WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[Roundball999]

In a gross oversimplification, maybe the story of the game was Hope shooting 27% including 15% from 3 pt range.  Complete credit to Trine's defense for that.  The Dutch also left 13 points at the foul line.

[HOPEful]

Agree with most of the analysis already posted of last night's game. A few other observations/opinions...

1. Why is Kasey so hesitant to launch the open three?! She was 0-3 last night, and I feel like all three she hesitated and gave the defender time to get a hand in her face.

2. Hope needs to quit with the cross court passes through traffic. Way too many turnovers. Credit Trine for making the plays, but Hope need to take care of the ball better. Their offense looked very forced all night long.

3. Who am I to question Coach Mo? But... why did the defensive strategy around Tara change between the game at Trine vs the game at Hope? Hope refused to allow her to score in the first game and demanded Rachel and Kayla get the job done. Last night, they seemed much more willing to allow Tara to be involved in Trine's offense. She gladly accepted the offer to the tune of 4 for 9 from 3 and 18 points total.

4. 15% from 3 and 65% from the stripe is a recipe for getting beat. But even some of the easy shot were being missed. And most of those misses were WAY off, not just balls that rimmed out.

[TUAngola]

From my observations last night there were two key factors to Trine defeating Hope.

1. Quality of shots. Trine had much better shoot selection than Hope did. This was of course due in large part to Trine's defense. It really showed in the shooting percentages for each team.

2. Coaching. Brian Morehouse is a great coach and I'm a huge fan of his. That being said, he waited WAY too long to abandon his platooning scheme and go with a mixed lineup. As soon as he did, Hope closed the gap and made a game of it. If he had made that adjustment at halftime rather than the fourth quarter, Hope may have won the game.

I agree!  Yes, the 1st unit and 2nd unit platoon works for most games for both Trine and Hope.  But this was absolutely the game to "mix it up".  In a game as big as this Schoonveld and Voskuil needed to play closer to 30 minutes, not 20.  Because once the NCAA tournament starts there are going to be more games like this one where you have to go with your best players more than the platoon system.  Meg Moorehouse, Feenstra, Smith, they all were way more effective than Majerus and DeSmit last night.  The splitting of the 1st and 2nd units worked well for Trine last night, although some of it was out of necessity with the Sloneker twins out of the lineup and Underhill in foul trouble all night.  Another girl for Trine who did yeoman's work last night was Kelsey Taylor.  Her stats don't jump off the page, but she logged 33 minutes, by far the most of the season for her.  She was basically our only 'big' available with Underhill in foul trouble and Brauher not ready for this type of game as a freshman.   

[TUAngola]

...also wanted to comment on the attendance last night...2380 in person, tremendous turnout!  When I was watching the video feed there were also well over 1000 viewers too.  Most definitely the most watched D3 game this year, and maybe in a long, long time.

[pointlem]

Why is Kasey so hesitant to launch the open three?!

Actually, several ace Hope shooters seemed to hesitate, then pass up, what, in hindsight, were the best available shots of a possession. By contrast, the Trine guards, when given a 3-point look, more unhesitatingly took what the game gave them. (Especially after a 3-point miss, many players seem to lose confidence when the game shortly after gives them another similar opportunity.)

That said, given that Hope could shoot that badly and its highly-ranked opponent shoot that well . . . and Hope still be one missed basket away from a tie in the final minute . . . I like Hope's chances going forward.

Sac, so how does the tie-breaker work: the most recent game trumps an earlier game?

[sac]

Sac, so how does the tie-breaker work: the most recent game trumps an earlier game?

The last tie-breaker should be record in second round-robin.  FYI, Trine hosts both Albion/Calvin really the only two teams capable of threatening them I think.

I'll try and find the MIAA tie-breakers and post it later if I can. 

[HOPEful]

Why is Kasey so hesitant to launch the open three?!

Actually, several ace Hope shooters seemed to hesitate, then pass up, what, in hindsight, were the best available shots of a possession...

I agree. I focused on Kasey because, in my opinion, Hope has two players that are so deadly from three, I don't want them ever passing up an open look... Kate and Kasey. And while Kennedy, Savannah, and Olivia are all capable three point shooters, their bread and butter isn't necessarily behind the arc.

[deiscanton]

Sac, so how does the tie-breaker work: the most recent game trumps an earlier game?

The last tie-breaker should be record in second round-robin.  FYI, Trine hosts both Albion/Calvin really the only two teams capable of threatening them I think.

I'll try and find the MIAA tie-breakers and post it later if I can.

If Hope and Trine finish 15-1 in MIAA play, wouldn't the fairest way to determine the #1 seed and home field advantage for the MIAA tournament be by a coin toss conducted by the Commissioner of the MIAA?  Hope and Trine would be declared as MIAA Women's Basketball Co-Champions since the regular season record determines the MIAA league title. 

In the UAA in the 2000-01 women's basketball season, (excluding the results of their matches with Johns Hopkins), Wash U and NYU finished 13-1 in the UAA games where they did not play JHU, and 14-1 in UAA play when the contests vs JHU were taken into account.  (In addition, Wash U and NYU were ranked #1 and #2 in the D3Hoops.com Top 25 poll at the time as well.)  NYU and Wash U were declared UAA Co-Champions, and NYU won the UAA AQ to the 2001 NCAA DIII Women's Basketball tournament by virtue of a coin flip conducted by "Mr. UAA" Dick Rasmussen (in his role as Executive Secretary of the Association).  Wash U got the first Pool C bid and went on to win their 4th national title in a row.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Sac, so how does the tie-breaker work: the most recent game trumps an earlier game?

The last tie-breaker should be record in second round-robin.  FYI, Trine hosts both Albion/Calvin really the only two teams capable of threatening them I think.

I'll try and find the MIAA tie-breakers and post it later if I can.

If Hope and Trine finish 15-1 in MIAA play, wouldn't the fairest way to determine the #1 seed and home field advantage for the MIAA tournament be by a coin toss conducted by the Commissioner of the MIAA?  Hope and Trine would be declared as MIAA Women's Basketball Co-Champions since the regular season record determines the MIAA league title. 

In the UAA in the 2000-01 women's basketball season, (excluding the results of their matches with Johns Hopkins), Wash U and NYU finished 13-1 in the UAA games where they did not play JHU, and 14-1 in UAA play when the contests vs JHU were taken into account.  (In addition, Wash U and NYU were ranked #1 and #2 in the D3Hoops.com Top 25 poll at the time as well.)  NYU and Wash U were declared UAA Co-Champions, and NYU won the UAA AQ to the 2001 NCAA DIII Women's Basketball tournament by virtue of a coin flip conducted by "Mr. UAA" Dick Rasmussen (in his role as Executive Secretary of the Association).  Wash U got the first Pool C bid and went on to win their 4th national title in a row.

Been there, done that (multiple times) in the MIAA, and nobody liked it.  With this method, the decision is squarely in the hands of the teams, who all know the rules (or at least I assume the coaches do).

[deiscanton]

Sac, so how does the tie-breaker work: the most recent game trumps an earlier game?

The last tie-breaker should be record in second round-robin.  FYI, Trine hosts both Albion/Calvin really the only two teams capable of threatening them I think.

I'll try and find the MIAA tie-breakers and post it later if I can.

If Hope and Trine finish 15-1 in MIAA play, wouldn't the fairest way to determine the #1 seed and home field advantage for the MIAA tournament be by a coin toss conducted by the Commissioner of the MIAA?  Hope and Trine would be declared as MIAA Women's Basketball Co-Champions since the regular season record determines the MIAA league title. 

In the UAA in the 2000-01 women's basketball season, (excluding the results of their matches with Johns Hopkins), Wash U and NYU finished 13-1 in the UAA games where they did not play JHU, and 14-1 in UAA play when the contests vs JHU were taken into account.  (In addition, Wash U and NYU were ranked #1 and #2 in the D3Hoops.com Top 25 poll at the time as well.)  NYU and Wash U were declared UAA Co-Champions, and NYU won the UAA AQ to the 2001 NCAA DIII Women's Basketball tournament by virtue of a coin flip conducted by "Mr. UAA" Dick Rasmussen (in his role as Executive Secretary of the Association).  Wash U got the first Pool C bid and went on to win their 4th national title in a row.

Been there, done that (multiple times) in the MIAA, and nobody liked it.  With this method, the decision is squarely in the hands of the teams, who all know the rules (or at least I assume the coaches do).

No one would ask Hope and Trine to settle the #1 seed for a conference tournament by means of a 1 game playoff on a neutral court.  Maybe a 1 game playoff on a neutral court a la the Old Ivy League rules would suffice if the winner of the playoff got the MIAA AQ.

[sac]

Coin toss is still the very last tie-breaker.  The record in 2nd half of round-robin was added several years ago to prevent the coin toss from ever happening again, its essentially nearly impossible to get there now.


However, I do not know how a covid cancelled game might change that if it happens.  Stay tuned.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

deiscanton- no one ever suggested a one game playoff. The rules are clear - look at records the 2nd time through the double round robin. So Hope came into this game knowing a loss would very likely mean both a shared championship and Trine would be hosting.  Even for a team that won 61 in a row, that should be motivating (if motivation is needed).

[deiscanton]

deiscanton- no one ever suggested a one game playoff. The rules are clear - look at records the 2nd time through the double round robin. So Hope came into this game knowing a loss would very likely mean both a shared championship and Trine would be hosting.  Even for a team that won 61 in a row, that should be motivating (if motivation is needed).

Has the MIAA published the tiebreaker rules on its website?  I would like a link to them so that I can confirm that the results of the second time through settle the tiebreaker question in your conference.  A lot of other conferences, including the UAA, do not have results of the second time through double round robin settle conference ties.  I am more familiar with (1) head to head, (2) results vs descending teams from top to bottom in the conference standings, and (3) best record in road league games.  Your league is unique in that it weighs the results of games in the second half of the double round robin more heavily than in the first half.

[HOPEful]

Has the MIAA published the tiebreaker rules on its website?  I would like a link to them so that I can confirm that the results of the second time through settle the tiebreaker question in your conference.  A lot of other conferences, including the UAA, do not have results of the second time through double round robin settle conference ties.  I am more familiar with (1) head to head, (2) results vs descending teams from top to bottom in the conference standings, and (3) best record in road league games.  Your league is unique in that it weighs the results of games in the second half of the double round robin more heavily than in the first half.

Those are the order in the MIAA as well...
1. head to head... both teams are 1-1.
2. results vs. descending teams... both teams are undefeated
3. road league games... both teams are undefeated.

So we still have a tie... now what? I've seen overall record used in the past, but I don't love the idea of punishing teams for scheduling hard non-conference opponents. I don't think Trine's loss at Eau-Claire should be the determining factor.

So since no one liked the coin flip, second half of the round robin it is. Seeing as the AWAY team won both contests this year, I'm not certain playing the MIAA Championship game at Trine is a bad thing

[deiscanton]

deiscanton- no one ever suggested a one game playoff. The rules are clear - look at records the 2nd time through the double round robin. So Hope came into this game knowing a loss would very likely mean both a shared championship and Trine would be hosting.  Even for a team that won 61 in a row, that should be motivating (if motivation is needed).

Has the MIAA published the tiebreaker rules on its website?  I would like a link to them so that I can confirm that the results of the second time through settle the tiebreaker question in your conference.  A lot of other conferences, including the UAA, do not have results of the second time through double round robin settle conference ties.  I am more familiar with (1) head to head, (2) results vs descending teams from top to bottom in the conference standings, and (3) best record in road league games.  Your league is unique in that it weighs the results of games in the second half of the double round robin more heavily than in the first half.

Those the order in the MIAA as well...
1. head to head... both teams are 1-1.
2. results vs. descending teams... both teams are undefeated
3. road league games... both teams are undefeated.

So then what?

In the UAA, tiebreaker #4 is the coin flip.  In the MIAA, tiebreaker #4 apparently is best record/winning pct in the second half of the double round robin, and then tiebreaker #5 is the coin flip.  At least your tiebreaker in this specific case is for who gets the #1 seed in a conference tournament rather than who gets the AQ.

At least in the UAA, they make the tiebreakers transparent in the published UAA Basketball Code of Conduct on their website.  I don't mind if the MIAA has an additional tiebreaker before the coin flip-- I just don't see it published by the conference on their website, so I have to take your word for it.

The MIAA must have had a lot of trouble with coin flips in the past to add an additional tiebreaker.  The coin flip has only been used once to settle a tie for the AQ in UAA Women's Basketball since the UAA was formed in 1987, and it has never been used in UAA Men's Basketball to determine an AQ.  That is why this tiebreaker of results in the second half of the double round robin intrigues me.