WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[scottiedawg]

Some really really random thoughts on the Trine game:

* Awesome to watch. Both teams showed tons of skill.

* It was funny to hear the Trine announcers crowing over Kenedy getting her ankles broken, when she just got stepped on. Basketball officials always seem to call fouls when inadvertent contact results in one player getting tripped (I don't like it--no idea what the rules say should happen). In this case calling an offensive foul would be consistent, even though the contact was completely inadvertent.

* Perhaps it's part of the game now but a lot of primary ball handlers use their off arm as an arm-bar so much. McKinney and Wagner did it allll game long.

* I'm interested to see Muller adapt. Teams know they'd rather have her take a 3 than any other of Hope's starters--they give her a cushion. And more often than not, she dribbles INTO the cushion, often ending up in a tough spot. Gotta adapt.

* In big games the best players show up. Thinking back to tourney games where Bria Ebels or Stephen Cramer were clearly the best player on the floor. Schoonveld was that vs. Trine.

* The officials calling the 2nd half much much more proactively really sucked. Removed a lot of flow from the game and a good handful of the fouls were pretty minimal.

* Hope went to great pains to eliminate Tara. They lapsed for a second in the 2nd half and she drained a 3.

* Trine losing in this fashion to Hope is more impressive than most wins. I hope pollsters don't dock them just for a loss.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

A few points yet to be mentioned...

1. I've discussed in the past the stark difference I've observed between the average d3 male recruit vs. the average d3 female recruit. In my experience, the average high school senior female athlete takes a much more wholistic approach when considering their college experience. The ego of going D1 or D2 vs. D3 doesn't seem to matter as much as it does to their male counterparts. And the campus, student life, curriculum, housing, etc. all seems to matter as much as the athletic program. It feels at times like male athletes don't even consider which school is a better fit or will set them up better for the rest of their life post college, they just want to ball at the highest level. As Roundball attested, Coach Mo sells recruits on not just a perennial powerhouse tradition, but a tight knit culture of comradery on and off the court supported by one of the most electric fan bases for women's basketball in all the country, at any level. Not to downplay the value of a athletic scholarship, but even at the D3 level, male athletes seem much more willing to go to the program that makes them the best basketball offer... a more athlete first, student second mentality. There are many high caliber male recruits that don't even consider Hope because they're fixated on the athletic scholarships being offered to them by NAIA or D2 schools like Cornerstone or GVSU. Coach Mo doesn't seem to struggle with that problem even close to the same extent.

2. The old cliché is "you can't teach height" and Dutch people are on average the tallest people in the world. Voskuil and Schoonveld are very Dutch names and both attended Holland Christian high school. I'm sure that Coach Mo isn't complaining about the much larger than average pool of 6'+ players to recruit in West MI vs. other communities.

3. As for this dominant current team, getting your two All Americans back from last year for a 5th year doesn't hurt either. And they probably weren't too difficult to recruit 6 years ago seeing as one of them is the daughter of Hope's athletic director

I've noticed, when it comes to men's teams, no matter the level or winning percentage, there's always at least one player who thinks they can go pro with the right break. It's in the back of the mind for most top level recruits. I do think that affects recruiting quite a bit.

[HOPEful]

I've noticed, when it comes to men's teams, no matter the level or winning percentage, there's always at least one player who thinks they can go pro with the right break. It's in the back of the mind for most top level recruits. I do think that affects recruiting quite a bit.

Agreed. It's the AAU effect. These young men have been praised and defined as "great basketball players" since they were 12. And even though many of them are subpar students and even at times, subpar humans, they're still praised for their athletic ability. And that constant praise from their parents and peers develops egos much larger than any 17 year old not named LeBron should have. That constant one dimensional praise doesn't seem to happen as prevalently towards female athletes. And I mean that to be a very good thing.

[HOPEful]

Olivia and Kenedy are averaging roughly 18 minutes per game this season. I have a hard time imagining many male All-Americans that would be genuinely happy with their role playing that few minutes.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Olivia and Kenedy are averaging roughly 18 minutes per game this season. I have a hard time imagining many male All-Americans that would be genuinely happy with their role playing that few minutes.

Nate Shafer and Zac O'Dell each played 24 mpg for Swarthmore in the 2019-20 season.  That's probably as close as you'll see.  It's quite unusual for any team to be able to keep their best players on the bench for more than 50% of their minutes, though.

[scottiedawg]

You can see how few minutes Hope's players play, comparatively.

I grabbed the top few players from the top ranked teams, and anyone who made the D3Hoops preseason teams.


   
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

NAME	Team	Yr	STAT	Min/G	Pts/G
Maddie Haberthy	Mt. St. Joseph	Senior	0.67	38.63	20.75
Damaris Rodriguez	New Jersey City	Sophomore	0.84	37.00	17.67
Maggie Meehan	Williams	Senior	0.51	36.20	14.40
Hanna Geistfeld	Bethany Lutheran	Senior	0.99	36.00	23.91
AnLing Vera	Amherst	Freshman	0.55	34.86	10.00
Molly Ryan	Tufts	Senior	0.73	34.63	17.75
Jessie Ruden	UW-Eau Claire	Junior	0.68	34.40	16.80
Leah Springer	Messiah	Senior	0.91	33.11	17.22
Annie Tate	Wheaton	Junior	0.85	32.60	18.80
Reeya Patel	Amherst	Sophomore	0.58	32.29	12.00
Bridget Monaghan	Scranton	Junior	0.79	32.25	18.88
Gabrielle Zaffiro	Amherst	Senior	0.59	31.57	11.43
Olivia Nagy	John Carroll	Senior	1.06	31.38	16.25
Tyra Boettcher	UW-Eau Claire	Senior	0.71	30.90	14.70
Courtney Crouch	UW-Eau Claire	Junior	0.53	30.60	11.00
Kiera Downey	Rhodes	Junior	0.71	30.44	14.44
Nicole Heffington	John Carroll	Senior	0.94	30.13	18.38
Kaylie McCracken	Whitman	Senior	0.98	29.70	17.20
Jade Ganski	UW-Eau Claire	Sophomore	0.66	29.50	7.10
Maggie Trautsch	UW-Whitewater	Sophomore	0.53	29.33	10.22
Elyce Knudsen	Milikin	Sophomore	0.97	28.83	18.92
Jadyn Abrams	Nazareth	Senior	0.77	28.38	15.13
Jenna Taylor	Simpson	Senior	0.90	28.25	14.63
Leah Porath	UW-Oshkosh	Senior	0.72	28.11	14.22
Averi Jordan	DeSales	Senior	0.87	28.00	16.78
Bailey Reardon	UW-Eau Claire	Junior	0.67	27.20	10.60
Kaylee Otlowski	Salisbury	Senior	0.98	27.10	14.40
Aleah Grundahl	UW-Whitewater	Junior	0.87	27.00	16.89
Kaelan Shamseldin	Whitman	Senior	0.61	24.80	10.50
Tara Bieniewicz	Trine	Senior	0.67	23.80	10.70
Johanna Taylor	UW-Whitewater	Senior	0.69	23.33	7.44
Mallory Stephens	E Tx Bap	Senior	0.56	22.36	8.55
Lilly Edwards	Baldwin Wallace	Senior	1.30	22.25	18.50
Koren Baker	Whitman	Sophomore	0.88	21.70	12.60
Sam Underhill	Trine	Junior	0.66	19.90	7.30
Kayla Wildman	Trine	Senior	0.54	19.50	7.90
Julie Galauner	Aurora	Senior	0.82	19.00	10.83
Rebekah Schumacher	UW-Whitewater	Senior	0.74	18.33	8.44
Kenedy Schoonveld	Hope	Senior	0.98	18.20	10.30
Sydney Muller	Hope	Senior	0.85	17.90	8.10
Olivia Voskuil	Hope	Senior	1.32	17.70	11.80
Sondra Fan	CNU	Senior	1.35	17.55	16.64
Kelsy Taylor	Trine	Senior	0.85	17.50	9.60
Kasey DeSmit	Hope	Senior	0.60	17.50	6.50
Kate Majerus	Hope	Senior	0.67	17.40	8.10
Anaya Simmons	CNU	Junior	1.12	17.27	12.45
Rachel Stewart	Trine	Senior	1.03	17.00	9.30
Ella McKinney	Hope	Junior	0.74	15.80	6.90
Hannah Smith	Hope	Senior	0.79	15.60	6.30
Claire Baguley	Hope	Junior	0.74	15.60	8.30
Meg Morehouse	Hope	Junior	0.51	15.60	4.10
Natalie Terwilinger	CNU	Senior	1.15	15.56	10.11
Savannah Feenstra	Hope	Junior	1.14	15.22	10.33
Savannah LeGate	Oglethorpe	Senior	1.38	15.00	13.50
Kaylen Underwood	John Carroll	Junior	0.81	13.88	9.63
Olivia Bellows	Hope	Freshman	0.82	8.22	4.67
Abi Tarrant	Hope	Freshman	0.42	8.00	1.33
Hannah Kurncz	Hope	Freshman	0.35	7.89	1.33
Jada Garner	Hope	Freshman	0.61	7.78	3.33
Courtney Lee	Hope	Freshman	0.64	6.78	2.78
Raven Jemison	Hope	Sophomore	0.78	6.25	2.38

[Jester1390]

Hope i think your 100 percent on the scholarship and boys thinking they are going to be the next pro. Also on the experience my kid came from a really bad high school team that  had 2 coaches in her time. When she visited Rose it was the last year of the really good rose team and they have a top flight facility. It was exciting to her to see passion again.


I can only speak for my kids experience. She had D-2 and Naia full scholarships offers but in all cases they only offered nursing as something she would be interested in.   She was either going to Simpson in California or if she stayed home go to Gustavus. She had a chemistry teacher talk to her  about her strength in stem and at the last second the very last school she visited was Rose.  Ok enough of setup to get to point.     When Coach Prevo met with her he told her how much he admired how all her hard work in class and the hard work her family has done she had earned the right to choose she wasn't stuck.  That many players end up at a school or a major because of scholarship need. They end up unhappy and many don't finish.   I feel for those kids. There are parents right now on the rose parents group on facebook talking about how much their child wants to attend rose but they need to wait for financials to come in.  I know how my daughter has grown at rose and I know the career she is set up to have and  I am grateful we were in position to make the choice comfortably but even if i wasnt, any debt would be worth the cost of knowing  my kid is taken care of.

Lastly and this sealed the deal one of the heads dont remember which one said.  Kahlan its great you play basketball and we look forward to watching you but  it wouldn't matter if you were Maya Moore if we didnt think you would thrive here you wouldn't have been accepted.  Except for Coach Kelly at Gustavus she felt Rose was the only place not treating her like a piece of meat but cared about her off the court.

on the 6 year my dream is to get another year out of the kid especially being robbed last year but its not going to happen. I asked her if her and her class would come back and she said dad we are all going to have jobs when we graduate so hopefully maybe a masters somewhere.

[HOPEful]

On the 6 year my dream is to get another year out of the kid especially being robbed last year but its not going to happen. I asked her if her and her class would come back and she said dad we are all going to have jobs when we graduate so hopefully maybe a masters somewhere.

Every coaches worst nightmare... a kid with more eligibility that leaves because they graduated and have a job lined up!

(kidding in case anyone actually thinks I'm serious)

[Jester1390]

lol i asked coach if he was going to work any of them and he said how can he the average starting salary is 75k

[Roundball999]

Last big top 25 tussle before the Holidays this afternoon with B-W visiting Trine.  Some significant disparities in the rankings as WBCA/D3Hoops/Massey has B-W at 24/16/5 and Trine at 11/7/4.  Massey has Trine by 8 with 75% win probability.  Having seen Hope play both I'd be tempted to favor Trine by a bit more especially at home.  Much depends on how Trine shoots especially from 3, since you know their defense is going to be tough no matter what.  B-W is solid too so I wouldn't expect this one to light up the scoreboard.  Good luck to two very nice teams but I have to save my best wishes for MIAA colleague Trine!

[TUAngola]

Last big top 25 tussle before the Holidays this afternoon with B-W visiting Trine.  Some significant disparities in the rankings as WBCA/D3Hoops/Massey has B-W at 24/16/5 and Trine at 11/7/4.  Massey has Trine by 8 with 75% win probability.  Having seen Hope play both I'd be tempted to favor Trine by a bit more especially at home.  Much depends on how Trine shoots especially from 3, since you know their defense is going to be tough no matter what.  B-W is solid too so I wouldn't expect this one to light up the scoreboard.  Good luck to two very nice teams but I have to save my best wishes for MIAA colleague Trine!

Final:  Trine 64  Baldwin Wallace 45

Probably the best 1st half by the Thunder this season in the games I've seen them play in person, although the 1st half against Hope was very good too.  Our defense was absolutely suffocating on a very talented BW team.  And we had good ball movement on offense, especially in the second quarter and got some wide open looks, shooting 77% in the quarter.  We took BW out of their game and they looked very flustered in the 1st half.  We led 36-15 at the break.  Second half BW played much better and shot the ball better, outscoring the Thunder by 2 in the half.  I was really wary of this game and how the Thunder would play after their tussle with Hope on Saturday.  But they came out pretty focused and got good contributions from everyone that played.  On a down note we may have lost another player to injury as Makayla Ardis was in street clothes for the game.  I asked a parent of another Thunder player and he said that Makayla injured her knee in practice on Tuesday.  The extent of the injury is unknow yet.  So now we're down both our starting and backup point guards.  Freshman Sidney Wagner got the start tonight and backup Alyssa Argyle moved from her normal shooting guard spot to point guard for this game spelling Wagner.  The injuries are hurting our rotation as we basically used 9 players tonight.  We don't lose much with Wagner starting though.  She gained a lot of confidence playing extended minutes against Hope and it carried over to tonight.  Just got to figure out a new rotation.  We have a week of practice to work on it before heading to Nashville on the 29th and 30th for a tournament.  Tonight we couldn't go as deep into the bench as we typically do because BW played very tough the second half and we never was able to extend the lead.

[HOPEful]

Some significant disparities in the rankings as WBCA/D3Hoops/Massey has B-W at 24/16/5 and Trine at 11/7/4.  Massey has Trine by 8 with 75% win probability. 

I feel like after Hope, there are like 15 teams that you could make a strong argument for voting anywhere between #2 and #16. The way Trine plays defense, they can play with anyone, as they showed against Hope.

The way they beat BW was a mirror of how Hope did it. Focus on shutting down Lilly Edwards and Megan Hensel and dare someone else to step up.

[Roundball999]

The Hope College men's and women's basketball games scheduled for Wednesday-Thursday, Jan. 5-6, have been postponed due to COVID-19 protocols.

Makeup dates are to be determined for the Flying Dutchmen's MIAA opener vs. Trine University on Wednesday at DeVos Fieldhouse, and the Flying Dutch's MIAA game at Alma College on Wednesday and their non-league game against Illinois College at DeVos Fieldhouse on Thursday.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

St Marys @ Kalamazoo postponed for tonight due to the weather

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Quite the game at Kresge last night.  I checked on the stats at halftime to see Ablion up 44-26.  Checked again as the 3rd quarter ended to see the Brits still up big, 56-41.  Then the Knights went on a 15-4 run in the 4th wiht Sydney Cleary getting hot from 3.  Calvin got to within 1 point and had the ball but could not get the lead.  A late foul put the Brits at the line, goin 1-2.  Calvin ball with 6 seconds left down 2, but they could not get off a decent shot.  Final score 67-65.