FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hazzben]

Redtooth- youre comparing 27 game totals with 15 game totals. Id hope the 27 game totals are larger. 

On a per-game (94.1 v. 88.3) and per-catch (13.2 v. 13.6) basis, the two are essentially even at this point in their careers.

Elliott had a phoneomenal junior & senior season... who knows if Waldvogel will fall short, equal or surpass?

Maniac...yes Waldvogel has put up some good stats, and he may have stats comparable to Blake some day...but as illustrated by Red Tooth he has alot of work to do to catch him. 

Sorry to sour you Johnnies, but while I agree that Waldvoogel is not at Blake Elliot's level yet.  I'm not sure the argument is closed that Blake is the Best MIAC receiver ever.

Stat wise, Scott Hvistendahl was a better receiver.  Did he dominate in the Stagg Bowl and win a national title?  No, but that had a lot more to do with the quality of talent around him.  In fact, I think you could make the argument that his stats are that much more impressive because of it.  Augsburg had a solid team in 1997, but in 1996 and 1998 they were average at best.  Hvistendahl was the main option.  Every fan new it and every defense was geared to stop him, especially in '98.  Unlike SJU in 2003, when Elliot was the hands down best option, but on a team loaded with talent.  You couldn't just game plan for just BE.

This isn't meant to take anything away from Blake.  He is one of the all-time D3 greats.  But lets not forget Hvistendahl in the midst of this Johnnie love fest.  He was at least as good as Elliot, and you could maybe make the argument better. 

I'd love to see a comparison of stats for all three laid side by side...

[hazzben]

That being said, my point was that UST has a good O-Line.

Maybe this is a better indication?

http://www.tommiesports.com/ftbl/news/TeamWeek_9-22.html

Also UST ranks 16th in rushing offense (257.6); seventh in scoring (44.0 ppg); 19th in total offense (465.2 ypg) two or less sacks allowed.

Wartman is 11th in rushing (132.0 ypg), first in scoring (18.6 ppg) and 26th in all-purpose yards (158.6 ypg).

To me stats like this show that the line has definately been doing some heavy lifting this season.

And as I said in the post, I'm not arguing that they aren't good.  Nor, for that matter is anyone.  I think they clearly have a very good O-Line.  But so does Bethel and SJU.  It will be interesting to see how these lines do head 2 head.  I would argue the best 3 D-Lines in the conference are BU, UST and SJU.  The MIAC stats seem to bear this out as well.

[DustySJU]

Redtooth- youre comparing 27 game totals with 15 game totals. Id hope the 27 game totals are larger. 

On a per-game (94.1 v. 88.3) and per-catch (13.2 v. 13.6) basis, the two are essentially even at this point in their careers.

Elliott had a phoneomenal junior & senior season... who knows if Waldvogel will fall short, equal or surpass?

Maniac...yes Waldvogel has put up some good stats, and he may have stats comparable to Blake some day...but as illustrated by Red Tooth he has alot of work to do to catch him. 

Sorry to sour you Johnnies, but while I agree that Waldvoogel is not at Blake Elliot's level yet.  I'm not sure the argument is closed that Blake is the Best MIAC receiver ever.

Stat wise, Scott Hvistendahl was a better receiver.  Did he dominate in the Stagg Bowl and win a national title?  No, but that had a lot more to do with the quality of talent around him.  In fact, I think you could make the argument that his stats are that much more impressive because of it.  Augsburg had a solid team in 1997, but in 1996 and 1998 they were average at best.  Hvistendahl was the main option.  Every fan new it and every defense was geared to stop him, especially in '98.  Unlike SJU in 2003, when Elliot was the hands down best option, but on a team loaded with talent.  You couldn't just game plan for just BE.

This isn't meant to take anything away from Blake.  He is one of the all-time D3 greats.  But lets not forget Hvistendahl in the midst of this Johnnie love fest.  He was at least as good as Elliot, and you could maybe make the argument better. 

I'd love to see a comparison of stats for all three laid side by side...

Let's not forget two Stagg Bowl appearances, One Hula Bowl Appearance and more unreal plays than any human is capable of describing.  Sports writers in San Antonio, Texas were so amazed of his performance vs Trinity College in the semis in 2002, while suffering from the flu, they were honestly held speechless.

No doubt Scott H. was a good one... Blake Elliott was a spectacular one!

[sju56321]

I hear TC is out looking for Kofoed-any truth to the rumor??

[WashedUp]

Is the Tommie offensive line really that good or will they be exposed this weekend?

Line is pretty good: http://www.tommiesports.com/ftbl/news/Josh_10-13.html...top notch for D3.

That blog post was just silly and amateur!  I won't argue against the quality of player Ostrue is, he is definitely a top flight D3 lineman. 

But seriously, "-Josh's parents love him. It's not just about football for the South St. Paul native, who has a 3.00 gpa and aspires to attend medical school."

What!?!?!?!  Josh's parents love him.  Stop the presses!

Then again, I guess when you're a Tommie, you can't take for granted that your parents will love you 

As for the 3.00 gpa and plans for medschool, for his sake, here's to hoping he absolutely dominates the MCAT...

Well from an objective standpoint 3.00 from a good academic MIAC school goes further than it would say you received a 3.00 from Mankato St. or Winona...I think we can all agree on that. That being said, my point was that UST has a good O-Line.

True, but what does this have to do with UST?

[faunch]

Faunch: TDT is salivating over this pork shoulder.  Should be excellent.  Do you have some good rolls?

Just don't drool on your keyboard.  I do have nice buns....(just ask my wife)...however the buns for the pork are the Costco variety.  Can't pass up 16 for $2.49.
Here's a little something to keep the line of saliva flowing full force.  This picture is from this summer's Holy Spirit School, Holy Trinity of BBQ party (Ribs, Brisket and Pulled Pork).

[TC]

Hvistendahl was the main option.  Every fan new it and every defense was geared to stop him, especially in '98. 

And every pass went his way.  The "no talent" thing cuts both ways.  That's why it's virtually impossible to effectively compare D3 statistics.

I know you touch on it in your post, but do you want to compare the stats that Hvistendahl put up against a MIAC schedule and two playoff games versus what Elliott compiled against Pacific Lutheran, Hardin-Simmons, Linfield, Trinity, and Mount Union, etc., in 4 deep playoff runs?  And what do you make of the fact that, on a very talented team in 2003, St. John's stopped passing the ball the Elliott and just started handing it to him whenever they really needed to move the ball?

Hvistendahl was good at football.  But just because he caught a bazzillion passes for a cubic ton of yards and infinity touchdowns doesn't mean he's the best receiver in the history of the conference.

But in case you do want to go just off of simplistic counting stats, which one of these career lines would you take?
42 games, 285 receptions, 4,696 yards, 40 TDs
57 games, 369 receptions, 4,826 yards, 63 TDs
32 games, 101 receptions, 1,738 yards, 20 TDs
40 games, 144 receptions, 2,232 yards, 29 TDs
40 games, 247 receptions, 3,282 yards, 40 TDs

Also, can you name those 5 MIAC all-time great WRs?

*****

Settle down, Clark.  I wasn't taking a shot at tmert Jr.  

[TC]

I hear TC is out looking for Kofoed-any truth to the rumor??

I would feel more comfortable with Alex Kofoed under center on Saturday than Joe Boyle.  Would you?

[OzJohnnie]

UST hasn't even managed to beat the Johnnies yet, much less since their freshman class was a dream in mum's eye.  And now they are ready to replace the has-been Elliott?

Someone show the chickens back to their eggs; they haven't hatched yet.

[WashedUp]

Hvistendahl was the main option.  Every fan new it and every defense was geared to stop him, especially in '98. 

And every pass went his way.  The "no talent" thing cuts both ways.  That's why it's virtually impossible to effectively compare D3 statistics.

I know you touch on it in your post, but do you want to compare the stats that Hvistendahl put up against a MIAC schedule and two playoff games versus what Elliott compiled against Pacific Lutheran, Hardin-Simmons, Linfield, Trinity, and Mount Union, etc., in 4 deep playoff runs?  And what do you make of the fact that, on a very talented team in 2003, St. John's stopped passing the ball the Elliott and just started handing it to him whenever they really needed to move the ball?

Hvistendahl was good at football.  But just because he caught a bazzillion passes for a cubic ton of yards and infinity touchdowns doesn't mean he's the best receiver in the history of the conference.

But in case you do want to go just off of simplistic counting stats, which one of these career lines would you take?
42 games, 285 receptions, 4,696 yards, 40 TDs
57 games, 369 receptions, 4,826 yards, 63 TDs
32 games, 101 receptions, 1,738 yards, 20 TDs
40 games, 144 receptions, 2,232 yards, 29 TDs
40 games, 247 receptions, 3,282 yards, 40 TDs

Also, can you name those 5 MIAC all-time great WRs?

*****

Settle down, Clark.  I wasn't taking a shot at tmert Jr.  

Two more lines that match up statistically:

34 games, 220 receptions, 2766 yards, 26 TDs
37 games, 158 receptions, 2590 yards, 28 TDs

[D O.C.]

stopped passing the ball to Elliott and just started handing it to him whenever they really needed to move the ball?

That is what The Grand Old Man did in that November chill to beat LINFIELD in 2003. Should have defensed it just in case, but looked like we did not.
Pre-1999 actually have no opinion but one of a short line of MVP B.E.s would get my vote

[TC]

Two more lines that match up statistically:

34 games, 220 receptions, 2766 yards, 26 TDs
37 games, 158 receptions, 2590 yards, 28 TDs

That would be Matt Frank and Chris Gardner, right?  I'll admit, when I was considering the MIAC's best receivers EVAR, Carleton's vaunted pass offense wasn't the first to spring to mind.  But yes, they were both good at football.

[WashedUp]

Two more lines that match up statistically:

34 games, 220 receptions, 2766 yards, 26 TDs
37 games, 158 receptions, 2590 yards, 28 TDs

That would be Matt Frank and Chris Gardner, right?  I'll admit, when I was considering the MIAC's best receivers EVAR, Carleton's vaunted pass offense wasn't the first to spring to mind.  But yes, they were both good at football.

I was just comparing stats, but if you are going to put Winford in that list you have to include those two.  Talent wise they were all very even.

[TC]

If you think Winford looked out of place on that list...

[WashedUp]

If you think Winford looked out of place on that list...

I think everybody but Elliot and Hvistendahl looked out of place on that list.