FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[GoldandBlueBU]

Yowzers.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-football-hazing-met-20170918-story.html

Wow.   

Wonder if any of that backlash will flow up to the coaching staff, given that it isn't the first time that the program has drawn negative attention for doing stupid things.

[miac952]

Yowzers.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-football-hazing-met-20170918-story.html

Wow.   

Wonder if any of that backlash will flow up to the coaching staff, given that it isn't the first time that the program has drawn negative attention for doing stupid things.

This story is wowzer. There are some pretty big names involved too. A D3 preseason All American and a pretty famous football name in Chris Spielman's son.

I don't get how charges are being brought forward 18+ months after the fact. The recent gopher football investigation took 4 months and that felt long. I also don't get how it looks like the school's punishment was limited to some off the field community service. IF, even half the stuff said in the State Attorney's charges is true, how are they not removed from the school. I'm wondering if we see civil court filings by the alleged victim next since the school's response doesn't seem to measure the charges and accusations. This came a year after the KKK incident the football team had as well.

[jamtod]

So if I'm in the area of Target Field on Saturday, where can a guy find a tailgate welcoming to someone wearing neither red nor purple?

I'm not sure there will be much traditional tailgating, but I'll be going with a group of folks (sadly, most are non-Tommies but they respect the purple power) and meeting up with some others and you'd be welcome to join us. Probably at Cowboy Jack's or Kieran's. DM on Twitter for details.
The universities have their own gathering on the plaza, but I presume those won't involve any alcoholic beverages and the SJU A-Z specifically prohibits flasks, which is the biggest downside of not being played on campus imo.

[USTBench]

Yowzers.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-wheaton-college-football-hazing-met-20170918-story.html

Wow.   

Wonder if any of that backlash will flow up to the coaching staff, given that it isn't the first time that the program has drawn negative attention for doing stupid things.

This story is wowzer. There are some pretty big names involved too. A D3 preseason All American and a pretty famous football name in Chris Spielman's son.

I don't get how charges are being brought forward 18+ months after the fact. The recent gopher football investigation took 4 months and that felt long. I also don't get how it looks like the school's punishment was limited to some off the field community service. IF, even half the stuff said in the State Attorney's charges is true, how are they not removed from the school. I'm wondering if we see civil court filings by the alleged victim next since the school's response doesn't seem to measure the charges and accusations. This came a year after the KKK incident the football team had as well.

Hopefully, due to the horrific stuff that's come to light in the last five years, we start to rewrite the book on institutional mishandling of these types of events. Obviously, Penn State is the most egregious of these events. But Baylor, Notre Dame and even the U of M, have had coaches, ADs, university presidents, etc., making the types of decisions that they have no business being involved in. Call. The. Police.

The PR blow on the front end, is typically way more manageable when you do the right thing, than what it ends up being after you try, and inevitably fail, to sweep assault, rape, child molestation, whatever, under-the-rug. Of course, this is coming from a down-in-the-trenches criminal defense attorney who has seen it all, which could be the problem. I think having a former prosecutor, cop, or criminal defense attorney on retainer or part of the the athletic administration, to advise in these types of situations is probably not a bad idea. They've been down in the gutter enough and have been exposed to things that your typical person who's made a career in academia knows nothing about.

It's pretty clear what to do from my vantage part, maybe not from someone in that position. Remove them from the team, report it to the police, THEN go into spin mode.

Kidnapping, beating, and dumping the body of a teenager in 45 degree weather with no clothes on miles from campus is every bit a felony. And if that same group of so-called men did it to a gal on the basketball team or a cheerleader, I doubt there would've been a second of hesitation what to do. An essay? On what? Why felony kidnapping and assault is bad? Community service?

Time to blow the whole thing up and start over.

[TheVoiceofReason]

As always, let's not find people guilty because of what we read in the Paper about an incident that took place 16 months ago. The clue here may very well be that there has been no action taken for 16 months - as in, no one is believing the accused because he may be less than trustworthy. If a school like Wheaton doesn't take significant action, that makes me believe that there is more to the story.

[AO]

MIAC PICK-EMS
WEEK 3 STANDINGS


Week 4 Sep. 23

Rivalry: 4pts
#6 St. John's (+3.5) vs. #10 St. Thomas @ Target Field "The Holy Grail"

Conference: 3pts

St. Olaf (+21.5) @ Bethel
Hamline (+9.5) @ Gustavus
Augsburg @ Carleton (+21.5)

National: 1pt

Centre @ Berry (EVEN)

[57Johnnie]

Got my annual flu shot today. The nurse told me it was so close to the Tommie game that I needed a distemper booster. 

[miac952]

As always, let's not find people guilty because of what we read in the Paper about an incident that took place 16 months ago. The clue here may very well be that there has been no action taken for 16 months - as in, no one is believing the accused because he may be less than trustworthy. If a school like Wheaton doesn't take significant action, that makes me believe that there is more to the story.

The school found some wrongdoing. Sources within the school are being quoted stating the punishment for the athletes was 50 hours of community service and an essay.

Replace Wheaton with Baylor or Penn State in your last sentence. One school has a very strict religious and morality clause for its students, the other was known for doing things the right way in its football program. Respected institutions time and again fail in this regard. Others are learning and managing it better. Take Michigan State or the U of M last year. Both suspended players during the investigation. In MN case some were found to have little to no involvement and were reinstated, while others were dismissed from the program and school. Michigan State fired a coach and dismissed four suspended football players the second charges were filed.

I don't think I have read anyone presuming guilt at this point, BUT, there is a HUGE discrepancy between the school's findings and punishment and the charges presented by the DA.

[USTBench]

I've never been part of a program that hazed freshmen. Freshmen had a hard enough time as it is, but I think it was generally accepted that it was enough to go through two-a-days, come have some beers with us, if you want. If you passed out in the middle of the party, you may have received the Sharpie treatment, but that applied to everyone, not just freshmen.

If you didn't want to drink, fine. If you didn't want to leave your dorm room, fine. No one had to carry pads, or clean up after an upperclassman. No one was forced to drink beer, or duct taped to a goal post. It's really foreign to me why that is part of some programs.

Freshmen are homesick, naive, and don't know the offense or defense, life is plenty hard. If you want them to stick around and make the team better, probably best not to torture them, especially when everyone else is relaxing in the quad with good looking girls and they have to go practice a sport they are receiving nothing for participating in.

[57Johnnie]

I'm so old we had to wear green beanies until Homecoming. Great experience and almost all upperclassmen treated us very well. They helped make the transition easy.

[AO]

It would really piss off the Twins, too. The last thing they want is for a football game to be played in the wet on their field.

Wasn't this their idea? Needed to generate revenue because the 9 they were putting out on the field couldn't draw?

It's about showcasing the venue for future similar games, probably with our regional FCS power(s). That doesn't mean they wanted a football game played in wet conditions, though.

Let's get AO in on this, he has the NDSU & Wyoming connections.....

You can add Indiana State to that list.

I agree that the Twins seemed like the aggressor in the NDSU game.  St. Peter started talking with the NDSU AD and Coach at the "NDSU night" Twins game.  They offered to pay the $185K guarantee for Butler and give the Bison up to $600K based on attendance.

Also: a good article on how the Target Field grass might hold up for football.
https://www.bisonmediazone.com/the-target-field-surface-for-football-a-qa-with-an-expert/

[TheVoiceofReason]

As always, let's not find people guilty because of what we read in the Paper about an incident that took place 16 months ago. The clue here may very well be that there has been no action taken for 16 months - as in, no one is believing the accused because he may be less than trustworthy. If a school like Wheaton doesn't take significant action, that makes me believe that there is more to the story.

The school found some wrongdoing. Sources within the school are being quoted stating the punishment for the athletes was 50 hours of community service and an essay.

Replace Wheaton with Baylor or Penn State in your last sentence. One school has a very strict religious and morality clause for its students, the other was known for doing things the right way in its football program. Respected institutions time and again fail in this regard. Others are learning and managing it better. Take Michigan State or the U of M last year. Both suspended players during the investigation. In MN case some were found to have little to no involvement and were reinstated, while others were dismissed from the program and school. Michigan State fired a coach and dismissed four suspended football players the second charges were filed.

I don't think I have read anyone presuming guilt at this point, BUT, there is a HUGE discrepancy between the school's findings and punishment and the charges presented by the DA.

First off, I promise I'm not trying to be argumentative and completely respect your opinion - I hope I'm not coming off rude. However, I'm confident we will be hearing soon that Wheaton's situation has been largely fabricated. I have heard this from someone closer to the program than I. Just hold tight, and please know if I'm dead wrong I will apologize as publicly as I'm stating this.

On a completely different note, Wheaten beat Carthage 37-14 after Carthage beat Bethel 31-0. I believe Wheaten made it to the NCAA Semis last year and is obviously tough this year - if they get the hammer dropped on them, it will be unfortunate timing as this may be their best team ever.

[miac952]

As always, let's not find people guilty because of what we read in the Paper about an incident that took place 16 months ago. The clue here may very well be that there has been no action taken for 16 months - as in, no one is believing the accused because he may be less than trustworthy. If a school like Wheaton doesn't take significant action, that makes me believe that there is more to the story.

The school found some wrongdoing. Sources within the school are being quoted stating the punishment for the athletes was 50 hours of community service and an essay.

Replace Wheaton with Baylor or Penn State in your last sentence. One school has a very strict religious and morality clause for its students, the other was known for doing things the right way in its football program. Respected institutions time and again fail in this regard. Others are learning and managing it better. Take Michigan State or the U of M last year. Both suspended players during the investigation. In MN case some were found to have little to no involvement and were reinstated, while others were dismissed from the program and school. Michigan State fired a coach and dismissed four suspended football players the second charges were filed.

I don't think I have read anyone presuming guilt at this point, BUT, there is a HUGE discrepancy between the school's findings and punishment and the charges presented by the DA.

First off, I promise I'm not trying to be argumentative and completely respect your opinion - I hope I'm not coming off rude. However, I'm confident we will be hearing soon that Wheaton's situation has been largely fabricated. I have heard this from someone closer to the program than I. Just hold tight, and please know if I'm dead wrong I will apologize as publicly as I'm stating this.

On a completely different note, Wheaten beat Carthage 37-14 after Carthage beat Bethel 31-0. I believe Wheaten made it to the NCAA Semis last year and is obviously tough this year - if they get the hammer dropped on them, it will be unfortunate timing as this may be their best team ever.

No worries. Not taken that way at all. I would assume that with the examination at the hospital and a "2nd potential hazing victim" as noted in the story there will either be supporting physical evidence and corroborating stories or it will fall apart. One way or the other someone ends up with egg on their face. Could be the DA, could be school administration and coaching staff.

[miac952]

Fun little story from Frank on the starting QB's.

http://kstp.com/sports/st-johns-quarterback-jackson-erdmann-st-thomas-quarterback-jaques-perra-face-off-johnnies-tommies-target-field/4606084/?cat=12196

As we inch closer to gameday the rain forecast is becoming a more likely scenario. I can't think of the last Tommie - Johnnie game that had a heavy rain shower.

[USTBench]

As always, let's not find people guilty because of what we read in the Paper about an incident that took place 16 months ago. The clue here may very well be that there has been no action taken for 16 months - as in, no one is believing the accused because he may be less than trustworthy. If a school like Wheaton doesn't take significant action, that makes me believe that there is more to the story.

The school found some wrongdoing. Sources within the school are being quoted stating the punishment for the athletes was 50 hours of community service and an essay.

Replace Wheaton with Baylor or Penn State in your last sentence. One school has a very strict religious and morality clause for its students, the other was known for doing things the right way in its football program. Respected institutions time and again fail in this regard. Others are learning and managing it better. Take Michigan State or the U of M last year. Both suspended players during the investigation. In MN case some were found to have little to no involvement and were reinstated, while others were dismissed from the program and school. Michigan State fired a coach and dismissed four suspended football players the second charges were filed.

I don't think I have read anyone presuming guilt at this point, BUT, there is a HUGE discrepancy between the school's findings and punishment and the charges presented by the DA.

First off, I promise I'm not trying to be argumentative and completely respect your opinion - I hope I'm not coming off rude. However, I'm confident we will be hearing soon that Wheaton's situation has been largely fabricated. I have heard this from someone closer to the program than I. Just hold tight, and please know if I'm dead wrong I will apologize as publicly as I'm stating this.

On a completely different note, Wheaten beat Carthage 37-14 after Carthage beat Bethel 31-0. I believe Wheaten made it to the NCAA Semis last year and is obviously tough this year - if they get the hammer dropped on them, it will be unfortunate timing as this may be their best team ever.

Except the DA certainly feels it has enough probable cause to indict. So, what role are you talking about? The role where they were complicit in keeping these guys on the team after word came out that they allegedly had kidnapped, beat, sodomized and dumped multiple kids in the cold miles from campus? They are afforded the right to due process in the court system, not the athletic department.

"The conduct we discovered as a result of our investigation into this incident was entirely unacceptable and inconsistent with the values we share as human beings and as members of an academic community that espouses to live according to our Community Covenant," campus spokeswoman LaTonya Taylor said in a statement. "We are profoundly saddened that any member of our community could be mistreated in any way."

There you have it "VoiceofReason." They conducted their own investigation and found the incident "entirely unacceptable." The absurdity from the Wheaton standpoint, is that the punishment they deemed warranted was an essay and some community service, for kids who allegedly beat, kidnapped, hurled racial slurs at, and attempted to sodomize a 19 year old who just wanted to be part of a football team. Just a taaaaad underwhelming in terms of a response from Wheaton.

The only right answer here is to remove them from the team and school until the requisite facts can be gathered. If they're names are cleared bring them back. If not, wish them luck...in prison.

97% of the time someone is charged with a crime they plead guilty. I am well aware frequently this is because they get offered a lesser sentence and the risk of trial is too great, but I'm having a real hard time imagining why a kid would make this up. Especially given the number of witnesses he is able to offer up. If the DA wasn't supremely confident in its position, it wouldn't be bringing charges, even 18 months after the incident supposedly happened.

Wheaton screwed this up royally.