WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[AlwaysHope]

I agree completely, pointlem.  With six freshmen and three sophmores on Hope's varsity this year, including two freshman starting at the guard position, and freshman "bigs" like Voskuil (6'3") and Thomas (6'2"), along with soph Tolbert getting a lot of playing time this year, the future looks bright.

Plus we have MIAA first team Frankie coming back for her senior year.

Now if we can just add this player...http://localsportsjournal.com/2018/02/senior-standouts-beckman-mussell-ready-for-one-more-tournament-ride-with-shelby/  I saw where one publication had her listed as a Miss Basketball candidate.

[Swish3]

The game was just about as tough as a lot of us were expecting, Mr. Ypsi . . . though a bunch of missed open layups and 12 missed free throws didn't help. But defense offset that, and with Francesca on the floor instead of the bench, Hope seemed the better team. Olivia's 6 blocks, 7 rebounds, and two clutch free throws with the game on the line were also big . . . though not bigger than Kenedy swishing two free throws with 18 seconds left. Finally, a shout-out to Celina King, who was pulled into the game to shoot two free throws after a teammate had a poke in the eye knocking out a contact. Not only did she calmly swish the two shots, she also did the same with an open 3 just seconds later . . . and those 5 quick points, in the end, were the margin of victory.

CNU's press seemed brilliantly effective, forcing Hope into long passes and shortening the shot clock, and with few easy baskets coming off it. I thought it kept them in the game.

Massey has TMC, which earlier this season defeated CNU 86 to 53, a heavy (81%) favorite tomorrow night. But if Hope can stay out of first half foul trouble and shoot like it's capable . . .

The top five teams are all still playing in the Elite 8 . . . but with #3 TMC vs. #4 Hope, the top 4 cannot make it to next weekend.

You make it sound like CNU was struggling to stay w/in 10 points of Hope...they press the entire game, every game...it's what they do.

[Swish3]

The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27

Key stats of the game:

Fouls
CNU - 28
Hope - 14

Free Throws
CNU - 8/10
Hope - 22/34

[Flying Dutch Fan]

The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27

Key stats of the game:

Fouls
CNU - 28
Hope - 14

Free Throws
CNU - 8/10
Hope - 22/34

Not surprising, considering CNU is 406th out of 450 schools in fouls per game (avg 20.1).  They play an aggressive pressing defense and generate a lot of fouls.  Hope on the other hand is 88th out of 450 in fouls per game (avg 15.5).

[Swish3]

The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27

Key stats of the game:

Fouls
CNU - 28
Hope - 14

Free Throws
CNU - 8/10
Hope - 22/34

Not surprising, considering CNU is 406th out of 450 schools in fouls per game (avg 20.1).  They play an aggressive pressing defense and generate a lot of fouls.  Hope on the other hand is 88th out of 450 in fouls per game (avg 15.5).

I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

[Roundball999]

The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27

Key stats of the game:

Fouls
CNU - 28
Hope - 14

Free Throws
CNU - 8/10
Hope - 22/34

Not surprising, considering CNU is 406th out of 450 schools in fouls per game (avg 20.1).  They play an aggressive pressing defense and generate a lot of fouls.  Hope on the other hand is 88th out of 450 in fouls per game (avg 15.5).

I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

If you watched the game objectively you saw that CNU was far more physical and they pressed all over the court, the entire game.  There is no rule that dictates the proportion of fouls between teams.  In my opinion the refs called it as it played out on the court.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

It's only a problem if the game was being called unfairly.  I thought the officiating for all 3 games at the De Vos this weekend was done very well and fairly.

This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Guessing you meant to type a different word, but I actually like this a lot better

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Yeah... even "handed" ... oops. Trying to do too much. I should be ignoring the boards today to get all my work done for this week. We see how well that is working.

[Swish3]

The key stats of the game...
Turnovers
Hope                 21
Thomas More 14

Points off TO's
Hope                 11
Thomas More 27

Key stats of the game:

Fouls
CNU - 28
Hope - 14

Free Throws
CNU - 8/10
Hope - 22/34

Not surprising, considering CNU is 406th out of 450 schools in fouls per game (avg 20.1).  They play an aggressive pressing defense and generate a lot of fouls.  Hope on the other hand is 88th out of 450 in fouls per game (avg 15.5).

I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

If you watched the game objectively you saw that CNU was far more physical and they pressed all over the court, the entire game.  There is no rule that dictates the proportion of fouls between teams.  In my opinion the refs called it as it played out on the court.

Thanks for the enlightening words....

[Swish3]

This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Go back and read what I said, Dave...I said I expect CNU to have more fouls than their opponents, but not twice as many.  Per FDF, they average 20.1 fouls per game...being called for 8 above their average is a lot...Hope shooting 24 more free throws is hard to defend.   

[Swish3]

I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

It's only a problem if the game was being called unfairly.  I thought the officiating for all 3 games at the De Vos this weekend was done very well and fairly.

Easy for you to say...anyone able to dig up the replay of Fancher being knocked down while attempting a 3 w/14 seconds to go?  At game speed, it looked like an obvious foul...if so, it simply has to be called.

This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Guessing you meant to type a different word, but I actually like this a lot better

[Swish3]

I expect CNU to have more fouls, but not twice as many...the difference in their average is less than five per game, yet they called CNU for 14 more than Hope...that's a problem.

It's only a problem if the game was being called unfairly.  I thought the officiating for all 3 games at the De Vos this weekend was done very well and fairly.

Easy for you to say...anyone able to dig up the replay of Fancher being knocked down while attempting a 3 w/14 seconds to go?  At game speed, it looked like an obvious foul...if so, it simply has to be called.

This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Guessing you meant to type a different word, but I actually like this a lot better

Just watched it on YouTube...looks like the Hope defender got under Fancher on the follow through and the ref was literally right in front of them...that's a terrible no call at a crucial time.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Go back and read what I said, Dave...I said I expect CNU to have more fouls than their opponents, but not twice as many.  Per FDF, they average 20.1 fouls per game...being called for 8 above their average is a lot...Hope shooting 24 more free throws is hard to defend.   

You can expect more calls... you just can't also have a line of demarcation as to how many is enough. A team shooting more FTs is easy to defend if a team is fouling more often especially on drives by Hope. The discrepency... needs to stop being an arguing point. FTs come from more fouls being called and another team being both aggressive on defense and the other on offense. It happens. It is part of the game. The fact they should be closer than they are is an argument I don't like. It makes it seem the officials should even the calls out or the FT attempts. I think that is a BS reasoning.

[Dutchfan]

This ^^^ ... too many people think fouls should be equal. TOO many people (drives me nuts at games when that is a popular call out).

Hope played well, but CNU was aggressive and usually aggressive teams cause more fouls. Kind of like seeing a foul discrepancy for a team playing against a man-to-man and attacking versus the other team playing against a zone and passing around the perimeter. No, not saying that's what happened in this game, but point out that styles of play dictate foul totals... not rules that say it is supposed to be even headed.

Go back and read what I said, Dave...I said I expect CNU to have more fouls than their opponents, but not twice as many.  Per FDF, they average 20.1 fouls per game...being called for 8 above their average is a lot...Hope shooting 24 more free throws is hard to defend.   

Swish, the referees are not there to keep the score close or give teams an equal number of free throws. The referees are there to enforce the rules of the game. Nothing more, nothing less. On top of that, they are only human, even more so at the division three level.