WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[sac]

Brittany Z made a significant announcement on twitter this morning
https://twitter.com/Bkb1243

I'm not positive but I think she's still on leave from her surgery

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Brittany Z made a significant announcement on twitter this morning
https://twitter.com/Bkb1243

I'm not positive but I think she's still on leave from her surgery

That's an incredible story!  A tweet lower down seems to indicate she is or will soon be back on the sidelines.  Glad to see everyone is healthy and safe!

[Roundball999]

Brittany Z made a significant announcement on twitter this morning
https://twitter.com/Bkb1243

I'm not positive but I think she's still on leave from her surgery

Wow, wasn't aware of that.  Prayers are with her, reminds us that basketball is just a diversion from what's really important.

[Roundball999]

Strong 71-33 win for Hope over Alma last night, it was 41-9 at the half despite going deep into the bench early.  Yikes!  All 16 on the roster played between 9-17 minutes.  Alma is no powerhouse but they have some tight losses against some very good teams along with a win over Wisconsin Lutheran. 

This sets up Saturday's game at Olivet where Coach Morehouse will go for win #600 in record fashion.

[gordonmann]

it is quite interesting how each "data source" both provides different information, and has different applications:

what follows is a gross oversimplification

D3Hoops.com poll - human sentiment on the best teams, no bearing on NCAA tournament seeding, selections
Massey - computer sentiment on the best teams, also no bearing on NCAA stuff
NCAA Regional Rankings - best teams according to NCAA formulas, very direct bearing on NCAA selections and seeding

So while I like to pontificate on Massey's usefullness (especially when MY alma mater is #1 :-) ), much/most of the inputs into Massey ratings/rankings, have zero input on the actual NCAA tournament.


I think in general I don't like how polls have such inherent biases in them.
--preseason rankings carry such "default weight" on ALL future rankings
--pollsters assume a team that lost should move down (you see this in college football rankings too)
--pollsters "mostly" assume teams with fewer losses are better, when a 5 point loss on the road against team #20 is probably "better" than a 20 point win at home against team #120.


that said, I would skew probably too far in the opposite direction, and rely solely on the computers!

I hope our voters make decisions on more than sentiment, but I get the gist of what you're saying and understand why someone would value computer rankings over polls. I think it's fun to look at both and appreciate the work you've done on the former.

Your point about neither the poll or the computer rankings influencing NCAA tournament selections or seeding can't be repeated enough. Years ago, when No. 1 Hope went to No. 2 Howard Payne to play in the Elite 8, I was baffled how the top two teams, both of whom were undefeated, played each other in the Round of 8. Someone on the NCAA committee at the time told me later that they had Hope as the eighth best team in the field, despite our ranking, so the match-up made sense.

Trine fans can look at last year's second round matchup with Thomas More and sympathize.

There's a lot of variety on how different voters approach their ballot and I won't pretend to know how they all do it. I'm thankful for their time and think they generally do a really good job, especially when you look at how the aggregate result across all voters compares to NCAA tournament performance.

As discussed on another board, I agree that the preseason poll can weigh too heavily on where teams are ranked, even now, especially on the women's side where teams from certain conferences can start highly ranked, win nearly all of their games and float even higher to the top. And, no, I'm on talking about Hope.

I think our pollsters generally do a pretty good job discerning between a good loss and a bad one. We can undoubtedly find examples in either direction, but look at how Amherst was affected by losing to Tufts. They only dropped from #4 to #5. Certainly could have stayed No. 4 and I suspect they didn't drop on a lot of ballots.  Similarly I was concerned that Albright would plunge deep into "Also Receiving Votes" when they lost to Messiah on the road. Instead they dropped from No. 24 to just outside the poll. Personally it's not unusual for me to move a ranked team up after a close loss to a team with a much higher ranking.

I think our pollsters also do a nice job not overvaluing winning percentage over quality of results. We have a bunch of teams in our rankings with multiple losses because most of those losses come to really good teams and are coupled with good wins. Three- and four-loss teams (George Fox, UW Lax) sit in front of one-loss teams like Gettysburg, Misericordia or Cortland. Teams like Texas-Dallas or Illinois Wesleyan who could be written off entirely are still getting votes.

Two quick side notes:

* Thanks to ScottieDawg for livening up these boards with thoughtful, interesting and respectful analysis. I've missed this type of banter as message board activity has trailed off over time and have enjoyed the last couple days. Keep it going!

* Saturdays are hectic with all the games, but congratulations to Brian Morehouse on the impending milestone victory. The best part of covering Division III basketball has been getting to meet and know coaches who are great leaders. He's built a program that's the model for consistent excellence -- no one has more Top 25 appearances than Hope -- and is a true gentleman. Hope is extremely fortunate to have him, and I suspect he would say the same thing about Hope.

[Roundball999]

Gordon, I'm glad you enjoy the debate and banter, even when some of us get a little passionate about our favorites!  It's probably not said enough, but we fans are so fortunate to have D3hoops and the team that makes it go.

Thanks also for the kind but well deserved words about Coach Morehouse.  He deserves the accolades for the program he has built and sustained at Hope but that's secondary to being a truly kind and genuine person.

[scottiedawg]

Any way to get 1st half stats for the year? Hope's early game defense is stupid good. Olivet's offense isn't good, but they've only taken 7 shots and scored 2 points. 1st quarter almost done.

[scottiedawg]

Hope defense by quarter:
1st = 9.71 points allowed
2nd = 9.18
3rd = 12.65
4th = 10.47

Hope offense by quarter:
1st = 19.53
2nd = 19.00
3rd = 17.41
4th = 19.12

Hope Point Differential by quarter:
1st = +9.82
2nd = +9.82
3rd = +4.76
4th = +8.65

Point differential as percentage of points given up:
1st = +101%
2nd = +107%
3rd = +38%
4th = +83%

After today's game:
Hope outscores opponents:
by 112% in the 1st quarter
100% in the 2nd
44% in the 3rd
86% in the 4th

[Roundball999]

Any way to get 1st half stats for the year? Hope's early game defense is stupid good. Olivet's offense isn't good, but they've only taken 7 shots and scored 2 points. 1st quarter almost done.

Yikes, Hope playing scary good.  Guess they're motivated to get Coach Mo #600.  Currently 35-8 early in the 2nd.

[Dutchfan]

The fastest Women's basketball coaches to 600 wins across all divisions...

691   Mark Campbell of Union (TN)
706   Nancy Fahey of Washington U in St. Louis/Illinois U.
711   Gary Field of Southern Maine
716   Geno Auriemma of UConn
716   Phillip Kahler of St. John Fisher
734   Pat Summit of Tennessee


Brian Morehouse will head that list as soon as his current game finishes with 600 wins in 690 games.

[Dutchfan]

Well, it's official! Coach Morehouse is the fastest ever to 600 wins!!!!!

690   Brian Morehouse of Hope
691   Mark Campbell of Union (TN)
706   Nancy Fahey of Washington U in St. Louis/Illinois U.
711   Gary Field of Southern Maine
716   Geno Auriemma of UConn
716   Phillip Kahler of St. John Fisher
734   Pat Summit of Tennessee

[Roundball999]

Well, it's official! Coach Morehouse is the fastest ever to 600 wins!!!!!

690   Brian Morehouse of Hope
691   Mark Campbell of Union (TN)
706   Nancy Fahey of Washington U in St. Louis/Illinois U.
711   Gary Field of Southern Maine
716   Geno Auriemma of UConn
716   Phillip Kahler of St. John Fisher
734   Pat Summit of Tennessee

I believe this makes him the fastest to 600 wins in hoops for any division in both MBB and WBB.  The articles about Campbell's milestone in 2019 said Adolf Rupp was fastest in MBB, taking 704 games.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Well, it's official! Coach Morehouse is the fastest ever to 600 wins!!!!!

690   Brian Morehouse of Hope
691   Mark Campbell of Union (TN)
706   Nancy Fahey of Washington U in St. Louis/Illinois U.
711   Gary Field of Southern Maine
716   Geno Auriemma of UConn
716   Phillip Kahler of St. John Fisher
734   Pat Summit of Tennessee

I believe this makes him the fastest to 600 wins in hoops for any division in both MBB and WBB.  The articles about Campbell's milestone in 2019 said Adolf Rupp was fastest in MBB, taking 704 games.

Indeed he is the fastest NCAA hoops coach any division, men or women to reach 600. @D3hoops should update their front page story to reflect this. Looking over his record, it took him 250 games to hit 200 wins. That means his most recent 400 wins happened in 440 games, a .909 win rate!!

[sac]

Congrats to coach Mo.  Tremendous accomplishment.

600-90

[Roundball999]

Worried about Hope's game Wednesday.  At Albion, which is always a tough place to play; Albion is undefeated there this year.  Albion is very good, 15-3 record and their only losses are away at teams with a combined record of 46-8.  Hope took command in the first half at the earlier game at Devos, but lost it all and had to make a buzzer beater to beat Albion.  Together with coming off the emotional high of Saturday's game, and this is a midweek game, this has all the makings of a trap game.