WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[Flying Dutch Fan]

MIAA Coaches poll is announced:

1.   Hope 64 (8)
2.   Trine 57 (1)
3.   Albion 45
4.   Calvin 44
5.   Alma 40
6.   Adrian 27
7.   Saint Mary's 24
8.   Olivet 12
9.   Kalamazoo   11   

Link to the full story:

https://www.miaa.org/sports/wbkb/2021-22/releases/PreseasonPoll

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Excited for the opening of league play tonight, and for Hope specifically a rivalry game to boot.  Hope has been very dominant thus far, so it will be interesting to see how they do against a good Calvin team with the pressure of a rivalry game (or is it only us fans who feel that pressure). 

[HOPEful]

Excited for the opening of league play tonight, and for Hope specifically a rivalry game to boot.  Hope has been very dominant thus far, so it will be interesting to see how they do against a good Calvin team with the pressure of a rivalry game (or is it only us fans who feel that pressure).

Calvin's two losses were both close games to the number 12 and 15 teams in the country. Then again, Hope beat the now number 21 team in the country 83-55...

So much of Calvin's offensive strategy starts and ends with Timmer. Neither DePauw or UWW really had an answer for her. In the game against DePauw, she played 36 minutes and had 23 points and 11 rebounds. Against Whitewater, it was 28 points and 19 rebounds in 33 minutes.  It will be interesting to see if Timmer can find anywhere close to that kind of success against Kate and Olivia. I'm biased of course, but I don't think she will. Lilly Edwards, Baldwin Wallace's excellent WBCA All American Honorable mention forward, had a very difficult time and I'd guess Hope gives Timmer the same treatment. If Timmer is contained, Coors and Clearly will have a much more difficult time but will need to step up in a big way to carry the Knights. And with all due respect to Stephanie and Sydney, I will take Kenedy, Kasey, and Hope's Sydney in a shoot out over just about anyone in D3.

[Roundball999]

Excited for the opening of league play tonight, and for Hope specifically a rivalry game to boot.  Hope has been very dominant thus far, so it will be interesting to see how they do against a good Calvin team with the pressure of a rivalry game (or is it only us fans who feel that pressure). 

It will be good to get that first league game under their belt, though it does worry me a bit that it's a Rivalry game.  Looks to me like Calvin has been very solid so far this year, it would be good (but not for my heart) if Calvin gives the Dutch a stern test at this point in the season.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Excited for the opening of league play tonight, and for Hope specifically a rivalry game to boot.  Hope has been very dominant thus far, so it will be interesting to see how they do against a good Calvin team with the pressure of a rivalry game (or is it only us fans who feel that pressure).

Calvin's two losses were both close games to the number 12 and 15 teams in the country. Then again, Hope beat the now number 21 team in the country 83-55...

So much of Calvin's offensive strategy starts and ends with Timmer. Neither DePauw or UWW really had an answer for her. In the game against DePauw, she played 36 minutes and had 23 points and 11 rebounds. Against Whitewater, it was 28 points and 19 rebounds in 33 minutes.  It will be interesting to see if Timmer can find anywhere close to that kind of success against Kate and Olivia. I'm biased of course, but I don't think she will. Lilly Edwards, Baldwin Wallace's excellent WBCA All American Honorable mention forward, had a very difficult time and I'd guess Hope gives Timmer the same treatment. If Timmer is contained, Coors and Clearly will have a much more difficult time but will need to step up in a big way to carry the Knights. And with all due respect to Stephanie and Sydney, I will take Kenedy, Kasey, and Hope's Sydney in a shoot out over just about anyone in D3.

Totall agree about Timmer.   She can be a very dominating force - 6 games into her senior season she already has 1175 points, 672 reb, and 101 blocks.  She has also had two really good games against Hope in her career (16pts-13reb-8blks and 16pts-11reb-3blks) but both of those came in her freshman year.  Recent seasons she has certainly struggled against Hope (of course when you win 50 in a row, lots of people have struggled) basically averging 1/2 of normal pts, reb, blks, against the Dutch.  I suspect Gabby was looking forward to a Voskuil/Schoonveld free senior season.

Having said all that, it's a rivalry game and Hope better bring their A game, cause I have no doubt Gabby and all her teammates will.

[jspiii]

Does anyone know the status of Freshman Abi Tarrant?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Dominant performace by Hope last night, with what has become a typical very hot first half for the Dutch.  At the half Hope lead 54-24, while shooting 60% from the floor (18-30) and 61.5% from 3 (8-13), which included a 35ft banked in 3 at the buzzer by Morehouse.  While the team as a whole has been very hot shooting this year (leading the nation in FG%), Schoonveld has struggled with finding her shot (0-5 last night), something I sure she will get figured out soon.   

Player of the game has to be Olivia Voskuil: 19 pts - 13 reb - 4 stl - 4 blk - in 18 minutes!

[HOPEful]

Dominant performance by Hope last night, and an amazing stat line for Olivia Voskuil: 19 pts - 13 reb - 4 stl - 4 blk - in 18 minutes!

Gabby wasn't able to get anything going all night. The score was 13-2 before she got her first points, all 13 points coming from Olivia and Kate. Calvin had no answer for how to run the offense when going to Gabby wasn't working. I don't think the defense of Olivia and Kate can be overstated.

If Hope is going to lose a game this year, it won't be to a one dimensional team. It will be to a team that moves the ball around extremely well and finds the open player capable of hitting the shot. And when you get 7 blocks and 18 steals, the lanes and open shots aren't there. This team is just special.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Got to thinking about PPP (points per possession) which is one kind of efficiency ranking.  You can calculate it for both a teams offense as well as defense (using the opponents data).  Typically a PPP rating over 1.0 is consdered to be good, over 1.1 and you are elite.  Team defensive PPP under .90 is good, and below .80 is elite (we can debate those ranges).  Ulitmately is comes down to the difference between your Off PPP and your Def PPP.

Through yesterday's games, here are the numbers in the MIAA:

Team	Offense	Defense	Diff
Hope	1.229	0.602	0.627
Trine	1.139	0.759	0.38
Albion	0.982	0.814	0.168
Calvin	0.95	0.814	0.136
Alma	0.934	0.914	0.02
Adrian	0.837	0.955	-0.118
Kalamazoo	0.79	0.927	-0.137
St Mary's	0.802	0.977	-0.175
Olivet	0.721	1.076	-0.355

 

[NW Hope Fan]

Such a great team. High expectations for this year. Love being able to watch games online...
First half observation tonight. Stifling D, sketchy layups. Those turnover fast breaks are awesome, but set up an offense if you can't make the puppies.    Go Hope!

[HOPEful]

Through 8 games, Hope's starters are averaging just under 18 minutes per game and their next five are averaging 15.5 minutes per game. Seeing as the game is usually soundly in hand 33 minutes in, they are clearly a 10 deep roster.

My point/question is... I believe both Olivia and Kenedy are player of the year worthy players. Olivia is the best defender I have ever seen and Kenedy is just fun to watch fun the offense. But despite both being truly deserving of All American honors, will that 18 minutes per game be a deterrent from them getting votes. Imagine how gaudy their numbers would be at another school where they were playing 30+ minutes per game.

[Jester1390]

On the player who is a great defender I have to explain this to my family as well as our daughter is a above average defender who has always been pass first shoot second and sometimes never lol but who's defense keeps her on the floor for 25 minutes plus most games. A lot of people on here are knowledgeable and realize more to game then scoring.  The argument would be what is more valuable.  A player who scores 18 on 5-17 shooting and her matchup scores 12 or more. Or a player who scores 8 on 3-6 shooting but her matchup is 4pts or less.

It's a interesting question of course great players do both but if you had to pick one which way would you go. You need points to win but where is the trade off point where the scorer is now a liability tot the team   I know plus minus in individual matchups are being followed more. Now zones skew that but if it's man to man you can get a fair ideal even though help defense might lead to a individual that a top defender is defending to scoring

As far as assists players go. As I have always told the kid.  The scorers will always get the cheers and adulation and the the one who made the half course bounce pass will get  good job and you ha e to be ok with that

[Roundball999]

Through 8 games, Hope's starters are averaging just under 18 minutes per game and their next five are averaging 15.5 minutes per game. Seeing as the game is usually soundly in hand 33 minutes in, they are clearly a 10 deep roster.

My point/question is... I believe both Olivia and Kenedy are player of the year worthy players. Olivia is the best defender I have ever seen and Kenedy is just fun to watch fun the offense. But despite both being truly deserving of All American honors, will that 18 minutes per game be a deterrent from them getting votes. Imagine how gaudy their numbers would be at another school where they were playing 30+ minutes per game.

Well, the good news is both WBCA (Kenedy and Olivia) and D3Hoops (Kenedy) had them on their AA teams last year with similarly modest minutes and numbers.  Both scored around 10 ppg in 19 minutes last year, Kenedy had exceptional 49% shooting from 2 and 48% from 3 with 3.6 rpg and strong 3:1 assist/turnover ratio.  Olivia had 6.3 rpg to go along with her game altering defense.  This year is still early but their minutes are actually down a bit while stats are up on a 40 minute basis with Olivia scoring significantly more this year, mainly due to torrid shooting; 56% from the field and 6-6 from 3 pt range.  Kenedy's rebounding up quite a bit and she has an even more stellar 4.4 assist ratio.  So voters have already shown they can look past the minutes-limited numbers for AA selection and I'd suggest their cases are even stronger this year so far.  Maybe that also bodes well for POY consideration; but will 2 candidates from the same school potentially dilute POY votes?

[Jester1390]

I should have also added when your considering the difference between a offensive and defensive player is a he defensive player is usually holding a top scorer down

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Interesting discussion, and I certainly hope those making any selections at the end of the season are properly considering the minutes played, etc.  - but of course we have lots of games to play before those decisions are needed.

That being said, I think it interesting to look at how Voskuil and Schoonveld are performing this year versus prior campaigns (as a point of reference).  I decided to use EFF (a stat used to calculate a players efficiency).  The calculation is EFF = PTS+REB+AST+STL+BLK - Missed FG - TO. This can then be divided by # of games for a per game average (EFF/G) or you can do it based on minutes, scaling it to EFF per 40 minutes (EFF/40). 

Kenedy Schoonveld
Season	EFF	EFF/G	EFF/40	Min/G
2017-2018	381	12.29	21.02	23.4
2018-2019	357	12.31	20.2	24.4
2019-2020	375	12.93	23.81	21.7
2020-2021	191	11.94	24.57	19.4
2021-2022	107	13.38	29.52	18.1
Olivia Voskuil
Season	EFF	EFF/G	EFF/40	Min/G
2017-2018	294	9.48	26.31	14.4
2018-2019	312	10.76	22.13	19.4
2019-2020	338	11.66	25.18	18.5
2020-2021	246	15.38	32.16	19.1
2021-2022	167	20.88	47.38	17.6

Looking at EFF/G, Schoonveld has been so consistent every season, while Voskuil has been on a steady increase.  As others have said, fabulous start to the season for both!