FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OzJohnnie]

What's the feel from the non-SJU crowd on the Johnnie's recent string of title-contenders? Is it a result of the new coaching staff completely turning around the whole program and they're the #1 or #2 team in the conference every year, or did they just have a few absolute horses the last few years that are going to be hard to replace? It wasn't that long ago they finished 5th in my final MIAC ratings:

Now that SJU has recovered and is back in the 1 or 2 position the past few years, and likely to be #1 or #2 this year, I'd actually be more interested in hearing from the SJU crowd on what went wrong right at the end of the Gags era?  Did their recruiting (or lack of it) based on reputation just stop working with the current generation of athletes?  Was it purely a run of "bad luck" - which would seem unlikely, based on how long they were so good, to suddenly have a downturn, which was then corrected by a new coach.  Was UST temporarily snagging a number of guys who might have historically gone to SJU?

My thoughts are that everything gets a little tired eventually, and after 60 years the vitality finally waned on the Gagliardi system.  Fasching hasn't revolutionised the Gag's system (as far as I'm aware) just making a few tweaks here and there, but he has injected a new vitality in the works that helps drive the energy and passion needed to run at the top.

It's amazing that Gagliardi was able to maintain an elite passion in those around him for all but maybe the last four years at the helm of SJU.  He was a candle that burned very bright for a very long time.

[DuffMan]

My thought is that John was the draw for a lot of recruits.  He's an extremely engaging man that has a knack for making a person feel important.  I remember sitting in his office for hours on a recruiting visit in the spring of 1999 along with two of my high school teammates.  When we left campus, we were all set on being Johnnies (and we all played 4 years for John).  I would think that in his 80s, he lost some of the energy that he had for so long.  Couple that with the new "Twitter generation," and it's not far-fetched to thing that recruiting started to take a hit.

As mentioned, Gary has made some tweaks to the program while staying true to John's philosophies, and Dumo and staff have really started to hit their stride in the recruiting game.

[Boys of Fall]

My thought is that John was the draw for a lot of recruits.  He's an extremely engaging man that has a knack for making a person feel important.  I remember sitting in his office for hours on a recruiting visit in the spring of 1999 along with two of my high school teammates.  When we left campus, we were all set on being Johnnies (and we all played 4 years for John).  I would think that in his 80s, he lost some of the energy that he had for so long.  Couple that with the new "Twitter generation," and it's not far-fetched to thing that recruiting started to take a hit.

As mentioned, Gary has made some tweaks to the program while staying true to John's philosophies, and Dumo and staff have really started to hit their stride in the recruiting game.

Although, at the end Gagliardi was still able to pull in Sura, Bungum, and other high level players that were influential in the early success of the new staff.  Some of the reason for those sub-par records might have been the day to day energy brought to the field.  John wasn't really running practices during that time, but he was still in charge.  If there isn't the same urgency and accountability things might have slipped.  The entire staff seems to have more energy/enthusiasm now.  (Note: This is in no way intended to be a knock on John, his contributions not only to Johnnie football, football in general, and personal lives of many young men is more than impressive).

[bman]

My thought is that John was the draw for a lot of recruits.  He's an extremely engaging man that has a knack for making a person feel important.  I remember sitting in his office for hours on a recruiting visit in the spring of 1999 along with two of my high school teammates.  When we left campus, we were all set on being Johnnies (and we all played 4 years for John).  I would think that in his 80s, he lost some of the energy that he had for so long.  Couple that with the new "Twitter generation," and it's not far-fetched to thing that recruiting started to take a hit.

As mentioned, Gary has made some tweaks to the program while staying true to John's philosophies, and Dumo and staff have really started to hit their stride in the recruiting game.

And also keep in mind, many recruits probably were thinking that "he's probably going to retire soon, and then who will be my coach?"...That uncertainty plays in many recruits mind across all levels and sports where they may want to go to a particular institution/program, but real or perceived instability keeps them from committing...

[GoldandBlueBU]

Interesting feedback.  That was more or less my outsider take on it - that there wasn't something dramatically wrong, but that there was a shift that took place in high school kids that that he (Gags) wasn't willing to submit to, and figured that the old methods of recruiting would still work.

I graduated from HS in 2004, and I feel like it was in the 2-3 years right after that when social media / easily creatable and sharable through digital media highlight tapes / kids wanting to be told how special they are and how much colleges wanted them really shifted.  Couple that shift with Coach Caruso being willing to cater to it probably snagged a good number of players who would have historically gone to SJU.

The old slow dial up internet (a few friends had cable right away, but mostly not) probably prevented that shift for a long time!

Less than a week until the days start getting shorter...

[carletonknights]

Listened to the new episode of ATN, just wanted to say congratulations to Keith on getting married!

Also, I'm a little foggy on this maybe someone can shed some light: what are the perks of a student deciding to go to a private military college like Norwich or The Citadel?  If they're private does that mean kids are essentially paying to join the armed services (I know that some of those students are ordinary civilians)?  Why not go to one of the services academies?

[jknezek]

Listened to the new episode of ATN, just wanted to say congratulations to Keith on getting married!

Also, I'm a little foggy on this maybe someone can shed some light: what are the perks of a student deciding to go to a private military college like Norwich or The Citadel?  If they're private does that mean kids are essentially paying to join the armed services (I know that some of those students are ordinary civilians)?  Why not go to one of the services academies?

You can get commissioned as a reserve officer, though it is not required. I know VMI and Citadel are tied closely to the VA and SC National Guard. But you do pay to attend though costs are more on par with state schools than private schools. One major difference is that you are not required to do military service after graduation.

I think many who attend could not go to the 3 national service academies. As W&L is literally attached by the campus to VMI I was familiar and friendly with more than a few Keydets both in school and after in my first job. They were not of the same academic caliber as the few kids from my h.s. that applied to the service academies, which is more a comment on those at the service academies than a knock on those at VMI. VMI and Citadel and the like are good schools, but West Point, the Naval Academy, and Air Force Academy are on a different level. Those young men and women are truly elite scholars with extra curriculars that are generally top notch as well. You need to get a recommendation from a Congressman to apply, and each Congressman only gets 2 recs a year (though I think there are a few more ways to gain application permission).

Coast Guard has the same requirements as the other 3 service academies, but as a lesser name it is easier to get in to. The requirements are still stringent, the campus is still beautiful and I thought about it way back in my junior year of h.s., but at the time they offered such a limited set of degrees I ended up not being interested.

[OzJohnnie]

Listened to the new episode of ATN, just wanted to say congratulations to Keith on getting married!

Also, I'm a little foggy on this maybe someone can shed some light: what are the perks of a student deciding to go to a private military college like Norwich or The Citadel?  If they're private does that mean kids are essentially paying to join the armed services (I know that some of those students are ordinary civilians)?  Why not go to one of the services academies?

You can get commissioned as a reserve officer, though it is not required. I know VMI and Citadel are tied closely to the VA and SC National Guard. But you do pay to attend though costs are more on par with state schools than private schools. One major difference is that you are not required to do military service after graduation.

I think many who attend could not go to the 3 national service academies. As W&L is literally attached by the campus to VMI I was familiar and friendly with more than a few Keydets both in school and after in my first job. They were not of the same academic caliber as the few kids from my h.s. that applied to the service academies, which is more a comment on those at the service academies than a knock on those at VMI. VMI and Citadel and the like are good schools, but West Point, the Naval Academy, and Air Force Academy are on a different level. Those young men and women are truly elite scholars with extra curriculars that are generally top notch as well. You need to get a recommendation from a Congressman to apply, and each Congressman only gets 2 recs a year (though I think there are a few more ways to gain application permission).

Coast Guard has the same requirements as the other 3 service academies, but as a lesser name it is easier to get in to. The requirements are still stringent, the campus is still beautiful and I thought about it way back in my junior year of h.s., but at the time they offered such a limited set of degrees I ended up not being interested.

I imagine the private military schools are also quite well networked.  There is a strong tradition of the families and social networks that attend them, no?  Quite a strong relationship between them and the schools that feed into them?

[jknezek]

I imagine the private military schools are also quite well networked.  There is a strong tradition of the families and social networks that attend them, no?  Quite a strong relationship between them and the schools that feed into them?

I don't really know. I don't think they are tied as closely to specific schools anymore as Catholic colleges and Catholic high schools. There are so few academic military high schools left in this country as most military high schools are more of a disciplinary thing than an academic in my experience. There used to be an Annapolis feeder school not far from where I grew up, but that one closed more than a decade ago. Farragut Academy maybe? I knew one kid from my h.s. who went there for a fifth year of h.s. to improve his odds of going to Annapolis. I remember hearing it paid off for him. I would guess that many of the state military colleges have family traditions at the least for sure.

[meadowdale]

How does the rest of the MIAC stack up this year. Have heard very little about St Olaf,Carleton,and Augsberg?

[OldAuggie]

Augsburg will be improved over last year IMO. The entire O-line was young so it was a struggle all year, each game. The guys are clearly big enough, they just had very little experience in the MIAC so I am guessing we will see improvement in the running game and protecting the QB. Hopefully the QB spot has been filled which was also a Merry Go Round last year with new prospects and injuries. I think we went through 4 QB's last year. Rumors of skill players transferring in sound good and with some luck we can get back on track for a good season.

I count about 18 starters returning but I could be off by one or two.

The defense had a very good front seven last year and I think almost all of those guys return with Khoa Ngyuen the only one I can think of not returning due to graduation. Last year I heard Fasching say on line somewhere that the Augsburg front seven were as good as any in the MIAC, and I liked them too, but for sure we had very little depth at those positions. That depth issue was also a huge problem to me as the offense had too many 3 and outs and those front seven guys had to be tired and/or injured all year. 

This is the cycle of teams like AUG trying to compete in the MIAC. We build up to a senior heavy team and get to 5-5, 6-4 or maybe 7-3, beat Bethel and SJU two years in a row (BU 2014,2015 - SJU 2011,2012) and then it is time to rebuild it all over again which is what happened last year.  Not too surprising that 2011-2015 almost fits perfectly the Ayrton Scott/Joey Sonnenfeld reign of terror upon the MIAC but we really had several other talented players in that time and on both sides of the ball. 

[sjusection105]

How does the rest of the MIAC stack up this year. Have heard very little about St Olaf,Carleton,and Augsberg?

It will be interesting to see if there is any improvement from the Oles. Wholesale changes in a coaching staff can have mixed results,but they had to do something....

[HansenRatings]

How does the rest of the MIAC stack up this year. Have heard very little about St Olaf,Carleton,and Augsberg?

It will be interesting to see if there is any improvement from the Oles. Wholesale changes in a coaching staff can have mixed results,but they had to do something....

I actually wrote about coaching changes over the weekend. On average teams perform right at expectation in a new staff's first season, and they perform about a field goal per game better in year two. And an outside hire performs about a touchdown better per game in year two than a coach promoted from within the staff. In year two, a new staff is about as likely to improve by 10.0 points per game as they are to get any worse at all. Far from guaranteed though.
http://loganahansen21.wixsite.com/hansen-ratings/single-post/2017/06/16/Coaching-Changes-Talent-Doesnt

[jamtod]

How does the rest of the MIAC stack up this year. Have heard very little about St Olaf,Carleton,and Augsberg?

It will be interesting to see if there is any improvement from the Oles. Wholesale changes in a coaching staff can have mixed results,but they had to do something....

I actually wrote about coaching changes over the weekend. On average teams perform right at expectation in a new staff's first season, and they perform about a field goal per game better in year two. And an outside hire performs about a touchdown better per game in year two than a coach promoted from within the staff. In year two, a new staff is about as likely to improve by 10.0 points per game as they are to get any worse at all. Far from guaranteed though.
http://loganahansen21.wixsite.com/hansen-ratings/single-post/2017/06/16/Coaching-Changes-Talent-Doesnt

I don't recall seeing this in your data, but any difference between coaches who are fired (rare in D3, I know) or those who resign/retire (more likely to do so coming into a time when the team is going to struggle anyway, perhaps).

[HansenRatings]

I don't recall seeing this in your data, but any difference between coaches who are fired (rare in D3, I know) or those who resign/retire (more likely to do so coming into a time when the team is going to struggle anyway, perhaps).

That would have been a good one to look at, but I didn't note whether a fired coach was being replaced or not when I was looking through the coaching carousel. I plan on looking into this further, mostly because I can't believe that the large difference between OC's & DC's would persist throughout their careers, so maybe I'll look into that, too.