WBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletics Association

[Grutte Dirk]

Maybe so - but then it's not like you get 3400 people out to watch Volleyball.  I will still bet it's the best DIII volleyball court you could find.

But why not put everyone on the main floor?  Why put them off to the side?

I admit, the floor is soooo much nicer lived only for hoops.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Maybe so - but then it's not like you get 3400 people out to watch Volleyball.  I will still bet it's the best DIII volleyball court you could find.

But why not put everyone on the main floor?  Why put them off to the side?

I admit, the floor is soooo much nicer lived only for hoops.

I can think of a couple of reasons:

1. Both the volleyball and basketball courts are very clean - meaning that neither of them have other lines running across the floor.  The volleyball court has a similar design to the basketball court, graphics and all.

2. A volleyball game held in a 3400 seat arena would feel quite empty , even if you had 1000 people there.  A smaller area provides a better atmosphere for the fans and players, and increases your home court advantage.

[tniem]

Bilk,

I gotta say, I do not understand your argument at all.  Volleyball is not played on the same size court as basketball.  It is a smaller court (I know they need space around the out of bounds but even that is smaller).  So why do teams play volleyball on basketball courts?  Because their schools do not allocate the resources to volleyball.  Simple as that.

Hope built a new gym.  And as part of that construction they built it larger (the building) than it needed to be so that they could have a court that was large enough to play volleyball.  Most schools would not have done that.  They would have either put lines on the basketball court and had small crowds in a huge stadium or they would have continued to use the Dow Center.  Hope built its own volleyball court.  This is not some normal situation of being "stuck in a side gym with bleachers".  It is complete with its own volleyball only scoreboard, seating and court designed for volleyball and a nice new wood floor all in the DeVos Fieldhouse. 

I would guess, if you asked the team and the coach, they are very happy with their new digs and would prefer them over playing on the basketball floor. 

And to answer your other question, Hope's volleyball team has been turned around.  This is from the Hope website:

The Flying Dutch posted a perfect 16-0 record in winning the conference championship in Schmidt's second season as head coach. The team posted a 27-8 record this season. Schmidt's two-year record is 46-22.

Calvin got the win in the conference tournament, keeping the Flying Dutch from making the NCAA tournament.  But it appears that Hope is back to its winning ways, winning its first outright regular season title since 2000, which was the last time they were in the NCAAs. 

[Grutte Dirk]

Good points....thanks for the response.

Bilk,

I gotta say, I do not understand your argument at all.

I'll try to be clearer.

So why do teams play volleyball on basketball courts?  Because their schools do not allocate the resources to volleyball.  Simple as that.

So why allocate the nice seating and lighting to basketball and not volleyball?

Hope built a new gym.  And as part of that construction they built it larger (the building) than it needed to be so that they could have a court that was large enough to play volleyball.  Most schools would not have done that.

Just because most schools would not have done it still does not make it right.

It is complete with its own volleyball only scoreboard, seating and court designed for volleyball and a nice new wood floor all in the DeVos Fieldhouse. 

The stadium seating in the basketball arena would be preferable to the bleachers they fans sit in now.  Why not build the volleyball venue with the same bells and whistles as the basketball arena?

I would guess, if you asked the team and the coach, they are very happy with their new digs and would prefer them over playing on the basketball floor. 

True, but I would guess volleyball would like their seating to be as nice as the basketball's.

And to answer your other question, Hope's volleyball team has been turned around. 

But are they in the top-2 or 3 in the NCAA, like the basketball team are, and will continue to be?  Can they bring in the recruits as well as they would with a venue like basketball's?

It bothers me that Hope builds this beautiful basketball arena while letting some of their other sports flounder in staffing and facilities.  In the MIAA so many school make little, if any attempt to be competitive at a national level with most of their teams.  But they still expect the high-end MIAA teams to travel and waste competitive dates on them.

What do you think?

[tniem]

Bilk, have you been to the DeVos at all and looked at the volleyball court?  That may turn this conversation around and end things.

My understanding, FDF, correct me if I am wrong, is the volleyball court does have lighting and bleachers that are as nice as the basketball stadium.  It is not as large but it is brand new and it is more in line with the number of spectators expected to go to a volleyball game.  From what I can tell, it is better than simply having them play on the basketball court, the area is designed just for volleyball.  The bleachers are not the fold up variety, they are the ones used at the end of the basketball stadium that turn for volleyball games.  Not sure what else you want Hope to do for volleyball or less popular sports.

Here is a picture of the floor plan:



As you can see, it is a part of the DeVos Fieldhouse, it has the same seats as the basketball stadium (the left most bleachers shift) and they are not the fold up variety.  The area is designed for volleyball.  It is just as new.  The lighting and seats are up to par. 

You were perfectly clear about your belief that schools should provide for less popular sports (which I happen to agree with).  What you still have not been clear about is why you think Hope has not provided for volleyball.  They have been given a great new facility with all the bells and whistles.  In my opinion, it is better than playing on the main court.  Believe me, if it was not, they would be playing on the basketball DeVos Fieldhouse court (different seasons than basketball so it isn't interfering or anything) and the alums that gave would have saved a million bucks or so.  But for whatever reason the school recognized that volleyball has different needs and built a separate court.  If you are going to continue to criticize this decision, you need to explain what Hope did wrong with this venue not general criticisms of all colleges and apply that as an assumption. 

In terms of other Hope facilities, the biggest needs for a long time have been W Basketball and Volleyball since they were in the student rec activity building and it was crowded.  Hope took care of that.  The next sports related facilities that needs to be examined are the baseball and softball diamonds.  Some decent seating is needed and it would be nice to have a better clubhouse for the home teams.  Longer term, a new pool will be needed at some point.  Otherwise, most of the facilities are in good shape.  The soccer teams have a nice field, the indoor tennis courts are great, track and cross country are functional, golf takes place all over Michigan, and hockey is a good facility.  In fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football. 

[Grutte Dirk]

Bilk, have you been to the DeVos at all and looked at the volleyball court?  That may turn this conversation around and end things.

My understanding, FDF, correct me if I am wrong, is the volleyball court does have lighting and bleachers that are as nice as the basketball stadium. 

They have been given a great new facility with all the bells and whistles.

I guess I would like to see some stadium seating, ie. the fold down chairs, like they have at the basketball venue.  As far as lighting, the west wall could've had some natural light comming throuigh it?  And maybe a way to close it off from the basketball arena (curitan?)

So, with volleyball, it's mainly a seating quality issue.

...it is more in line with the number of spectators expected to go to a volleyball game...Not sure what else you want Hope to do for volleyball or less popular sports.

Your are dead on with this.  The smaller venue is better for volleyball.

You make great points, thanks for your time.  What'ya think about the seating?

[Trailer Dog]

The next sports related facilities that needs to be examined are the baseball and softball diamonds.....a new pool.....Otherwise, most of the facilities are in good shape.....
soccer.....a nice field
indoor tennis courts are great
track and cross country are functional
golf takes place all over Michigan
hockey is a good facility

In fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football. 

Hope's track is worse than many middle schools.  They just had it resurfaced, without adding a steeple pit or appropriate runways for the jumps.

[tniem]

As far as lighting, the west wall could've had some natural light comming throuigh it?

Fair enough.  Not sure the dynamics of how natural light would play with volleyball players.  One criticism for basketball is that for afternoon games there is too much natural light.  But that maybe should have been done.

And maybe a way to close it off from the basketball arena (curitan?)

There is a curtain, or at least I know that was the plan.

So, with volleyball, it's mainly a seating quality issue....What'ya think about the seating?

Would fold down seats be nice?  Sure.  But as a recent student, we would not use it for basketball.  Surely I would not need it for volleyball.  I guess I don't see it as that big of an issues.  Fold down seats are a nice reward to the season ticket holders in my mind.  It doesn't diminish the quality that much.

[tniem]

The next sports related facilities that needs to be examined are the baseball and softball diamonds.....a new pool.....Otherwise, most of the facilities are in good shape.....
soccer.....a nice field
indoor tennis courts are great
track and cross country are functional
golf takes place all over Michigan
hockey is a good facility

In fact, arguably, the teams that have had the worse facilities all these years have been M Basketball and Football. 

Hope's track is worse than many middle schools.  They just had it resurfaced, without adding a steeple pit or appropriate runways for the jumps.

I stand corrected.  I should also clarify that with football I meant it in comparison to other school's fields.  Its a nice venue but certainly it is a bit different than having the locker room as part of the facility.

[Grutte Dirk]

Fair enough.  Not sure the dynamics of how natural light would play with volleyball players.  One criticism for basketball is that for afternoon games there is too much natural light.  But that maybe should have been done.

No, I can see how the uncontrolled light could be a problem.

There is a curtain, or at least I know that was the plan.

Alright, I should know that before I post.

Would fold down seats be nice?  Sure.  But as a recent student, we would not use it for basketball.  Surely I would not need it for volleyball.  I guess I don't see it as that big of an issues.  Fold down seats are a nice reward to the season ticket holders in my mind.  It doesn't diminish the quality that much.

Would nicer seating bring in more alumni and faculty (aka. old folks)?  I think they may add to the atmosphere.

You've pretty much shot me down, point for point...GO DUTCH?

[sac]

Bilk, I don't think you can critisize Hope for its football facility since they don't own it and I'm sure have no control over condition of the field.  The City of Holland owns it and Hope shares it with Holland High.

I would also bet most volleyball players will be quite pleased with the new gym in DeVos correctly called DeYoung Volleyball Gymnasium.

For what its worth Hope's men's golf team plays on one of the finest facilities for any level of golf D1 to D3 at Wuskowhan Players Club.

[Grutte Dirk]

Bilk, I don't think you can critisize Hope for its football facility since they don't own it and I'm sure have no control over condition of the field.  The City of Holland owns it and Hope shares it with Holland High.

I don't think I critisized Hope's football stadium, although I do post in my sleep sometimes.

[oldknight]

If you're looking for a non-Hope opinion re: the ongoing debate over Hope's athletic facilities (and even if you're not) I'll offer mine. I think that tniem, FDF, et. al., win over bilk--at least with respect to volleyball and golf. Having the volleyball players at DeVos in their own separate location is much preferable to placing the competition on the BB floor where the players would have 3000 empty seats to look at. The decision was well thought IMHO.

As to golf, sac is right. I've played Wuskhowhan and it's a fabulous track. You'd be hard pressed to find a college golf team at any level that plays at a nicer venue.

[sac]

Bilk--I may have read between the lines a bit about the football facility........which I think is excellent for D3 actually.

I can share with you that since I stepped on the Hope campus in 1988 they've built 2 soccer fields and improved both the softball and baseball diamonds which need improvement again, redone the track at least once, built an indoor tennis facility, refurbished the Dow Center, and of course built DeVos Fieldhouse.

The improvements are coming at a nice clip actually, it takes time and alot of money, money Hope doesn't always have.  Every academic building on campus has been improved as well.   I think you'll see more improvements as President Bultman's tenure continues, one of the things I've really liked about him is how he understands the importance that athletics plays in a small private college experience for its students.  He seems to be 100% behind Hope athletics.

Since we're on the topic of improvements I've often thought Hope was a little squeezed when it came to space with its athletic facilities.  My hope and maybe this is a long shot is that Hope will consider buying the future empty land the Hart and Cooley plant presently occupies and use it to develop more suitable baseball, softball, track soccer, tennis and intramural fields.

Purchasing that property could really give Hope the oppurtunity to build some first class D3 facilities. 

Pretty good dream huh?

[SKOT]

I can share with you that since I stepped on the Hope campus in 1988 they've built 2 soccer fields and improved both the softball and baseball diamonds which need improvement again, redone the track at least once, built an indoor tennis facility, refurbished the Dow Center, and of course built DeVos Fieldhouse.

The improvements are coming at a nice clip actually, it takes time and alot of money, money Hope doesn't always have.  Every academic building on campus has been improved as well.   I think you'll see more improvements as President Bultman's tenure continues, one of the things I've really liked about him is how he understands the importance that athletics plays in a small private college experience for its students.  He seems to be 100% behind Hope athletics.

Since we're on the topic of improvements I've often thought Hope was a little squeezed when it came to space with its athletic facilities.  My hope and maybe this is a long shot is that Hope will consider buying the future empty land the Hart and Cooley plant presently occupies and use it to develop more suitable baseball, softball, track soccer, tennis and intramural fields.

Hope has RESURFACED the track twice since 1988, but they have still left the high jump, long jump, triple jump and pole vault areas ILLEGAL by NCAA standards.  And, it is still missing a steeple pit. 

That would be amazing if Hope could get their hands on the Hart and Cooley plant.  they would have the space to build something like Benedictine University has in Lisle, IL!  They have an amazing football/track and field/lacrosse/softball/baseball facility.  They hosted the NCAA Softball and Track and Field National Championships this year.  Check it out:

http://www.ben.edu/news/sports_complex/
http://www.ben.edu/news/sports_complex/photo_gallery.asp