FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[sjusection105]

Great afternoon in Collegeville.  Thanks for the VIP 50 yard line seats Veek.  It was a pleasure to talk some pigskin with '78 National Champion QB Jeff Norman.  Also ran into my pals Chewey and Brice following the game.  They are confirmed for Mick's Office on the Friday night before the Johnnie/Cobber game.

TDT, if you are name dropping the "Who's Who's" of Johnnie football, past & present....how could you omit The Trickster? 

[faunch]

3070? Really?

Go on... I'm listening.

3070 means __________?

That's not the last four digits of your social security number is it?

UST attendance for the home opener.  Last year's conference championship and this season's #1 conference ranking seem to really have captured the attention of the Tommie nation.  I attended the Cretin-Derham / Eastridge game on Friday night at O'Shaughnessy and think there was about the same number in attendance. 

[hazzben]

3070? Really?

Go on... I'm listening.

3070 means __________?

That's not the last four digits of your social security number is it?

UST attendance for the home opener.  Last year's conference championship and this season's #1 conference ranking seem to really have captured the attention of the Tommie nation.  I attended the Cretin-Derham / Eastridge game on Friday night at O'Shaughnessy and think there was about the same number in attendance.

Not this again...

If we're really looking to validate a program based on attendance numbers, then DIII football just sucks compared to the glorious and unimpeachable examples of FBS programs. I hear this all the time from people who have no association with DIII. They legitimately think small crowd = irrelevant and inconsequential. We only feed this junk if we pile it on each other. Great if SJU had 7,000 or whatever it was. And 15 high schools in TX had 20,000+ so they must be more legit and have more passionate fans. Not buying it for a second. I think this whole argument is just tired.

[hazzben]

I didn't realize how big Bruns was (6-3, 215). Are we seeing the second coming of Tom Linnemann? (sans the wit and sarcasm)

That would depend on where he is big wouldn't it? If I remember correctly, TL carried a fair amount of his weight around the midsection. 

Not to be a wise guy ( and you know I'm not) but reading about, and hearing his own words, Mr Linneman carried more than a fair share of his "weight" above the neck too.

No argument here.

[OzJohnnie]

More interesting to me will be CCO's ratings for the broadcast.  Although I'm always looking for ways to stick it to St Thomas, I hope that this foray into major market major media is successful.  How many more listeners would CCO need over the successful Johnnie football network?  And does CCO broadcast statewide?  Can Tommie fans get the game anywhere in Minnesota?

[Pat Coleman]

If we're really looking to validate a program based on attendance numbers, then DIII football just sucks compared to the glorious and unimpeachable examples of FBS programs. I hear this all the time from people who have no association with DIII. They legitimately think small crowd = irrelevant and inconsequential. We only feed this junk if we pile it on each other.

+1

[tmerton]

Best feature I have ever seen from ESPN:

http://search.espn.go.com/welles-crowther/video/

[faunch]

If we're really looking to validate a program based on attendance numbers, then DIII football just sucks compared to the glorious and unimpeachable examples of FBS programs. I hear this all the time from people who have no association with DIII. They legitimately think small crowd = irrelevant and inconsequential. We only feed this junk if we pile it on each other.

+1

Did I ever compare D3 to D1??? Does it even make sense to do that? 

I think there is a valid point to be made.  If I were an 18 year old kid looking to play "college" football I'd like to do so in an environment that has an atmosphere that is a step up from high school.
I would think that a school in a major metropolitan area with a big time radio broadcast signal and enrollment of over 5000 could easily draw more fans than a school with an enrollment of 1800.
I find it interesting the SJU outdrew the rest of the league on opening day.

I find it very interesting that the two region finalists were out drew on opening day by the 3rd place team in the league.  All the success that BU has had the past 10 years and the recent success of UST has not really created much of a fan base. 

Yes I know I'm biased...so what.
If attendance doesn't matter then why is UST raising adult ticket prices for the SJU game by almost 43%?  If attendance doesn't matter why even keep it as a statistic? 

BTW....last year's home opener crowd at UST is listed as 4000 plus.  That was against UW River Falls (my guess is that the Falcons brought a decent crowd).
BU's opening day attendance last year was 3126
SJU"s opening day attendance last year 7488
 
2011 Opening day attendance figures:
St. Olaf hosting Luther           661
BU hosting Simpson           2517
Augs @ Concordia - Wisconsin    319
Carleton hosting Carthage       1147
UST hosting St. Norbert          3070
Total                        7714

SJU hosting  Northwestern         7834   

[faunch]

More interesting to me will be CCO's ratings for the broadcast.  Although I'm always looking for ways to stick it to St Thomas, I hope that this foray into major market major media is successful.  How many more listeners would CCO need over the successful Johnnie football network?  And does CCO broadcast statewide?  Can Tommie fans get the game anywhere in Minnesota?

Will the UST / WCCO thing will be long lasting?  The geriatric neighbor's got nothing to broadcast anymore and that's why they're taking the Tommies money.  In the past 5 years or so they've lost the Twins and Gophers... all they've got now is T-Wolves (BFD that is).  If they have a chance to add more compelling programing they'll do it in a second. 

Go back to my comments regarding attendance.  Do you really think that a team drawing a paltry 3000 fans a game is going to have significant ratings on a radio broadcast? 
This is more of a sign of where WCCO has fallen to in Twin Cities radio market.  Grandpa Sports just isn't relevant anymore. 
A friend of mine once was the producer of the Chad and Dan Show on KFAN.  He reminded me that back in KFAN's early days they used to broadcast the MIAC game of the week.  For some reason KFAN doesn't do that anymore.... 

[hazzben]

If we're really looking to validate a program based on attendance numbers, then DIII football just sucks compared to the glorious and unimpeachable examples of FBS programs. I hear this all the time from people who have no association with DIII. They legitimately think small crowd = irrelevant and inconsequential. We only feed this junk if we pile it on each other.

+1

Did I ever compare D3 to D1??? Does it even make sense to do that? 

I think there is a valid point to be made.  If I were an 18 year old kid looking to play "college" football I'd like to do so in an environment that has an atmosphere that is a step up from high school.
I would think that a school in a major metropolitan area with a big time radio broadcast signal and enrollment of over 5000 could easily draw more fans than a school with an enrollment of 1800.
I find it interesting the SJU outdrew the rest of the league on opening day.

I find it very interesting that the two region finalists were out drew on opening day by the 3rd place team in the league.  All the success that BU has had the past 10 years and the recent success of UST has not really created much of a fan base. 

Yes I know I'm biased...so what.
If attendance doesn't matter then why is UST raising adult ticket prices for the SJU game by almost 43%?  If attendance doesn't matter why even keep it as a statistic? 

You also hosted the only opponent within 100 miles. Good for you.

And no one is questioning your fan attendance superiority. I might question your fan participation superiority. Fan for fan, I'll take Bethel's any day. But again, big deal that you've got the most fans or that someone else has rowdier ones.

Your point is clearly that SJU is superior because they draw (notice how I used the correct verb tense  ) more fans. As someone who grew up in a college town in the middle of nowhere, being a college in the middle of nowhere will definitely draw a nice crowd for a good football team. There's nothing else to do on Saturday afternoon! Believe me, I grew up doing just this! You've also got 50+ years of tradition built up to create a nice fan base. Bethel's dealing with a decade+. But for the DIII level, both UST and Bethel have a pretty solid fan base.

And no, you didn't bring up DI. But you state that an 18 year old kid will choose to play in the environment/atmosphere that is a step up from high school. Your implication is clearly that the bigger the crowd, the better the experience. Maybe. But that's one of many things that factor into a decision for a kid. But again, if that's your argument, then SJU's gameday experience is inferior to countless large high schools in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and the South. These places draw tens of thousands of fans on a weekly basis. Your attendance record last year, the best atmosphere collegeville's ever produced, wouldn't hold a candle to TX high school playoffs. But hey, if your whole recruiting ploy is getting kids that can only perform in front of a large crowd, more power to ya!

I distinctly remember after the 409 game, Sam Lacy and I were being interviewed and were asked if the crowd size and noise affected us. Sam just laughed. He played football in Dallas and won a state title in the largest class his senior year. Their biggest playoff crowd was 3 times what we drew that day. But little old Bethel was still his favorite. The DIII experience simply goes a lot further than crowd size.

I just think this is silly. And humorous that you seem so fixated on attendance numbers. Really? Maybe it matters when you're up recruiting against UST and their facilities. But Bethel is by and large going after such different kids from UST and SJU that I just don't think this matters. And again, if your argument is correct, then the fan and player experience at a DI game is better than a DIII game because the attendance is so much greater. I'm just not buying it. And I've wasted too much time on this silly argument.

[sjusection105]

   And does CCO broadcast statewide?  Can Tommie fans get the game anywhere in Minnesota?

No and No
WCCO Coverage Map

[OzJohnnie]

That radio locator site is interesting.  I did a quick comparison of the areas of coverage and I think WCCO has our three stations beat in total coverage square miles, but I bet the distribution of our three stations actually has more people covered with better quality signals.  I wonder how the coverage of separate population centers be separate stations plays into advertising rates.  Obviously, it increases the advertising opportunities by three.  Just rambling incoherence here.  Do we have any advertising or radio folks (VOJ?) hanging around withnthe energy to post on this?

[sjusection105]

That radio locator site is interesting.  I did a quick comparison of the areas of coverage and I think WCCO has our three stations beat in total coverage square miles, but I bet the distribution of our three stations actually has more people covered with better quality signals.  I wonder how the coverage of separate population centers be separate stations plays into advertising rates.  Obviously, it increases the advertising opportunities by three.  Just rambling incoherence here.  Do we have any advertising or radio folks (VOJ?) hanging around withnthe energy to post on this?

I'm no expert but I will venture a guess that WCCO advert. rate,even for a specialty program like Tommie athletics, would be greater than each individual station in the Johnnie Radio Network. That being said, the Johnnie Network could have 3 local "lead sponsors", i.e. 1 in each market. There is no way a local business, car dealership, grocery store, etc... in central or southern MN buys an ad on WCCO for Tommie sports,but 3 different car dealers would purchase ads ( from 3 different regions) on Johnnie broadcasts. The local station pays a fee for the "content" i.e. the pre-game, the game itself and the post-game and the local radio station then has something to sell advertising around. Without the game to sell around, you have Saturday afternoon Polka Party. I'm betting the advertising rates for Polka Party are good for a local radio station, but not as good as the Johnnie broadcast. 

[sju56321]

I have always loved that argument that SJU is in the middle of nowhere, so there is nothing else to do on a Saturday than spend money attending a DIII game, rather than going to the zoo or the theater in the Big Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul. Just funny.
Winning draws crowds, except at Wrigley  , so when Bethel and UST win on a consistent basis-DIII semi-finals and championship, then perhaps a bigger attendance figure will be the result.
Oh, and I love the argument that our small crowd is more involved in the game than your large crowd-what a joke. Each crowd consists of knowledgeable fans and those, perhaps, just wanting to get outside on a nice day or know little about football.
In the end-just tell me-does the team win or lose-compete for a conference title each year, compete for a national title each year-that is what a high school kids wants to know.

[DoubleO]

I have always loved that argument that SJU is in the middle of nowhere, so there is nothing else to do on a Saturday than spend money attending a DIII game, rather than going to the zoo or the theater in the Big Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul. Just funny.
Winning draws crowds, except at Wrigley  , so when Bethel and UST win on a consistent basis-DIII semi-finals and championship, then perhaps a bigger attendance figure will be the result.
Oh, and I love the argument that our small crowd is more involved in the game than your large crowd-what a joke. Each crowd consists of knowledgeable fans and those, perhaps, just wanting to get outside on a nice day or know little about football.
In the end-just tell me-does the team win or lose-compete for a conference title each year, compete for a national title each year-that is what a high school kids wants to know.

Speaking of love, it brings a smile to my face every time a John feels it necessary to bring up the attendance debate. Guess you've got to find something to feel good about, huh? You're absolutely correct in pointing out that winning is what drives attendance numbers, but I would propose that it is more sustained winning than the the so to speak overnight success.

The tradition of Johnnie football is at the foundation of your attendance numbers, not recent success (obviously!).
I can't speak to BU's attendance trends, but I do know that UST's has been on the incline in the Caruso era. This trend will continue with their continued success on the field. 

All that being stated, congratulations on your attendance victory. Hold on to tight to that-never know how long you'll have it! As a UST backer (and I would suspect BU supporters to be of the same opinion), I'll take the on the field success and extended seasons seven days a week and twice on Sunday over your attendance titles! Again, enjoy them while they last.