FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[USee]

Asked my uncle, who's a football official. I pointed out the jersey tug. His take, take it as you will:

"I saw that in the video. To me that's not enough for a flag because it didn't really impede the D end."

Did you show him the false start? I'm still trying to figure that one out. Seemed clear the defense came across the line and then the lineman moved.

You obviously didn't see the St John's game last week. In college, if the DLine enters the neutral zone and the OL jumps, its a false start on the offense. Different rule in the NFL (would be a defensive penalty). 77 on Bethel should not have moved and if you snap the ball its a free play and offsides.

[Johns Knees]

Asked my uncle, who's a football official. I pointed out the jersey tug. His take, take it as you will:

"I saw that in the video. To me that's not enough for a flag because it didn't really impede the D end."

Did you show him the false start? I'm still trying to figure that one out. Seemed clear the defense came across the line and then the lineman moved.

You obviously didn't see the St John's game last week. In college, if the DLine enters the neutral zone and the OL jumps, its a false start on the offense. Different rule in the NFL (would be a defensive penalty). 77 on Bethel should not have moved and if you snap the ball its a free play and offsides.

I did see it. It was explained then that the player directly opposite the defensive player needs to move.

In the SJU game, it was a guard on the other side of the line.

In this game it was the tackle responsible for blocking the defender.

Maybe I misunderstood the college rule.

My other thought was he reacted too late and the defender was no longer in the neutral zone.

[USee]

I might be wrong but I don't think an offensive player can move before the snap even if the DL is in the neutral zone.

[hazzben]

Yeah a tug for sure. Ref probably gets more grief if you don't call this.

https://x.com/MartyDietz50/status/1868023390428123601

The issue is they didn't call that stuff the entire game. I could go back and find a dozen jersey grabs on Sus Scrambles that were no calls. He wasn't getting to the qb past Janes (#58). It had no bearing on the play. And again, you let much more egregious holds go the rest of the game. 

[RoyalsFan]

Asked my uncle, who's a football official. I pointed out the jersey tug. His take, take it as you will:

"I saw that in the video. To me that's not enough for a flag because it didn't really impede the D end."

Did you show him the false start? I'm still trying to figure that one out. Seemed clear the defense came across the line and then the lineman moved.

I guess the college rule is different than the NFL rule. That would have been an offisdes in the NFL, but an offensive lineman can't move (unless he is touched by a defender) even if a defender is in the neutral zone. At least that is how it was explained to me.

[hazzben]

Asked my uncle, who's a football official. I pointed out the jersey tug. His take, take it as you will:

"I saw that in the video. To me that's not enough for a flag because it didn't really impede the D end."

Did you show him the false start? I'm still trying to figure that one out. Seemed clear the defense came across the line and then the lineman moved.

You obviously didn't see the St John's game last week. In college, if the DLine enters the neutral zone and the OL jumps, its a false start on the offense. Different rule in the NFL (would be a defensive penalty). 77 on Bethel should not have moved and if you snap the ball its a free play and offsides.

No what they called last week was that if the OL jumps from the other side of the center it's by rule a false start. The explanation the ref gave in the SJU game was that the OLineman who reacted wasn't the player directly across from the defender.

[RoyalsFan]

Yeah a tug for sure. Ref probably gets more grief if you don't call this.

https://x.com/MartyDietz50/status/1868023390428123601

The issue is they didn't call that stuff the entire game. I could go back and find a dozen jersey grabs on Sus Scrambles that were no calls. He wasn't getting to the qb past Janes (#58). It had no bearing on the play. And again, you let much more egregious holds go the rest of the game. 

Exactly - there were plenty of times I saw Bethel defenders getting their jersey grabbed and no calls. Plus the fact he was nowhere near Drews and had absolutely no impact on the play. The refs didn't call it all game but decide to call it on the final play?

[USee]

Asked my uncle, who's a football official. I pointed out the jersey tug. His take, take it as you will:

"I saw that in the video. To me that's not enough for a flag because it didn't really impede the D end."

Did you show him the false start? I'm still trying to figure that one out. Seemed clear the defense came across the line and then the lineman moved.

You obviously didn't see the St John's game last week. In college, if the DLine enters the neutral zone and the OL jumps, its a false start on the offense. Different rule in the NFL (would be a defensive penalty). 77 on Bethel should not have moved and if you snap the ball its a free play and offsides.

No what they called last week was that if the OL jumps from the other side of the center it's by rule a false start. The explanation the ref gave in the SJU game was that the OLineman who reacted wasn't the player directly across from the defender.

I am not an expert by any means, but I don't think it matters who is across from whom. If the OL jumps and isn't touched, its a false start.

[hazzben]

Impartial observer here...

Any time a shoulder pad is able to be seen due to a jersey being pulled a holding call typically follows.

I also do not think it impacted the play but yeah that's normally a flag.

Yeah, but they didn't call the preceding 20 of them during the game. They let it slide all day, in plays where the BU (16 and 34 probably got jersey pulled 6 times alone) defender was literally touching the ball carrier. Here the DE had no clear path to Drews. 

[RoyalsFan]

No what they called last week was that if the OL jumps from the other side of the center it's by rule a false start. The explanation the ref gave in the SJU game was that the OLineman who reacted wasn't the player directly across from the defender.

Is there anything in the college rule book that explains this situation? I have seen different explanations but I haven't found anything in a rule book that clearly explains whether this should have been an offsides or false start.

[GoldandBlueBU]

Impartial observer here...

Any time a shoulder pad is able to be seen due to a jersey being pulled a holding call typically follows.

I also do not think it impacted the play but yeah that's normally a flag.

Yeah, but they didn't call the preceding 20 of them during the game. They let it slide all day, in plays where the BU (16 and 34 probably got jersey pulled 6 times alone) defender was literally touching the ball carrier. Here the DE had no clear path to Drews. 

Agree - I don't hate that holding call as a single isolated play - and while I'm not a football ref, as a basketball ref - I generally have a lot of tolerance for judgement calls - the "game is over" call at the end of the game was a misapplication of a rule - which I don't have much patience for.  (not that it really mattered - but I don't know how you blow that)  The problem was that offensive line and defensive line play was pretty consistently "let them play" all day, and you pull out a flag on that one play?  A precedent had been set for 4 quarters, and that stood until the very last play...

Even though it was a very bitter ending - quite a season - new head coach, new QB, new Offensive Coordinator - getting to the elite 8 is a big deal.

A lot of holes to fill at the skill positions on offense next year - hopefully there are some younger receivers who are excited about the opportunities that will come with Kidder and Niewald graduating, and having Drews with a season under his belt can get them up to speed quickly.

[USee]

No what they called last week was that if the OL jumps from the other side of the center it's by rule a false start. The explanation the ref gave in the SJU game was that the OLineman who reacted wasn't the player directly across from the defender.

Is there anything in the college rule book that explains this situation? I have seen different explanations but I haven't found anything in a rule book that clearly explains whether this should have been an offsides or false start.

I found this online which now has me questioning the call:

Offside ARTICLE 2 After the ball is ready for play, offside occurs (Rule 7-1-5) when a defensive player:
a Is in or beyond the neutral zone when the ball is legally snapped; or
b Contacts an opponent beyond the neutral zone before the ball is snapped; or
c Contacts the ball before it is snapped; or
d Threatens an offensive lineman, causing an immediate reaction, before the ball is snapped (Rule 7-1-2-b-3-Exception, A R 7-1-3-V Note); or
e Crosses the neutral zone and charges toward a Team A back (A R 7-1-5III); or
f Is not behind their restraining line when the ball is legally free-kicked (Rule 6-1-2) Offside occurs when one or more players of the kicking team are not behind their restraining line when the ball is legally free-kicked (Exception: The kicker and holder are not offside when they are beyond their restraining line )

[RoyalsFan]

Agree - I don't hate that holding call as a single isolated play - and while I'm not a football ref, as a basketball ref - I generally have a lot of tolerance for judgement calls - the "game is over" call at the end of the game was a misapplication of a rule - which I don't have much patience for.  (not that it really mattered - but I don't know how you blow that)  The problem was that offensive line and defensive line play was pretty consistently "let them play" all day, and you pull out a flag on that one play?  A precedent had been set for 4 quarters, and that stood until the very last play...

I couldn't believe they were saying the game was over - aren't these refs supposed to know the rules? At least they finally got it straightened out, but that was terrible. The only way the game would have been over is if the defense declined the penalty thinking the game was over - but that would have meant the td stood. Wonder what kind of chaos that would have caused. 

[TheChucker]

No what they called last week was that if the OL jumps from the other side of the center it's by rule a false start. The explanation the ref gave in the SJU game was that the OLineman who reacted wasn't the player directly across from the defender.

Is there anything in the college rule book that explains this situation? I have seen different explanations but I haven't found anything in a rule book that clearly explains whether this should have been an offsides or false start.

I found this online which now has me questioning the call:

Offside ARTICLE 2 After the ball is ready for play, offside occurs (Rule 7-1-5) when a defensive player:
a Is in or beyond the neutral zone when the ball is legally snapped; or
b Contacts an opponent beyond the neutral zone before the ball is snapped; or
c Contacts the ball before it is snapped; or
d Threatens an offensive lineman, causing an immediate reaction, before the ball is snapped (Rule 7-1-2-b-3-Exception, A R 7-1-3-V Note); or
e Crosses the neutral zone and charges toward a Team A back (A R 7-1-5III); or
f Is not behind their restraining line when the ball is legally free-kicked (Rule 6-1-2) Offside occurs when one or more players of the kicking team are not behind their restraining line when the ball is legally free-kicked (Exception: The kicker and holder are not offside when they are beyond their restraining line )

The bolded is correct and is occasionally called but not often. I was watching an Iowa game recently where their D-line routinely makes violent lateral moves before the ball is snapped to bother the O-line. The announcers discussed how it's legal to make sudden lateral moves but not forward moves towards the line.

[RoyalsFan]

I found this online which now has me questioning the call:

Offside ARTICLE 2 After the ball is ready for play, offside occurs (Rule 7-1-5) when a defensive player:
a Is in or beyond the neutral zone when the ball is legally snapped; or
b Contacts an opponent beyond the neutral zone before the ball is snapped; or
c Contacts the ball before it is snapped; or
d Threatens an offensive lineman, causing an immediate reaction, before the ball is snapped (Rule 7-1-2-b-3-Exception, A R 7-1-3-V Note); or
e Crosses the neutral zone and charges toward a Team A back (A R 7-1-5III); or
f Is not behind their restraining line when the ball is legally free-kicked (Rule 6-1-2) Offside occurs when one or more players of the kicking team are not behind their restraining line when the ball is legally free-kicked (Exception: The kicker and holder are not offside when they are beyond their restraining line )

Pretty subjective then - what exactly does 'threaten' mean? Don't leave it in a ref's hands to determine what 'threaten' means. Use the same rule the NFL uses, if the defender is in the neutral zone first then it is offsides - no interpretation needed. It also doesn't say the defender has to be directly across from the offensive lineman, but in this case he was, it was different in the SJU/SUS game.

Probably nit picking here, but I don't like the word immediate either - what is immediate? 1 second, 2 seconds? And starting when? If the lineman moves while the defender is in the neutral zone, isn't that immediate to when the defender is in the neutral zone?