WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[scottiedawg]

For some reason Hope and Trine flip-flopped in the recent D3Hoops.com poll. Hope gained 3 votes, Trine lost 3. I feel like Trine had the more impressive week. But it's small potatoes-both are great teams.

I watched the Christopher Newport vs. UC Santa Cruz (on a neutral court) game. CNU is strong but doesn't look like the #1 team to me.

[HOPEful]

For some reason Hope and Trine flip-flopped in the recent D3Hoops.com poll. Hope gained 3 votes, Trine lost 3. I feel like Trine had the more impressive week. But it's small potatoes-both are great teams.

I watched the Christopher Newport vs. UC Santa Cruz (on a neutral court) game. CNU is strong but doesn't look like the #1 team to me.

Agreed. I find Simpson and Whitewater "scarier" to me than CNU. As a Hope fan, no one scares me more than Trine.

[Roundball999]

For some reason Hope and Trine flip-flopped in the recent D3Hoops.com poll. Hope gained 3 votes, Trine lost 3. I feel like Trine had the more impressive week. But it's small potatoes-both are great teams.

I watched the Christopher Newport vs. UC Santa Cruz (on a neutral court) game. CNU is strong but doesn't look like the #1 team to me.

Agreed. I find Simpson and Whitewater "scarier" to me than CNU. As a Hope fan, no one scares me more than Trine.

I agree with this.  Over the years Hope has typically handled full court pressure very well, turning the defensive pressure into quick scoring opportunities.  I think maybe because everyone they have on the floor can typically handle the ball and pass well, even the bigs.  So it's usually the fundamentally strong opponents with tenacious half court defense and balanced scoring - like Trine - that worry me most.

[TUAngola]

Regional Rankings are out.  How in the world is Hope 3rd in Region 7?? 

Trine with wins over numbers 3, 5, 9 & 10.  The other loss they have, besides to Hope, is to UW-Eau Claire who is #3 in Region 9.

Region 7           
1   Trine   20-2   20-2
2   DePauw   20-2   20-2
3   Hope   19-1   21-1
4   John Carroll   18-3   18-3
5   Baldwin Wallace   17-3   17-3
6   Marietta   19-4   19-4
7   Oberlin   17-3   17-3
8   Otterbein   16-6   16-6
9   Calvin   16-7   16-7
10   Ohio Northern   14-7   14-7

[Roundball999]

Regional Rankings are out.  How in the world is Hope 3rd in Region 7?? 

Trine with wins over numbers 3, 5, 9 & 10.  The other loss they have, besides to Hope, is to UW-Eau Claire who is #3 in Region 9.

Region 7           
1   Trine   20-2   20-2
2   DePauw   20-2   20-2
3   Hope   19-1   21-1
4   John Carroll   18-3   18-3
5   Baldwin Wallace   17-3   17-3
6   Marietta   19-4   19-4
7   Oberlin   17-3   17-3
8   Otterbein   16-6   16-6
9   Calvin   16-7   16-7
10   Ohio Northern   14-7   14-7

Haha, I know the math but I still can't comprehend how these turn out sometimes.  Trine ranked #1 I can see due to higher SoS.  But Hope has both a  stronger SoS and better winning % vs. in division ranked opponents (80% vs 75%) than DePauw, so that one is a real head scratcher for me.  It appears DePauw's 6-2 75% record vs division ranked opponents carries much more weigh than Hope's 4-1 80% record.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Regional Rankings are out.  How in the world is Hope 3rd in Region 7?? 

Trine with wins over numbers 3, 5, 9 & 10.  The other loss they have, besides to Hope, is to UW-Eau Claire who is #3 in Region 9.

Region 7           
1   Trine   20-2   20-2
2   DePauw   20-2   20-2
3   Hope   19-1   21-1
4   John Carroll   18-3   18-3
5   Baldwin Wallace   17-3   17-3
6   Marietta   19-4   19-4
7   Oberlin   17-3   17-3
8   Otterbein   16-6   16-6
9   Calvin   16-7   16-7
10   Ohio Northern   14-7   14-7

Haha, I know the math but I still can't comprehend how these turn out sometimes.  Trine ranked #1 I can see due to higher SoS.  But Hope has both a  stronger SoS and better winning % vs. in division ranked opponents (80% vs 75%) than DePauw, so that one is a real head scratcher for me.  It appears DePauw's 6-2 75% record vs division ranked opponents carries much more weigh than Hope's 4-1 80% record.

It's not the regionally ranked percentage, it's results vs regionally ranked opponents.  Typically they're not to worried about the losses.  Personally, I'm not sure DePauw's 6 are more impressive than Hope's 4, but six is bigger than four, and that's likely how they broke the tie.

[Roundball999]

Come to think of it, "results vs regionally ranked opponents" is quite ambiguous, isn't it?  I suppose intentionally.  6 being bigger than 4 without much worry about losses... also sounds pretty arbitrary.  It'll sort itself out, the only shame would be if it influences hosting.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Pretty sure that Hope vs Trine in the MIAA championship (assuming we get there) will essentially be for the right to host.

[TUAngola]

Pretty sure that Hope vs Trine in the MIAA championship (assuming we get there) will essentially be for the right to host.

It would be a tremendous shame if both Hope and Trine don't get to host in the tournament.  If the NCAA committee can find a way for 3 NESCAC teams (Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts) to host a few years ago then they should be able to find a way to let 2 MIAA teams host.  The NCAA owes us after the travesty of sending Trine to the Thomas More bracket back in 2019 when Trine earned the right to be a host school that year.

[HOPEful]

Regional Rankings are out.  How in the world is Hope 3rd in Region 7?? 

Trine with wins over numbers 3, 5, 9 & 10.  The other loss they have, besides to Hope, is to UW-Eau Claire who is #3 in Region 9.

Region 7           
1   Trine   20-2   20-2
2   DePauw   20-2   20-2
3   Hope   19-1   21-1
4   John Carroll   18-3   18-3
5   Baldwin Wallace   17-3   17-3
6   Marietta   19-4   19-4
7   Oberlin   17-3   17-3
8   Otterbein   16-6   16-6
9   Calvin   16-7   16-7
10   Ohio Northern   14-7   14-7

Haha, I know the math but I still can't comprehend how these turn out sometimes.  Trine ranked #1 I can see due to higher SoS.  But Hope has both a  stronger SoS and better winning % vs. in division ranked opponents (80% vs 75%) than DePauw, so that one is a real head scratcher for me.  It appears DePauw's 6-2 75% record vs division ranked opponents carries much more weigh than Hope's 4-1 80% record.

It's not the regionally ranked percentage, it's results vs regionally ranked opponents.  Typically they're not to worried about the losses.  Personally, I'm not sure DePauw's 6 are more impressive than Hope's 4, but six is bigger than four, and that's likely how they broke the tie.

Don't the individual games typically matter too? 4 vs. 6 alone isn't a great measure without measuring the quality of those wins. 2 of the 4 are against the #1 team and the #5 teams in the region, both arguably better wins than ANY of DePauw's six. And Hope's margin of victory in those games is jaw dropping while DePauw barely got by Oberlin, Washington, Piedmont, and Calvin.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

The women's committee tends to stick closer to the straight numbers than the men. As I said, I'd agree with you, but evidently the committee didn't.

[Roundball999]

Ryan, I appreciate your perspective and the fact that you are willing to share an individual opinion vs parroting the party line.  Thanks.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Pretty sure that Hope vs Trine in the MIAA championship (assuming we get there) will essentially be for the right to host.

It would be a tremendous shame if both Hope and Trine don't get to host in the tournament.  If the NCAA committee can find a way for 3 NESCAC teams (Amherst, Bowdoin, Tufts) to host a few years ago then they should be able to find a way to let 2 MIAA teams host.  The NCAA owes us after the travesty of sending Trine to the Thomas More bracket back in 2019 when Trine earned the right to be a host school that year.

Trine getting sent to the Thomas More bracket was exactly what came to mind for me as well.  I would prefer to see both schools host, in oposite portions of the bracket, but then I doubt we see that.  Might get some insigth into those possibilities later today when the committee/NCAA release their first Top 16 ranking.  This will be the top 16 nationally ranked.  One could assume that you have to be in that list to be a likely host

[TUAngola]

The NCAA committee released their top 16 rankings today:  Trine was #9 and Hope #12.   

So it does appear that if Trine and Hope play once again in the MIAA conference championship game, that the winner will be a host in the NCAA tournament and the other team might be S.O.L.

[pointlem]

The NCAA committee released their top 16 rankings today:  Trine was #9 and Hope #12.   

So it does appear that if Trine and Hope play once again in the MIAA conference championship game, that the winner will be a host in the NCAA tournament and the other team might be S.O.L.

Interesting to see how the NCAA ranking differs so sharply from essential agreement among the polls and computer power rating: https://masseyratings.com/cbw2022/ncaa-d3/ratings

I'm guessing that Hope and Trine have a weaker SOS that isn't adjusted by their margins of victory (even with starters not playing minutes to run up scores) . . . because the NCAA wisely wouldn't want to incentivize margin of victories?