WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Without meaning any disrespect, I genuinely wonder who benefits from a Great Lakes Christian coming to Hope tonight? Great Lakes Christian lost to Albion two days ago 90-38. Hope gains nothing by beating an NCCAA team by the score of their choosing. GLCC gains nothing by getting shellacked for the second time in one week by a team completely out of their league.  Honestly, wouldn't a joint practice/scrimmage be more beneficial to both teams?

Very simple answer the head coach is a Hope grad.   https://glccathletics.com/sports/wbkb/coaches/CB_Long?view=bio


GLC is tiny, I drive by frequently wondering how they survive at all.   I check their schedule every year to see if anyone interesting is coming to town, but I've only managed to wander over there once to see Martin Luther.   I have noticed a difference in their scheduling lately from playing like schools (ie small christian or bible schools) at their level that required hours of travel to Kentucky, Tennessee etc to playing more of the NAIA/D3 programs in a tighter radius around Michigan, Ohio, Indiana. 

The women's program is relatively new, and there were a couple years where they only had 6 or 7 girls on the roster.  Much more healthy today.

And (per the Holland Sentinel) - Hope had a cancellation and needed another game, so Coach Mo reached out to his former roommate CB Long - the GLC coach.   Actually Morehouse, Long, and Hope asst Colly Carlson all played together and roomed together at Hope.

[Roundball999]

Very nice documentary on Hope WBB's journey over the past three years including the 61 game winning streak, the pressure, and Trine victory at Devos in front of 2400 fans that ended it; the team's tight knit relationships; Coach Mo's delight in being able to coach his daughter Meg, and of course the culmination of the journey with last year's national championship.

https://youtu.be/bnqjUGQ4Tlw

[Riley Zayas]

Very nice documentary on Hope WBB's journey over the past three years including the 61 game winning streak, the pressure, and Trine victory at Devos in front of 2400 fans that ended it; the team's tight knit relationships; Coach Mo's delight in being able to coach his daughter Meg, and of course the culmination of the journey with last year's national championship.

https://youtu.be/bnqjUGQ4Tlw

That was really well done!!

[HOPEful]

I'm really interested to see how Saturday's Trine @ Hope game goes down. Although Trine is deep, I have a hard time envisioning Sam having any level of success against Hope. Trine has great guard play that's capable of winning games when their opponent sells out to stop Sam from getting anything going inside, but this just feels like a matchup nightmare for Coach Rang. Then again, I've said that before and he's proven time and time again how great of a coach he is... so like I said, I'm really interested to see how Saturday goes.

[scottiedawg]

I am excited and interested as well.

I was quite down on Trine early in the year -> they didn't seem like a top 20 team to me.

Lately I dug into what I dubbed "big games", arbitrarily chosen as the games where the sum of both team's Massey ratings < 70.

There have been 46 such games this year.

Only 24 teams have played in > 1.

Trine has played in 3.

Looking at stats in just those games, Trine looks very good. Against BW, ONU, Calvin, Trine is averaging: +10.3 Pt Diff, +0.3 RebDiff, +2.0 TODiff.

Only Gustavus Adolphus, Hope, Trinity Texas, BW are better across those three metrics, in "big games"



   
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

TEAM	COUNT	Pt Diff	Reb Diff	TO Diff	STAT
Gust Adolphus	4	14.0	15.8	(4.0)	25.8
Hope	3	14.7	7.0	2.7	24.3
Trinity TX	2	10.0	1.5	6.5	18.0
Baldwin-Wallace	3	10.3	2.3	1.0	13.7
Trine	3	10.3	0.3	2.0	12.7
UW-Whitewater	7	7.3	3.4	1.9	12.6
UW-Oshkosh	4	5.8	1.3	(0.3)	6.8
UW-Eau Claire	6	1.3	2.2	0.0	3.5
UW-Stout	3	(0.3)	(0.3)	2.0	1.3
Smith	2	4.0	1.0	(5.0)	0.0
UW-River Falls	2	0.0	0.5	(1.0)	(0.5)
Carroll	4	(0.3)	(4.8)	1.8	(3.3)
WashU	2	(4.5)	12.0	(11.0)	(3.5)
UW-LaCrosse	3	(3.7)	(2.7)	2.3	(4.0)
Roger Williams	2	(8.5)	3.5	(2.5)	(7.5)
IL Wesleyan	4	(9.5)	(5.5)	2.3	(12.8)
Bethel MN	2	(5.0)	(11.5)	2.5	(14.0)
Calvin	3	(6.3)	(0.7)	(8.0)	(15.0)
Tufts	3	(8.7)	(7.7)	0.0	(16.3)
Millikin	2	(8.0)	(12.0)	2.0	(18.0)
Hardin-Simmons	2	(10.0)	(1.5)	(6.5)	(18.0)
Wartburg	2	(12.0)	(8.5)	2.0	(18.5)
Augustana IL	2	(21.5)	(3.5)	(2.5)	(27.5)

[scottiedawg]

Week 3 Poll 
#1, Hope -1 vote point, -0% 
win road over Kalamazoo
 
#16, Trine +30 vote points, +19%  (they've added 30 vote points in each of the last two polls)
win home over Olivet
 
#22, Calvin -5 vote points, -2% 
win home over St. Mary's Indiana

[HOPEful]

Week 3 Poll 
#1, Hope -1 vote point, -0% 
win road over Kalamazoo

I have no problem with voters believing NYU is actually slightly better than Hope currently. I have said the same thing since the start of the year. I do think it's strange 1 win against Tufts was enough to push a voter that voted Hope #1 in weeks 1 and 2 to swap Hope and NYU this week. Seems to me that after beating Eau Clare and at Calvin, Hope's certainly only improved their resume since the start of the season. I wonder if Hope beats Trine this weekend, will that same voter swap back?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Week 3 Poll 
#1, Hope -1 vote point, -0% 
win road over Kalamazoo

I have no problem with voters believing NYU is actually slightly better than Hope currently. I have said the same thing since the start of the year. I do think it's strange 1 win against Tufts was enough to push a voter that voted Hope #1 in weeks 1 and 2 to swap Hope and NYU this week. Seems to me that after beating Eau Clare and at Calvin, Hope's certainly only improved their resume since the start of the season. I wonder if Hope beats Trine this weekend, will that same voter swap back?

I suspect they were unaware Tufts was without Maggie Russell.  If NYU had beaten Tufts by 20 with Russell, that would've been a real statement win.

[HOPEful]

I suspect they were unaware Tufts was without Maggie Russell.  If NYU had beaten Tufts by 20 with Russell, that would've been a real statement win.

And yet, Emory did it and is still unranked!? Their only loss is to a very good MHB team.

[scottiedawg]

Agreed on Emory. I'd also push up Framingham St. Oshkosh, Gustavus Adolphus, Stout.

Though on Emory, depending on how you view Massey, the MHB loss is not a great one. 47 losses by teams that received votes. Emory's loss to MHB is the "17th worst loss per Massy rating."  That said, there are 10 teams that received more votes than Emory, that have a "worse loss (per the same Massey rating criteria)"

I'm surprised none of these teams have received any votes:
St. Benedict
UW-Stevens Point
UW-LaCrosse
Wartburg

Ohio Wesleyan is a pretty bad pick for #25.

I also don't really see ETBU, Catholic, Stevens, Messiah, Mary Washington, Cortland St., Trinity Conn, Washington & Jefferson as top 25 teams.

The group of Hope, Trine, Calvin, Albion, might be as strong as the top 4 in any other conference (maybe WIAC better?). But like any very strong top of the conference, losses by any are gonna keep them from rising higher in the polls, even if they're a very strong team.

Calvin losing by 6 to Hope is akin to Springfield losing by 4 to Amherst (akin, but IMO far more impressive), but the body of Calvin's wins are far more impressive than anything Springfield has done.   Alas, Calvin's loss to Trine will keep them far below Springfield, rightly or wrongly. (I think Calvin would beat Springfield).

[TUAngola]

I'm really interested to see how Saturday's Trine @ Hope game goes down. Although Trine is deep, I have a hard time envisioning Sam having any level of success against Hope. Trine has great guard play that's capable of winning games when their opponent sells out to stop Sam from getting anything going inside, but this just feels like a matchup nightmare for Coach Rang. Then again, I've said that before and he's proven time and time again how great of a coach he is... so like I said, I'm really interested to see how Saturday goes.

With the game being played in Holland I don't see Trine keeping this one within 15 points.  It will all come down to defense for us as we don't have the offensive firepower that Hope has, not even close.  We have struggled with perimeter shooting.  No one has been consistent.  I was expecting the Sloneker twins to add much more offensive punch for Trine this year and it just hasn't happened.  Underhill is good defensively but she too has struggled with her 10-15 ft shots.  Freshman Abby Sanner at 6'2 has been improving each and every game I've watched (she backsup Underhill).  But I am afraid in her first game against Hope whether she'll be able to contribute like she has.  Our best athletes are at guard with Wagner, Argyle, Ardis and Hinds.  Hinds has been out with the flu so not sure if she'll be 100% or not.  Freshman Addison Hutson has been getting more playing time and is a good 3 pt shooter if left open.  Transfer Katie Tate from Grand Rapids CCHS is a guard who wants to play like a forward.  I'd like to see her pull up more as she mostly gets into trouble trying to take the ball to the rim.  Wagner is going to have to score close to 20 for us to keep it close, she's by far the best on the team at creating her own shot.  I'd like to see her start but probably won't happen until next year after Ardis graduates. 

[sac]

masseyratings likes Hope by 10 hosting Trine   (by 5 in Angola right now)

Calvin losing by 6 to Hope is akin to Springfield losing by 4 to Amherst (akin, but IMO far more impressive), but the body of Calvin's wins are far more impressive than anything Springfield has done.   Alas, Calvin's loss to Trine will keep them far below Springfield, rightly or wrongly. (I think Calvin would beat Springfield).

it splits a hypothetical Springfield/Calvin game by home court advantage to the winner by 2 at Calvin, 4 at Springfield

[scottiedawg]

masseyratings likes Hope by 10 hosting Trine   (by 5 in Angola right now)

Calvin losing by 6 to Hope is akin to Springfield losing by 4 to Amherst (akin, but IMO far more impressive), but the body of Calvin's wins are far more impressive than anything Springfield has done.   Alas, Calvin's loss to Trine will keep them far below Springfield, rightly or wrongly. (I think Calvin would beat Springfield).

it splits a hypothetical Springfield/Calvin game by home court advantage to the winner by 2 at Calvin, 4 at Springfield

LOL we did exactly the same thing.  Yup, Massey thinks there's very very little between those two teams.

[HOPEful]

I'm really interested to see how Saturday's Trine @ Hope game goes down. Although Trine is deep, I have a hard time envisioning Sam having any level of success against Hope. Trine has great guard play that's capable of winning games when their opponent sells out to stop Sam from getting anything going inside, but this just feels like a matchup nightmare for Coach Rang. Then again, I've said that before and he's proven time and time again how great of a coach he is... so like I said, I'm really interested to see how Saturday goes.

With the game being played in Holland I don't see Trine keeping this one within 15 points.  It will all come down to defense for us as we don't have the offensive firepower that Hope has, not even close.  We have struggled with perimeter shooting.  No one has been consistent.  I was expecting the Sloneker twins to add much more offensive punch for Trine this year and it just hasn't happened.  Underhill is good defensively but she too has struggled with her 10-15 ft shots.  Freshman Abby Sanner at 6'2 has been improving each and every game I've watched (she backsup Underhill).  But I am afraid in her first game against Hope whether she'll be able to contribute like she has.  Our best athletes are at guard with Wagner, Argyle, Ardis and Hinds.  Hinds has been out with the flu so not sure if she'll be 100% or not.  Freshman Addison Hutson has been getting more playing time and is a good 3 pt shooter if left open.  Transfer Katie Tate from Grand Rapids CCHS is a guard who wants to play like a forward.  I'd like to see her pull up more as she mostly gets into trouble trying to take the ball to the rim.  Wagner is going to have to score close to 20 for us to keep it close, she's by far the best on the team at creating her own shot.  I'd like to see her start but probably won't happen until next year after Ardis graduates.

I tend to agree with you. But I've predicted Hope to blow out Trine one too many times now, only to have egg on my face later, that I just won't do it. Still... I just don't see how they get it done without Kelsey, Tara, and Rachael... Maybe if Alyssa, Makayla, Alexis, and Addison catch lightening in a bottle?

[gordonmann]

Agreed on Emory. I'd also push up Framingham St. Oshkosh, Gustavus Adolphus, Stout.

I was surprised that Emory lost votes, too. So surprised that I double checked the votes to make sure i didn't miscalcuate something. But people just changed their mind, I guess.

It's an interesting question whether the Top 4 in the MIAA are better than the Top 4 elsewhere.

I agree that the WIAC is the conference whose top four looks strongest to me, admittedly without putting a lot of thought into it.  Calvin (#2 or #3 in MIAA) over UW-Whitewater (#1 or #2 in WiAC) helps a lot there.

The UAA has three ranked teams at comparable levels to the MIAA. Right now I'd give the edge to the MIAA, but I'd probably take Emory (Lost to UMHB, beat Tufts) over Albion (lost to .500 OWU, does not have a signature win). And Rochester/Trine is close enough to make me pause.

The poll suggests that the NEWMAC should be in the conversation (three teams in the Top 11). I think this could be a case where voters don't know how to differentiate between these three teams and they float up the rankings together until they play each other.

And it would not be shocking for the NESCAC to get there by the end of the year, if Amherst's young talent continues to develop and Russell plays consistently for Tufts. Bowdoin was really down last year but brought a lot of talent back. Trinity's a tough matchup because of its size.