FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[TheVoiceofReason]

As always, let's not find people guilty because of what we read in the Paper about an incident that took place 16 months ago. The clue here may very well be that there has been no action taken for 16 months - as in, no one is believing the accused because he may be less than trustworthy. If a school like Wheaton doesn't take significant action, that makes me believe that there is more to the story.

The school found some wrongdoing. Sources within the school are being quoted stating the punishment for the athletes was 50 hours of community service and an essay.

Replace Wheaton with Baylor or Penn State in your last sentence. One school has a very strict religious and morality clause for its students, the other was known for doing things the right way in its football program. Respected institutions time and again fail in this regard. Others are learning and managing it better. Take Michigan State or the U of M last year. Both suspended players during the investigation. In MN case some were found to have little to no involvement and were reinstated, while others were dismissed from the program and school. Michigan State fired a coach and dismissed four suspended football players the second charges were filed.

I don't think I have read anyone presuming guilt at this point, BUT, there is a HUGE discrepancy between the school's findings and punishment and the charges presented by the DA.

First off, I promise I'm not trying to be argumentative and completely respect your opinion - I hope I'm not coming off rude. However, I'm confident we will be hearing soon that Wheaton's situation has been largely fabricated. I have heard this from someone closer to the program than I. Just hold tight, and please know if I'm dead wrong I will apologize as publicly as I'm stating this.

On a completely different note, Wheaten beat Carthage 37-14 after Carthage beat Bethel 31-0. I believe Wheaten made it to the NCAA Semis last year and is obviously tough this year - if they get the hammer dropped on them, it will be unfortunate timing as this may be their best team ever.

Except the DA certainly feels it has enough probable cause to indict. So, what role are you talking about? The role where they were complicit in keeping these guys on the team after word came out that they allegedly had kidnapped, beat, sodomized and dumped multiple kids in the cold miles from campus? They are afforded the right to due process in the court system, not the athletic department.

"The conduct we discovered as a result of our investigation into this incident was entirely unacceptable and inconsistent with the values we share as human beings and as members of an academic community that espouses to live according to our Community Covenant," campus spokeswoman LaTonya Taylor said in a statement. "We are profoundly saddened that any member of our community could be mistreated in any way."

There you have it "VoiceofReason." They conducted their own investigation and found the incident "entirely unacceptable." The absurdity from the Wheaton standpoint, is that the punishment they deemed warranted was an essay and some community service, for kids who allegedly beat, kidnapped, hurled racial slurs at, and attempted to sodomize a 19 year old who just wanted to be part of a football team. Just a taaaaad underwhelming in terms of a response from Wheaton.

The only right answer here is to remove them from the team and school until the requisite facts can be gathered. If they're names are cleared bring them back. If not, wish them luck...in prison.

97% of the time someone is charged with a crime they plead guilty. I am well aware frequently this is because they get offered a lesser sentence and the risk of trial is too great, but I'm having a real hard time imagining why a kid would make this up. Especially given the number of witnesses he is able to offer up. If the DA wasn't supremely confident in its position, it wouldn't be bringing charges, even 18 months after the incident supposedly happened.

Wheaton screwed this up royally.

Once again, if this is even halfway true - its dead wrong and please don't read me as making excuses for that type of behavior. The days of hazing should be completely over!

I remember assuming that the Duke Lacrosse Boys were guilty as could be, and I didn't know them from anyone. It has caused me to slow down on these types of cases. I highly doubt these guys would have gotten off this lightly if much of this truly happened. If I end up on the wrong side, I will feel awful - but I'm hearing its quite possibly not nearly as sinister as its being made out to be.

USTBench, it is not my goal to get you upset - just sharing what I've been told.

[scottyeagle93]

So if I'm in the area of Target Field on Saturday, where can a guy find a tailgate welcoming to someone wearing neither red nor purple?

At Macalester. 

+K

Your odds of finding four hippies playing hackysack are much higher than a finding a tailgate at Macalester.

Your comment is so ignorant it's amazing. 

If anything, they'd be throwing frisbee or slacklining 

[57Johnnie]

This is Johnnie Tommie week!
Since most of you know, I haven't read a post over 5 lines long for several years.
Have I missed anything important recently?

[jamtod]

This is Johnnie Tommie week!
Since most of you know, I haven't read a post over 5 lines long for several years.
Have I missed anything important recently?

I'm just impressed you can read at all.

[badgerwarhawk]

Admittedly my memory fails me at times.  But I don't recall Duke officials having conducted their own investigation into the alleged incidents prior to criminal charges being brought and what I've been able to find on the subject doesn't indicate it.  My recollection is once the charges were brought the university almost immediately suspended the program and a short time later fired the coach.  The Wheaton internal investigation and their third party investigation have already indicated something "entirely unacceptable" did in fact happen.  That would seem a significant difference between the two incidents.  I've always pretty much believed that where there is smoke there was a fire and there is an awful lot of smoke here. 

But, as I said, my memory fails me at times.  Being a believer in the constitution I'm willing to let this run it's course before forming any hard and fast opinions. 

[OzJohnnie]

@USTBench

I dug you up a new avatar.  No charge.  You can thank me later.

[57Johnnie]

This is Johnnie Tommie week!
Since most of you know, I haven't read a post over 5 lines long for several years.
Have I missed anything important recently?

I'm just impressed you can read at all.

Yup, at least printing writing and a little ciphering too.
I just never got the hang of bloviating. 

[OzJohnnie]

A Tommie football recruit showed up for practice with his cleats on the wrong feet. Caruso said, "Son, your shoes are on the wrong feet." The player looked up at St Glenn with a raised brow and said, "Don't kid me coach, I know they're my feet."

[jamtod]

This is Johnnie Tommie week!
Since most of you know, I haven't read a post over 5 lines long for several years.
Have I missed anything important recently?

I'm just impressed you can read at all.

Yup, at least printing writing and a little ciphering too.
I just never got the hang of bloviating. 

It's for the best. If you really wanted to learn, I'm sure there are plenty of Johnnies around her (or the Rev) that could teach you.

[SJUrube]

Week 4 Sep. 23

Rivalry: 4pts
#6 St. John's (+3.5) vs. #10 St. Thomas @ Target Field "The Holy Grail"

AO...you should thrown in this tie-breaker/bonus point - will the start time be moved? If the forecast calls for a pocket of nice(er) weather later in the day, allowing the field to drain and not take as much abuse, would the Twins have the power to push it back? MN United soccer hosted a friendly at Target Field last season and there was a chance the game was going to be cancelled because of weather - specifically what those conditions would do to the field.

This was posted in the game's A-Z...

R
Rain Delay
The tradition in football is that games will be played rain or shine. However, if there is thunder,
lightning or other dangerous weather, the game may be postponed in accordance with MIAC and
NCAA rules. Fans will be updated on the weather and emergency actions by the public address system
and scoreboard.

Does that provide enough of an out to move the start time?

[OzJohnnie]

Johnnie/Tommie week has been a little low energy these last couple days.  Perhaps it's the weather.  Perhaps it's the distracting Wheaton bombshell.  Perhaps it's because ChicagoTommie is missing, likely hungover in a south central speakeasy.  Perhaps it's because the game is pretty important and no one wants to get too cocky.  Perhaps it's just because Tommies suck.  Regardless of the reasons, here's why the Johnnies will come away victorious:

* Discipline.  Johnnies have it; Tommies don't.  I anticipate four Johnnie first downs given up by personal fouls or jumps on defense in short yardage situations.  Thanks, #91, I knew we could count on you.

* Fear.  The poor Tommies are a little off this year.  UWEC played them tough the first half.  Stout cleaned them up.  So poor Carleton was getting passed against clear through the third quarter and even had to defend a pass in the fourth.  Unlike other Johnnies, I don't believe Caruso was passing against Carleton because he's classless.  I think he did it because his team needs the practice.  They need the film of things going right.  You have to admit, until they played the underpowered Knights there wasn't much going right for the Tommies.  I can smell the sweaty fear clear across the Pacific.

* Defense.  You can't win if you can't score enough points.  Stout easily had the Tommie's number.  And they sent out play notes.  Against the faster, more disciplined Johnnie defense it will be even more hopeless.

* Pressure.  Poor Perra.  He's supposed to be the DI shizzle but Erdmann is quietly running the roost in DIII.  Erdmann's passing effeciency.  Clarks speed.  It will all add up on the Tommie QB and he'll crumble.  I feel sorry for him.  Not only did he make the poor decision to head to Summit Ave, but now he has to deal with this.  What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

* Variety.  The Johnnie offense has it in spades.  We're running for 333 yards a game.  That's a lot of yards!  Why so many?  Because the passing offense is too good!  The team passing effeciency is 214!  They throw it so well that they have to run.  And boy can they run.  It all adds up to the highest scoring, highest octane offense in the nation.  On the positive side, St Glenn will have plenty of film to plan new defensive schemes with...

So, Tommies, good luck.  You'll need lots of it.

TOMMIES SUCK!

[Mr.MIAC]

I'm trying not to get banned or overly offend Nellie Oleson. That being said, whenever I think of the Johnnies one phrase comes to mind: "That's vagtastic." Maybe it's just me...but probably not.

[Gregory Sager]

As always, let's not find people guilty because of what we read in the Paper about an incident that took place 16 months ago. The clue here may very well be that there has been no action taken for 16 months - as in, no one is believing the accused because he may be less than trustworthy. If a school like Wheaton doesn't take significant action, that makes me believe that there is more to the story.

The school found some wrongdoing. Sources within the school are being quoted stating the punishment for the athletes was 50 hours of community service and an essay.

Replace Wheaton with Baylor or Penn State in your last sentence. One school has a very strict religious and morality clause for its students, the other was known for doing things the right way in its football program. Respected institutions time and again fail in this regard. Others are learning and managing it better. Take Michigan State or the U of M last year. Both suspended players during the investigation. In MN case some were found to have little to no involvement and were reinstated, while others were dismissed from the program and school. Michigan State fired a coach and dismissed four suspended football players the second charges were filed.

I don't think I have read anyone presuming guilt at this point, BUT, there is a HUGE discrepancy between the school's findings and punishment and the charges presented by the DA.

First off, I promise I'm not trying to be argumentative and completely respect your opinion - I hope I'm not coming off rude. However, I'm confident we will be hearing soon that Wheaton's situation has been largely fabricated. I have heard this from someone closer to the program than I. Just hold tight, and please know if I'm dead wrong I will apologize as publicly as I'm stating this.

On a completely different note, Wheaten beat Carthage 37-14 after Carthage beat Bethel 31-0. I believe Wheaten made it to the NCAA Semis last year and is obviously tough this year - if they get the hammer dropped on them, it will be unfortunate timing as this may be their best team ever.

Except the DA certainly feels it has enough probable cause to indict. So, what role are you talking about? The role where they were complicit in keeping these guys on the team after word came out that they allegedly had kidnapped, beat, sodomized and dumped multiple kids in the cold miles from campus? They are afforded the right to due process in the court system, not the athletic department.

"The conduct we discovered as a result of our investigation into this incident was entirely unacceptable and inconsistent with the values we share as human beings and as members of an academic community that espouses to live according to our Community Covenant," campus spokeswoman LaTonya Taylor said in a statement. "We are profoundly saddened that any member of our community could be mistreated in any way."

There you have it "VoiceofReason." They conducted their own investigation and found the incident "entirely unacceptable." The absurdity from the Wheaton standpoint, is that the punishment they deemed warranted was an essay and some community service, for kids who allegedly beat, kidnapped, hurled racial slurs at, and attempted to sodomize a 19 year old who just wanted to be part of a football team. Just a taaaaad underwhelming in terms of a response from Wheaton.

The only right answer here is to remove them from the team and school until the requisite facts can be gathered. If they're names are cleared bring them back. If not, wish them luck...in prison.

97% of the time someone is charged with a crime they plead guilty. I am well aware frequently this is because they get offered a lesser sentence and the risk of trial is too great, but I'm having a real hard time imagining why a kid would make this up. Especially given the number of witnesses he is able to offer up. If the DA wasn't supremely confident in its position, it wouldn't be bringing charges, even 18 months after the incident supposedly happened.

Wheaton screwed this up royally.

There is no allegation of racial slurs. Race doesn't enter into it; what with the school involved being Wheaton, the odds are pretty good that the victim was just as melanin-challenged as are the five alleged perpetrators. They did play "Muslim music" (whatever that is) and allegedly intimated to the alleged victim (who'd had a pillowcase forced over his head) that they were terrorists who were going to treat him the way that Muslim terrorists treat a goat (or something like that), but there were no racial slurs involved.

[jamtod]

There is no allegation of racial slurs. Race doesn't enter into it; what with the school involved being Wheaton, the odds are pretty good that the victim was just as melanin-challenged as are the five alleged perpetrators. They did play "Muslim music" (whatever that is) and allegedly intimated to the alleged victim (who'd had a pillowcase forced over his head) that they were terrorists who were going to treat him the way that Muslim terrorists treat a goat (or something like that), but there were no racial slurs involved.

According to Deadspin, quoting the Chicago Tribune article: "the players... made offensive comments about Muslims"
I imagine that could be interpreted as racial slurs. Not sure why it was relevant or why they chose to go that route with intimidation, unless perhaps the player was of Middle Eastern descent.

[Mr.MIAC]

There is no allegation of racial slurs. Race doesn't enter into it; what with the school involved being Wheaton, the odds are pretty good that the victim was just as melanin-challenged as are the five alleged perpetrators. They did play "Muslim music" (whatever that is) and allegedly intimated to the alleged victim (who'd had a pillowcase forced over his head) that they were terrorists who were going to treat him the way that Muslim terrorists treat a goat (or something like that), but there were no racial slurs involved.

According to Deadspin, quoting the Chicago Tribune article: "the players... made offensive comments about Muslims"
I imagine that could be interpreted as racial slurs. Not sure why it was relevant or why they chose to go that route with intimidation, unless perhaps the player was of Middle Eastern descent.

Or unless they're students at a socially sheltered college who haven't seen much of the world and think "Muslim" equals "bad." In this context, framing their target as Muslim is a way to downplay their humanity. That's likely the case here...