FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[BDB]

Ron,

We have always had some voters who are willing to change No. 1 votes midseason even if a team keeps winning. I doubt those people will change their philosophies this year.

Pat - my question strikes week one.

Ron, 23 posts from basically midnight Saturday to 5:30pm Monday on the same thread is bound to get you dinged.

And it all started by quoting a Guru post from July 18th?

[sjusection105]

IMO Pat is the Tom Brokaw of D3.  But if I accidentally insult him in any way, I don't need to necessarily apologize.  I

Too late, you already insulted him with the Brokaw reference. Pat is a true journalist who calls it straight down the line. Even when being call out by the likes of TDT.... {veiled reference to a couple years back}

I can't wait until next week when the Top 25 is overanalyzed to the point where this week's breakdown actually seeming interesting..... {sarcasm}

[DuffMan]

Someone let me know when something interesting gets brought up...

[Mr.MIAC]

One, two, ten...to me the ranking doesn't really matter.  UST is continuing to gain national prominence, the football team is fun to watch, and everyone on campus is proud for the right reasons.  Can't really lose...

[wartknight]

Wow! These last few pages were exhausting!

[corn horn]

Wow! These last few pages were exhausting!

Imagine how much more interesting it will be next week, by which time all the ranked teams will have actually played a game.[/color]

[Robert Zimmerman]

Wow! These last few pages were exhausting!

10 minutes of my life I will never get back.

[sju56321]

Looking forward to seeing SJU in person this Saturday-that should clear up this ranking business.

[bennie]

Wow! These last few pages were exhausting!

And don't forget pointless!

[hazzben]

but with returning core that MU has and the tradtion/depth they have, any other team being ranked ahead of an unbeaten MU is just not right.

I'm totally with you on the depth issue, but they actually only return 5 starters. Granted, one of them is maybe the best QB in D3.

And I think we can all agree that there is definitely a little more intrigue in the top teams than we've seen in the last 8 years or so.

Mount replaces a legend with his son and has to replace/reload 19 starters from their team. UST returns a ton. Linfield looks tough. UWP brings back a lot and UWW wants to prove last year was a fluke. UMHB and Wesley are in the mix as well.

It doesn't appear to be a two horse race, which is great for D3. Especially since I think the level of play is on the rise from the top teams.

[AO]

A couple things I think are worth keeping in mind when discussing St. Thomas and Division II.

1. They just built a brand-new on-campus arena that is not really sized for Division II. There isn't a facility minimum standard for seating at the D-II level but regardless, that isn't in keeping with other D-II gyms/arenas.

2. Really have to keep hockey in mind. There is no Division II hockey and all of the D-II schools with hockey either play up a level (at significant expense) or sit in no-man's land in Division II hockey like a handful of schools in New England do, with no national championship to shoot for.

The hockey thing applies to a bunch of the WIAC schools as well. Plus that state's legislature would have to appropriate the funds and I don't think that's something they're all that keen on doing in this political climate.

For the $60 Million the new building cost they could have easily made a gym seat more than 5000, maybe they wouldn't get a new pool then, I don't know.  In any case, they could split games between the new Shoe/St. Thomas Academy Hockey rink and the Target Center/Xcel if something crazy happened and they got invited by the Missouri Valley or Big East.   I'm sure it doesn't make sense financially to try to consider making the jump to D-1 without great confidence they could get into a league with a good TV contract, but it sure would be fun to watch some other big teams come into town.

[Texas Ole]

When UND and USD jumped (5 years after NDSU and SDSU jumped) to D1 from D2 it was because they saw the writing on the wall (D2 football was plummeting in terms of relevance, competiveness and atmosphere). Joining the NSIC would do nothing to raise UST's profile athletically and would hurt it academically. Additionally, when the conference includes the likes of UM-Crookston and Southwest Minnesota State it's hard to justify to me why that would be better than playing SJU and Bethel. In fact, the NSIC often times play much smaller crowds than a good MIAC game.

Interesting about Rice. I went to a Rice/East Carolina game in Houston 2 years ago. 70,000 seat stadium, about 5,000 people in attendance. It just seemed awkward. Centenary dropped from D1 to D3 a few years back and it seemed like the right move at the time.

Rice is a unique animal.  Rice stayed due to baseball and the new NCAA rule that requires schools to play fully in one division.  There are a few exceptions such as Johns Hopkins with lacrosse.  People forget the old Southwest Conference where some of those stadiums were needed at even the smaller schools.  I remember going to a SMU game at a packed Texas Stadium (old Cowboys stadium).  As recently as the late 90s Rice had the largest football stadium in Texas.  It has served as a NFL stadium and other major events including a Super Bowl.  The rules for HS playoffs require games to be played at neutral sites when possible so these stadiums are used for those events along with regular season games where more than 30k are expected.  That being said the break up of the SWC really has hurt those programs.  Now SMU, Rice, and UH struggle to get fans to attend games.  I am shocked there were even 5k in the stands.  In HS I had season tickets for TCU games that ran me the same price as a single game ticket now.  I don't know the full story with Rice with regards to their stadium, but they are also using Reliant Stadium for certain games.

The University of Chicago also dropped from D1 to D3 though that could hardly be considered recent.  I also love the trivia question of what D3 school has a student that won the Heisman while playing there.  The answer is Jay Berwanger of Chicago.

A couple things I think are worth keeping in mind when discussing St. Thomas and Division II.

1. They just built a brand-new on-campus arena that is not really sized for Division II. There isn't a facility minimum standard for seating at the D-II level but regardless, that isn't in keeping with other D-II gyms/arenas.

2. Really have to keep hockey in mind. There is no Division II hockey and all of the D-II schools with hockey either play up a level (at significant expense) or sit in no-man's land in Division II hockey like a handful of schools in New England do, with no national championship to shoot for.

The hockey thing applies to a bunch of the WIAC schools as well. Plus that state's legislature would have to appropriate the funds and I don't think that's something they're all that keen on doing in this political climate.

For the $60 Million the new building cost they could have easily made a gym seat more than 5000, maybe they wouldn't get a new pool then, I don't know.  In any case, they could split games between the new Shoe/St. Thomas Academy Hockey rink and the Target Center/Xcel if something crazy happened and they got invited by the Missouri Valley or Big East.   I'm sure it doesn't make sense financially to try to consider making the jump to D-1 without great confidence they could get into a league with a good TV contract, but it sure would be fun to watch some other big teams come into town.

As we learned with the latest round of Division 1 realignment the Catholic 7 run the Big East, but I am not sure UST would want to join that conference without some major changes.

[OzJohnnie]

The nominees for top three marks and goals of the year.  Pretty spectacular.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXapmPH3a30&feature=c4-overview&list=UUxAeHdLDAatFV_vt95MSO-g

[ron doney]

2012 was last season which you, yourself, point out, MM. Posting awards earned last season is not "right out of the gates". Doney thought that the Johnnie website was mistakingly listing awards for this coming season under Fasching.  I didn't deny the fact of the link, I instead pointed out that he has no idea what year it is.

Having to explain the punch line always ruins the fun.

I suspect "right out of the gates" referred to the fact that it was one of the two links on the menu. But shouldn't it be? It would be if it were my site.

That's correct Pat, it is the second link in a list that includes other basic links such as schedule, stats, roster etc.  Oz, your interpretation wasn't my intention, but understand how you could read it that way. 

The post was an extension of a prior discussion on the lack of humility at UST and the inferred humility at SJU.  This was an example to counter that stereotype, or at least level the impressions.  UST and every other MIAC program I checked have the standard links such as schedule, roster, stats etc.  They do not link to Awards/Honors and don't prioritize them over the other basic info.  They use standard press releases that can be found in the news archive.  Mount and Linfield don't link to them either, Whitewater does as part of a larger set of info further down their list. 

I realize it is a nuanced example, but it does come from the program and not some hooligan at a game.  You can discount it as just posting more information, but the order of its placement and difference from its peer websites relevant.   I'll leave it to y'all to decide how much weight it carries in the debate over humility in the programs.

SJU has since removed this link.

[ron doney]

bleedpurple hit the right tone. He is one of the UWW posters I would try to slap down when they got a little full of themselves. Over the past few years, their success has been impressive, and they (IMHO) have a certain reserved boastful confidence that comes with prolonged success. They have earned the right to be somewhat arrogant and cocky, but it is now tempered withperspective. They faced adversity (a bit) last year, and are hopeful they can return to dominance. I hope the Tommie posters find that perspective.

That being said, I know it was the first game of the season, but in watching the first half of the SJU/UWRF game last night, I was stunned by the lack ofprecision, especially defensively by the Johnnies. Both teams seemed determined to screw up every chance they got. In the end, the Johnnies were able to put it together. Let's hope that gives them some confidence in the future. But, more importantly, let's hope they now know what they need to do better. Otherwise, it will be a long, painful season. They showed flashes of competence which they need to carry through the entire game.

One very positive note - the kicker was excellent. It could come down to him in close games this year.

The kicker was awarded the MIAC special teams player of the week for the game winning boot.  Rightfully so. 

I believe the kicking game was a concern of many going in to the season......but the kid looks good so far.

Johnson long game winner was from 40yrds. 
Graupner at UST hit from 41. 
Those were the two 40+ shots that I could find in the box scores.