WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[David Collinge]

This weekend's losses by Hope and Calvin put an end to a really impressive streak in my opinion.  The MIAA (all Hope and Calvin) had played for a Sectional Championship 6 years in a row, and 7 of the previous 8 tournaments.

Going back to 1999, the MIAA had a representative in 10 of 12 Sweet 16's.  Only missing out in 2001 and 2004. That is really impressive.

Just a point of observation: the UAA has had at least one representative in the sweet sixteen every year from 1994 onwards, except for 2002 and 2005, when WashU lost to the eventual national champions Stevens Point and Millikan in the second round.

The NCAC has had at least one team in the Sweet Sixteen since....since....oh, never mind.  

[wiz]

Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.

Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

[GoKnights68]

Off topic, but in case any one didn't know, Davenport's women team, an NAIA team located near Grand Rapids, is 33-0.   The NAIA starts their national tourney this Wednesday in which they have 32 teams.  It'd be cool if they complete their season with a national championship and go 38-0.

[sac]

The GVSU women also made the D2 field.  Some good women's and men's small college basketball around Grand Rapids in recent years.

[realist]

Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.

Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

Wiz:  You really need to get a grip or perhaps mature some.  

Why would anyone fault either Hope or Calvin's coaches.  Both of them have done excellent jobs.  Not only this year, but for quite a few years now.  Both programs are proven winners.  This past Sat. Calvin got beat by the number 5/6 team in the country, and Calvin made a game of it.  No shame in what I witnessed.  A bounce here, a put back there, and they are still playing.  Reading the recap on Hope, by people that were there again no shame.  Hope came, and Hope played.  No one wins everytime.  

There is a considerable difference currently between the Calvin's mens and womens programs.  Frankly there is no excuse for either program to fall below a 20 win season repeatedly.   The men's bball team is one of the few sports offered at Calvin that has not made it to post season play this year, and for many they go repeatedly.  If you want to win you have to make winning a priority.  Frankly I just don't see that, and I don't hear that from KVS.   Yes, I hear the lip service to winning, but I also have heard 5 years of repeated excuses about why the program falls below 20 wins.  I have watched 15 yearrs of essentially the same game plan.  Nothing new, nothing bold, nothing creative, nothing original.  Few changes in the starting line up.  Once he makes a decision, it's made.  
I watch KVS, and I watch his players, and frankly it just doesn't look like either he or his players are having fun.  Against Hope he came out and coached not to lose in the last game.  This is in contrast to the first game where the team really played to win.  
If you are happy with KVS, and his record that is fine with me.  

I think his record the past 5 years stinks, and is an embarassment to the entire college.  

 

For Calvin, and Coach Ross I surely hope we don't spiral down into accepting the past 5 years performance of the men's team as the new level for good or acceptable.

[pointlem]

Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.

Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

Wiz:  You really need to get a grip or perhaps mature some.  

Realist, I appreciate your comments on the women's coaches . . . though I took Wiz's comment to be tongue-in-cheek.

[realist]

Gosh I totally missed the 

[KnightSlappy]

Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.

Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

Wiz:  You really need to get a grip or perhaps mature some.  

Why would anyone fault either Hope or Calvin's coaches.  Both of them have done excellent jobs.  Not only this year, but for quite a few years now.  Both programs are proven winners.  This past Sat. Calvin got beat by the number 5/6 team in the country, and Calvin made a game of it.  No shame in what I witnessed.  A bounce here, a put back there, and they are still playing.  Reading the recap on Hope, by people that were there again no shame.  Hope came, and Hope played.  No one wins everytime.  

There is a considerable difference currently between the Calvin's mens and womens programs.  Frankly there is no excuse for either program to fall below a 20 win season repeatedly.   The men's bball team is one of the few sports offered at Calvin that has not made it to post season play this year, and for many they go repeatedly.  If you want to win you have to make winning a priority.  Frankly I just don't see that, and I don't hear that from KVS.   Yes, I hear the lip service to winning, but I also have heard 5 years of repeated excuses about why the program falls below 20 wins.  I have watched 15 yearrs of essentially the same game plan.  Nothing new, nothing bold, nothing creative, nothing original.  Few changes in the starting line up.  Once he makes a decision, it's made.  
I watch KVS, and I watch his players, and frankly it just doesn't look like either he or his players are having fun.  Against Hope he came out and coached not to lose in the last game.  This is in contrast to the first game where the team really played to win.  
If you are happy with KVS, and his record that is fine with me.  

I think his record the past 5 years stinks, and is an embarassment to the entire college.  

 

For Calvin, and Coach Ross I surely hope we don't spiral down into accepting the past 5 years performance of the men's team as the new level for good or acceptable.

When was the last time Coach Ross won 20 games without having a league MVP on his team?

[bballfan13]

Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.

Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

Wiz:  You really need to get a grip or perhaps mature some.  

Why would anyone fault either Hope or Calvin's coaches.  Both of them have done excellent jobs.  Not only this year, but for quite a few years now.  Both programs are proven winners.  This past Sat. Calvin got beat by the number 5/6 team in the country, and Calvin made a game of it.  No shame in what I witnessed.  A bounce here, a put back there, and they are still playing.  Reading the recap on Hope, by people that were there again no shame.  Hope came, and Hope played.  No one wins everytime.  

There is a considerable difference currently between the Calvin's mens and womens programs.  Frankly there is no excuse for either program to fall below a 20 win season repeatedly.   The men's bball team is one of the few sports offered at Calvin that has not made it to post season play this year, and for many they go repeatedly.  If you want to win you have to make winning a priority.  Frankly I just don't see that, and I don't hear that from KVS.   Yes, I hear the lip service to winning, but I also have heard 5 years of repeated excuses about why the program falls below 20 wins.  I have watched 15 yearrs of essentially the same game plan.  Nothing new, nothing bold, nothing creative, nothing original.  Few changes in the starting line up.  Once he makes a decision, it's made.  
I watch KVS, and I watch his players, and frankly it just doesn't look like either he or his players are having fun.  Against Hope he came out and coached not to lose in the last game.  This is in contrast to the first game where the team really played to win.  
If you are happy with KVS, and his record that is fine with me.  

I think his record the past 5 years stinks, and is an embarassment to the entire college.  

 

For Calvin, and Coach Ross I surely hope we don't spiral down into accepting the past 5 years performance of the men's team as the new level for good or acceptable.

When was the last time Coach Ross won 20 games without having a league MVP on his team?

The last time was 04-05.  Calvin went 25-5 under Coach Ross with no MVP (Albion's Sarah Caskey was MVP).  And the year before that in 03-04, Calvin went 23-4 with no MVP (Alma's Karen Hall was MVP)

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I took sometime to look at the stats for the 5 Hope seniors and their careers playing for the Flying Dutch.  Looking at the team over those four years, the record is pretty amazing:

	Won	Lost	%
Overall record	117	8	0.936
Home	71	1	0.986
Away	39	4	0.907
Neutral	7	3	0.700
MIAA play	62	2	0.969
MIAA Tournament	11	1	0.917
NCAA Tournament	12	4	0.750

I'll post their individual career stats separately.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Looking at the individuals stats for the 5 Hope seniors, I compiled their rank  for the various stat categoreis - top 10 for both season and career.  It's amazing that this group ranks in nearly every category.

Carrie Snikkers

Category	Season	Career
Points	4th, 5th	2nd
PPG	10th	3rd
FG Made	4th, 6th, 10th	2nd
FG Attempted	4th	3rd
3FG Made		8th
3FG Attempted		7th
3FG %		9th
FT Made	8th	8th
FT Attempted		8th
FT%	10th
Rebounds	8th	5th
RPG		6th
Blocks	1st, 2nd, 7th, 9th	1st
Steals		10th
Games Started		10th

Erika Bruinsma

Category	Season	Career
Blocks		8th
Games played		5th

Miranda DeKuiper

Category	Season	Career
Games played		1st

Rachel Kutney

Category	Season	Career
FG %	3rd	5th
Blocks		10th
Games played		7th

Lauren Geers
Lauren did not break the top 10 in any category, despite playing in 113 games, averaging 13.4 minutes per game, and typically out-hustling everyone on the floor.

[realist]

Very good seasons for both Calvin and Hope.  Thought for sure one of them would advance, but just wasn't meant to be.

Hey, realist, don't you think those coaches should be fired?

Wiz:  You really need to get a grip or perhaps mature some.  

Why would anyone fault either Hope or Calvin's coaches.  Both of them have done excellent jobs.  Not only this year, but for quite a few years now.  Both programs are proven winners.  This past Sat. Calvin got beat by the number 5/6 team in the country, and Calvin made a game of it.  No shame in what I witnessed.  A bounce here, a put back there, and they are still playing.  Reading the recap on Hope, by people that were there again no shame.  Hope came, and Hope played.  No one wins everytime.  

There is a considerable difference currently between the Calvin's mens and womens programs.  Frankly there is no excuse for either program to fall below a 20 win season repeatedly.   The men's bball team is one of the few sports offered at Calvin that has not made it to post season play this year, and for many they go repeatedly.  If you want to win you have to make winning a priority.  Frankly I just don't see that, and I don't hear that from KVS.   Yes, I hear the lip service to winning, but I also have heard 5 years of repeated excuses about why the program falls below 20 wins.  I have watched 15 yearrs of essentially the same game plan.  Nothing new, nothing bold, nothing creative, nothing original.  Few changes in the starting line up.  Once he makes a decision, it's made.  
I watch KVS, and I watch his players, and frankly it just doesn't look like either he or his players are having fun.  Against Hope he came out and coached not to lose in the last game.  This is in contrast to the first game where the team really played to win.  
If you are happy with KVS, and his record that is fine with me.  

I think his record the past 5 years stinks, and is an embarassment to the entire college.  

 

For Calvin, and Coach Ross I surely hope we don't spiral down into accepting the past 5 years performance of the men's team as the new level for good or acceptable.

When was the last time Coach Ross won 20 games without having a league MVP on his team?

KS:  You really might not want to continue this comparison between Coach Ross, and KVS.

In the last 8 years:           Ross                  KVS
20 win seasons                    6                     2
MVP"S                                   4                     0   (KVS  4 in 14 years)

Ross inherited Lisa Winkle for his first 2 mvp's, but than KVS also inherited Aaron Winkle for his first 2 mvp's as well.

Trying to make one coach look bad to make another coach look decent is a losing proposition.

[KnightSlappy]

I'm not setting out to make anyone look bad, just wondering if being blessed with two of the best players in the team's history has more to do with the record than simply coaching.

[wiz]

I'm not setting out to make anyone look bad, just wondering if being blessed with two of the best players in the team's history has more to do with the record than simply coaching.

Exactly

[NW Hope Fan]

I'm not setting out to make anyone look bad, just wondering if being blessed with two of the best players in the team's history has more to do with the record than simply coaching.

Exactly

I guess that makes their 20 win seasons equal if you take away those two girls. But he did get CV to Calvin, so you got to give him that right? So 4 is better than 2... But this is a silly argument