I would be defensive as well - but it doesn't change the behaviour we endured.  For me the really frustrating part of all this, has been the lack of what you say in the paragraph I quoted - that the DePauw fans would agree with some of our points.  Lacking that, it appears that this must be the norm and DePauw fans just accept it.  It's good to know that is not necessarily the case.

[Old Gold]

Actually, Flying Dutch Fan, you would never be in CJ's shoes since it appears that Hope College fans never exhibit bad fan behavior and this discussion wouldn't exist with you on the defensive.

First congratulations to the Hope players on a great season. You should be proud of your accomplishments.

Second, I am absolutely appalled. Yes, appalled that a small group of emotionally-charged fans would use a public forum to make accusations and broad generalizations regarding the DePauw administration and their actions or, in your view, inaction during Saturday night's NCAA game.

Profanity from fans, coaches and players shouldn't be tolerated in college arenas. Unfortunately, it is prevalent throughout the country. If you're a fan of college basketball, then you'd have to be ignorant to think that the only place it occurs is in Greencastle, Indiana.

That's not a defense for it, but it's an issue with which college administrators across the country are dealing and your assaults on the entire DePauw community are incredibly judgmental at the very least.

The DePauw administrators did nothing? That is simply not true! I saw students escorted from the game. I also saw the athletic director address individual students when their individual behavior was identified and that individual behavior then ceased. Additionally, multiple readings of the sportsmanship statement occurred throughout the game by the public address announcer.

Yes, there were "BS" cheers. Perhaps three in the first half and one in the second half and they lasted about two or three seconds before the students policed themselves.

There's a mighty broad brush covered in orange and blue being used to paint the entire DePauw community as irresponsible. That painting is as irresponsible as, say, one or two students screaming "whore."

Andersdy, you might want to clarify your post about the DePauw players having a style of play. If you are implying that the DePauw coaches "teach" a certain style, then you are on an island, my friend. Kris Huffman and her teams are among the most respected on any level and they play the game fairly and with integrity.

A question to all Hope fans who were at the game.

What would Hope have done other than remove spectators from the game, read the sportsmanship announcement several times and address individual behavior in order to put an end to it?

It's easy to be critical when you think you should be the host of the entire tournament, but it's much more difficult to actually present solutions and no one here has done that other than to say DePauw did nothing.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Second, I am absolutely appalled. Yes, appalled that a small group of emotionally-charged fans would use a public forum to make accusations and broad generalizations regarding the DePauw administration and their actions or, in your view, inaction during Saturday night's NCAA game.

You've made our point - you seem to be more upset by our pointing out what happened than you are by the actual events. 

Profanity from fans, coaches and players shouldn't be tolerated in college arenas. Unfortunately, it is prevalent throughout the country. If you're a fan of college basketball, then you'd have to be ignorant to think that the only place it occurs is in Greencastle, Indiana.

Well it doesn't occur in the MIAA - you may find that hard to believe, but we (the fans of teams in this league) cheer passionately for our teams, and get upset and yell at the officials, all without using that kind of language.  In fact I have witnessed the fans policing themselves in the rare occaision when the bad language occurs.

The DePauw administrators did nothing? That is simply not true! I saw students escorted from the game. I also saw the athletic director address individual students when their individual behavior was identified and that individual behavior then ceased. Additionally, multiple readings of the sportsmanship statement occurred throughout the game by the public address announcer.

And the President of DePauw was questioned during the game about the cheers, which he claimed to not hear, and proceeded to leave the building.

[Old Gold]

I've made your point? You can't be serious!

I believe that I made it very clear that profanity shouldn't be tolerated. This is for obvious reasons and I think most of the posters to this site would agree.

Had you stopped there you wouldn't have gotten much of an argument. However, when you (the small group of posters here) chose to attack the DePauw administration and the NCAA Representative for inaction you also chose to distort the facts and simply make it up as your wrote.

You write in one sentence that it doesn't happen in the MIAA and then in the next sentence you write that on the rare occasion that it does happen, the fans police themselves. Which is it? It never happens or it rarely happens? If it rarely happens then it does, in fact, happen. The same could be said by supporters of DePauw University and the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference schools.

The NCAA's sportsmanship statement also denounces "other intimidating actions directed at officials, student-athletes, coaches or team representatives." I believe that fans, coaches and student-athletes yelling at officials without profanity, is also unsportsmanlike. Would you not agree on that?

I was not privy to the alleged conversation with the DePauw president. But if it happened after the DePauw and NCAA officials did their jobs and addressed the language issues, then what would you have wanted him to say.

To the Hope players, good luck this weekend!