FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[MUC57]

Happy Labor Day ⁉️

[SagatagSam]

Congrats Auggie, you're the big winner!

Looking forward to crossing the 200,000 mark on page 13,334 sometime around September 2035!

[BennieDad]

Interesting story by Pat Borzi on the Tommies' jump to D!, including the role played by the Summit League commissioner.

https://www.minnpost.com/education/2020/09/painful-and-seemingly-endless-how-the-university-of-st-thomas-made-the-jump-to-division-i/

[jamtod]

Interesting story by Pat Borzi on the Tommies' jump to D!, including the role played by the Summit League commissioner.

https://www.minnpost.com/education/2020/09/painful-and-seemingly-endless-how-the-university-of-st-thomas-made-the-jump-to-division-i/

Borzi should have talked to the folks here on this board to confirm, since some folks had insider information that this was absolutely orchestrated by UST and any victim claims were bogus.

[OzJohnnie]

I'm convinced.  Up until this point I had thought Esten had left Penn State, joined UST and brought along some of his pals to prepare UST for a jump to DI.  I thought all the talk in the 2014 strategic plan about being a national university by 2020 meant that UST didn't feel the MIAC was big enough any more.  Here I thought that the only true surprise for UST was that they left on the member institutions's terms rather than their own.

But now I realise that the whole idea of going to DI was like a thunderbolt out of the sky.  My eyes are opened.  Little ol' humble UST had no intention other than sitting quietly on the leafy streets of Summit Ave watching the autumn colors arrive and the snow flakes fall before the bright, green glow of spring arrived each year.  Those meanies in the MIAC picked on them with their "ill-conceived decision."  Now I see.

[OldAuggie]

Seems like a move up in athletics but I don't see a fit academically. University of Denver sure, a great school but NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD and Nebraska Omaha? Not really an academic fit with those universities but a step up for the Summit League to add UST for academics.   

As a Gopher Football season ticket holder, the Pioneer League is such a weird league to me, I bet UST drops football in less than 10 years and focuses on hockey and basketball. Loyola University Chicago seems like a good model to follow for UST but the odd sport out in that model is D1 football and they don't play hockey. UST will need to drop sports to stay competitive somewhere at the D1 level.

Go big or go home UST.

[SagatagSam]

Seems like a move up in athletics but I don't see a fit academically. University of Denver sure, a great school but NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD and Nebraska Omaha? Not really an academic fit with those universities but a step up for the Summit League to add UST for academics.   

As a Gopher Football season ticket holder, the Pioneer League is such a weird league to me, I bet UST drops football in less than 10 years and focuses on hockey and basketball. Loyola University Chicago seems like a good model to follow for UST but the odd sport out in that model is D1 football and they don't play hockey. UST will need to drop sports to stay competitive somewhere at the D1 level.

Go big or go home UST.

I've always wondered why the academics portion matters to an athletic conference? I'm seriously asking and not trying to be snarky or condescending. Is it purely a University Presidents bragging rights/status symbol kind of thing? Like, "We don't congregate with mere regional universities in __________ conference"?? Maybe I'm off my rocker on this one and it actually does matter somewhere outside of the administration building, but I've never heard Chris Fowler say during the Sugar Bowl, "We've got two big time, prestigious  R1 universities going at it here today." It seems like a metric an ungracious loser clings to after getting beat down by the rabble rousing M2 school.

"OH YEAH?! SO WHAT IF THE FINAL SCORE WAS 50-3? YOU'LL BE COMING TO OUR SCHOOL EVENTUALLY TO GET YOUR DOCTORATE--IF YOU CAN EVEN GET ACCEPTED INTO OUR PROGRAM."

[MUC57]

Sag.......

Good observation and right on! 🏈 🎓 ⁉️

[OldAuggie]

Seems like a move up in athletics but I don't see a fit academically. University of Denver sure, a great school but NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD and Nebraska Omaha? Not really an academic fit with those universities but a step up for the Summit League to add UST for academics.   

As a Gopher Football season ticket holder, the Pioneer League is such a weird league to me, I bet UST drops football in less than 10 years and focuses on hockey and basketball. Loyola University Chicago seems like a good model to follow for UST but the odd sport out in that model is D1 football and they don't play hockey. UST will need to drop sports to stay competitive somewhere at the D1 level.

Go big or go home UST.

I've always wondered why the academics portion matters to an athletic conference? I'm seriously asking and not trying to be snarky or condescending. Is it purely a University Presidents bragging rights/status symbol kind of thing? Like, "We don't congregate with mere regional universities in __________ conference"?? Maybe I'm off my rocker on this one and it actually does matter somewhere outside of the administration building, but I've never heard Chris Fowler say during the Sugar Bowl, "We've got two big time, prestigious  R1 universities going at it here today." It seems like a metric an ungracious loser clings to after getting beat down by the rabble rousing M2 school.

"OH YEAH?! SO WHAT IF THE FINAL SCORE WAS 50-3? YOU'LL BE COMING TO OUR SCHOOL EVENTUALLY TO GET YOUR DOCTORATE--IF YOU CAN EVEN GET ACCEPTED INTO OUR PROGRAM."

I do understand your position and from the article:

"In Division III, the option was the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (WIAC), made up of schools in the University of Wisconsin system. In Division II, it meant the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (NSIC), a mix of state and private schools in Minnesota, the Dakotas, Iowa and Nebraska with enrollments from 755 (Upper Iowa) to 15,110 (Minnesota State, Mankato). Ryan felt St. Thomas didn't fit either league, academically or athletically."

I guess for me anyway, it comes down to conferences selecting member schools with similar academics. Dig in to D1 and you will see that all but Nebraska in  the Big Ten are research institutions with required AAU membership. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities. 

The MIAC has great academics too and similar core values and objectives among members.  In a bowl game I agree you never hear Chris Fowler make the comparison because well Alabama is a terrible academic school and so is Oklahoma. Nebraska is a very questionable school for Big Ten academic standards. Many say they should be tossed out just for losing AAU accreditation.

Just feels like a contradiction to me. Sorry, not an academic match for a U of MN campus - UMD and the NSIC or the WIAC (UW System - UW Eau Claire and UW LaCrosse are very good schools) but NDSU, Nebraska Omaha, USD or UND? Oh, perfect.

Athletically yes they want more than D2 or D3. So, go for it Tommies! Just don't use academics as an excuse because in the Summit League you are going backwards. 

As a friend said to me when Nebraska joined the Big Ten, conference GPA went down as soon as the Huskers were admitted. So when UST joins the Summit League the conference GPA will go up!

[Texas Ole]

After reading that article especially the part about Texas all I could think was someone is 'All hat and no cattle,' as the saying goes in Texas.  I felt like there was a ton of bull, and I wasn't buying much of it.  UST had few options, and they might not have been ready for the move they were making.  As they sought to be a regional and eventual national university that idea didn't sit well within the MIAC.  When it came to other issues including those regarding student eligibility they were an outlier.  UST plowed through countless warning signs, and they chose a path that conflicted with the rest of the conference.  I don't think UST ever thought they would be forced out of the conference, but I also think they knew it could happen sooner rather than later.  If they didn't think that expulsion from the conference was a possibility then I have some serious questions about the leadership at the school.

As for the academic component to conference affiliations I think that has a lot to do with associations and consortiums.  Schools want to be paired with the other like minded institutions.  When you think of the Big Ten you often think of large research institutions.  When you think of the Ivy League it is elite old private universities.  Some of these conferences also act as a consortium where they collaborate on education projects and research.  A student might be enrolled at one school, but take classes at another.  Last year the Furman QB took all of his classes at Clemson for engineering even though he was enrolled at Furman.  ESPN did a fun piece on him where they informed one of his classes that the QB for Clemson's opponent that Saturday was sitting in a Clemson classroom. 

As for the UST growth and move I think it will benefit all schools in the MIAC.  UST is not a major research institution, but it is a decent university.  For alumni looking at professional programs it gives another opportunity for graduate studies in the Twin Cities.

[faunch]

MSHSL is in some serious financial trouble and is asking high schools for significant fee increases. Maybe it's time for schools to withdraw and disband the league then rebuild for 2021-22.

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-high-schools-hit-with-kick-in-the-gut-sports-fee-increases/572362592/

[hazzben]

Seems like a move up in athletics but I don't see a fit academically. University of Denver sure, a great school but NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD and Nebraska Omaha? Not really an academic fit with those universities but a step up for the Summit League to add UST for academics.   

As a Gopher Football season ticket holder, the Pioneer League is such a weird league to me, I bet UST drops football in less than 10 years and focuses on hockey and basketball. Loyola University Chicago seems like a good model to follow for UST but the odd sport out in that model is D1 football and they don't play hockey. UST will need to drop sports to stay competitive somewhere at the D1 level.

Go big or go home UST.

I've always wondered why the academics portion matters to an athletic conference? I'm seriously asking and not trying to be snarky or condescending. Is it purely a University Presidents bragging rights/status symbol kind of thing? Like, "We don't congregate with mere regional universities in __________ conference"?? Maybe I'm off my rocker on this one and it actually does matter somewhere outside of the administration building, but I've never heard Chris Fowler say during the Sugar Bowl, "We've got two big time, prestigious  R1 universities going at it here today." It seems like a metric an ungracious loser clings to after getting beat down by the rabble rousing M2 school.

"OH YEAH?! SO WHAT IF THE FINAL SCORE WAS 50-3? YOU'LL BE COMING TO OUR SCHOOL EVENTUALLY TO GET YOUR DOCTORATE--IF YOU CAN EVEN GET ACCEPTED INTO OUR PROGRAM."

I do understand your position and from the article:

"In Division III, the option was the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (WIAC), made up of schools in the University of Wisconsin system. In Division II, it meant the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference (NSIC), a mix of state and private schools in Minnesota, the Dakotas, Iowa and Nebraska with enrollments from 755 (Upper Iowa) to 15,110 (Minnesota State, Mankato). Ryan felt St. Thomas didn't fit either league, academically or athletically."

I guess for me anyway, it comes down to conferences selecting member schools with similar academics. Dig in to D1 and you will see that all but Nebraska in  the Big Ten are research institutions with required AAU membership. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities. 

The MIAC has great academics too and similar core values and objectives among members.  In a bowl game I agree you never hear Chris Fowler make the comparison because well Alabama is a terrible academic school and so is Oklahoma. Nebraska is a very questionable school for Big Ten academic standards. Many say they should be tossed out just for losing AAU accreditation.

Just feels like a contradiction to me. Sorry, not an academic match for a U of MN campus - UMD and the NSIC or the WIAC (UW System - UW Eau Claire and UW LaCrosse are very good schools) but NDSU, Nebraska Omaha, USD or UND? Oh, perfect.

Athletically yes they want more than D2 or D3. So, go for it Tommies! Just don't use academics as an excuse because in the Summit League you are going backwards. 

As a friend said to me when Nebraska joined the Big Ten, conference GPA went down as soon as the Huskers were admitted. So when UST joins the Summit League the conference GPA will go up!

Nebraska had AAU membership when they joined. They lost it because the AAU moved the goalposts and would no longer count the research done at the Medical School as counting towards Nebraska's numbers. They also don't count Agricultural research, which Nebraska funds heavily.

But to the accusation that the GPA of the conference went down, simply not true. There's not a Power 5 athletic department in the nation that has a stronger track record when it comes to academic support for student athletes or their performance in the classroom. For instance, they have an NCAA record 108 Academic All American's in Football alone.

[OzJohnnie]

Athletically yes they want more than D2 or D3. So, go for it Tommies! Just don't use academics as an excuse because in the Summit League you are going backwards. 

So... how long until a Summit #Texit?  10 years?

[OzJohnnie]

Sigh.  Oh well.  Opportunity missed.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/05/army-wallops-middle-tennessee-in-front-of-4300-cadets/

[SagatagSam]

Sigh.  Oh well.  Opportunity missed.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/05/army-wallops-middle-tennessee-in-front-of-4300-cadets/

Are you referring to the final paragraph of the story, Oz?