WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[HOPEful]

The MIAA must have had a lot of trouble with coin flips in the past to add an additional tiebreaker. 

Not trouble, but it's happened quite a few times. For years the MIAA was Hope and Calvin at the top, then everyone else. Now it's Hope and Trine, then everyone. (Not a dig at Albion or Calvin, I promise...)

So it's more common than most for two teams to finish undefeated in the conference outside of splitting the series head-to-head. And giving weight to the second half of the season at least feels slightly less random than a coin flip.

I agree with you though, the MIAA website leaves quite a bit to be desired when it comes to things like this or trying to find historical information.

[scottiedawg]

I posted elsewhere, but I'm VERY excited to see Morehouse go to school on that Trine tape. Trine played awesome and created most of what Hope did poorly. That said, Trine's approach was very savvy. I think Coach can eliminate a lot of those advantages going forward. It's a treat and tremendous benefit/challenge/information-gathering-opportunity to be able to play a team of Trine's caliber during the regular season.

[sac]

My first caveat is that I may be looking at the mens tie-breaker and at one time the MIAA had different tie-breaks for mens and women basketball.  I thought they fixed that and somewhere in my hundreds of messages is the answer, but this is the one I found.

There are actually 8 levels of tie-breaker, I am nearly certain its impossible to get to needing a coin flip without something weird like cancelled games.
1.  Head-to-head
2.  combined record vs team ahead in standings
3.  record against individual teams in descending standings
4.  total conference road wins
5.  road record against each team start at top
6.  record in 2nd half of season
7.  in-region win total
8.  coin toss

I think the last two were added several years ago on the womens side, then adopted by the men a year or two later.  Simply, no one liked the coin toss.



Not sure how #6 gets interpreted with cancellations, rescheduled games and the MIAA's use of a non mirrored schedule.

[Roundball999]

Kind of another stinker of a shooting game for Hope's normally sharp shooting team in a 51-38 win over a very tough Albion team.  But my take away is positive in that the typically strong defense kept them in the game (38 pts allowed against a good team!) and the depth played out when Hope outscored Albion 15-4 in the 4th period.  This is a formula that bodes well for the post season in that a bad shooting game doesn't necessarily finish your season unless perhaps you're playing one of the very toughest teams out there, like a Trine.  Nice gritty win for the Dutch.

[scottiedawg]

Hope loses 49 votes and is now ranked #3 in the D3Hoops.com poll.

Trine gains 44 votes and is now ranked #2.

Albion loses 4 votes and is 9th in Others Receiving Votes (ORV).

Calvin loses its single vote.

[HOPEful]

Hope loses 49 votes and is now ranked #3 in the D3Hoops.com poll.

Trine gains 44 votes and is now ranked #2.

Albion loses 4 votes and is 9th in Others Receiving Votes (ORV).

Calvin loses its single vote.

CNU hasn't played anyone noteworthy all year. Hope lost to the now #2 team in the country after beating them on their court.

Personally, I'd put Hope #1, Trine #2, and Simpson #3

[pointlem]

CNU hasn't played anyone noteworthy all year. Hope lost to the now #2 team in the country after beating them on their court.

Personally, I'd put Hope #1, Trine #2, and Simpson #3

I see that Massey Ratings still has Hope #1 (by a comfortable margin), with Trine #2, and CN #3.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Hope loses 49 votes and is now ranked #3 in the D3Hoops.com poll.

Trine gains 44 votes and is now ranked #2.

Albion loses 4 votes and is 9th in Others Receiving Votes (ORV).

Calvin loses its single vote.

CNU hasn't played anyone noteworthy all year. Hope lost to the now #2 team in the country after beating them on their court.

Personally, I'd put Hope #1, Trine #2, and Simpson #3

This is how I've been voting since the first Hope-Trine game.  Nothing changed this week.

[Roundball999]

Interestingly, today's WBCA poll had CNU #1, Transylvania #2, Hope #3, Whitman #4, Trine #5 and Simpson #6.

Having watched all these teams at least a little bit, I just don't see it that way based on the eye test.  WBCA seems to emphasize an undefeated record and I can sympathize with that; those teams have beaten everyone put in front of them.  It will all get sorted out within 2 months!

[HOPEful]

Interestingly, today's WBCA poll had CNU #1, Transylvania #2, Hope #3, Whitman #4, Trine #5 and Simpson #6.

Having watched all these teams at least a little bit, I just don't see it that way based on the eye test.  WBCA seems to emphasize an undefeated record and I can sympathize with that; those teams have beaten everyone put in front of them.  It will all get sorted out within 2 months!

I basically said the same thing to my wife, whose anger was noticeable when she learned Hope dropped to #3 after winning 61 straight games. Assuming both teams take care of business, the winner of the Hope/Trine MIAA championship game will be set up just fine for the playoffs.

Still, I don't understand how anyone that has seen or has basic understanding of all the top 10ish programs puts CNU or Transylvania ahead of Hope right now. Hope is the deepest team in D3 women's basketball that I can ever remember. So... if you're ranking someone ahead of them, you are saying that you believe that teams starting 5 is just that much better than Hope's. With all due respect to Sondra Fan, Anaya Simmons, and Natalie Terwilliger, i'll take Voskuil, Schoonveld, and Muller over them any day. The way Kelsi Taylor has been playing, I'd take Tara, Kelsi and Kayla at Trine over them too. But if we're judging just by best starting 3, I'll take Taylor, Nash, and Kincaid at Simpson over anyone. Simpson only really plays 7 deep though... which I think would be a problem against Hope.

As a Hope fan, I would worry much more about facing Trine or Simpson in the playoffs than I would facing CNU.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Olivet @ Adrian and Trine @ Albion games have both been reschduled for tomorrow night (2/3) at 7:30 pm

[HOPEful]

Personally, I'd put Hope #1, Trine #2, and Simpson #3

This is how I've been voting since the first Hope-Trine game.  Nothing changed this week.

I've always liked you Ryan

[scottiedawg]

Transylvania is the one I REALLY don't get.

CNU hasn't played the greatest slate, but they've buzz-sawed through the majority and pass the eye test.

Simpson has a pretty strong batch of wins.

But 14/16 of Transylvania's wins (see below), I'm pretty sure most of the top 10 go 14/14 against. Which means that they're not useful for differentiating between teams. Undefeated can come with a lot of smoke

Rose-Hulman
Rose-Hulman
Piedmont
Bluffton
Bluffton
Berea
Wilmington OH
Hanover
Anderson IN
Capital
Franklin
Manchester
E Nazarene
Spalding

Sure a road win over Tufts and a home win over John Carroll are very impressive, but I think people see 16-0 and get googly eyes. If Transylvania had a single loss against say a Babson/Bowdoin/Pacific type, I bet they're ranked around 10 (which IMO would be too low).

Arguably Hope and Trine own the 2 most impressive wins in all of D3 this year. Hope winning @ Trine, and Trine winning @ Hope.

[AlwaysHope]

Sydney Vis has committed to Hope College.  6'2" forward, and 1,000 point scorer for South Christian HS:  https://twitter.com/sydneyvis

With all the seniors Hope has graduating, including the entire starting lineup, this is welcomed news!

[Roundball999]

Nice game for the Dutch last night with an 89-41 win vs. a solid Alma squad.  Hope put this one away early, breaking out of a bit of a shooting slump that started with the Trine game.  Hope had slipped from #1 in the nation in team 3pt % to number 3, but last night returned to form hitting nearly 50% from the field overall including 47% rom beyond the arc.  Hope is noted for its ball movement and making the extra pass, but it seemed to me watching the St Mary's game that they were almost over-passing, continuing to move the ball even when they had a wide open three.  Perhaps that was by design, given their overmatched opponent.  I think sometimes when you don't take that open three when it's there, you become too deliberate when you do eventually shoot rather than shooting within the flow of the game.  In any case everyone played with no one getting more than 19 minutes and scoring was spread among 14 players.  Rivalry game at Calvin tomorrow!