FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[sjujohnnie]

Does anyone have any insight as to the direction St John's is moving in? They've now qualified for the playoffs each of the last four years, three of which they exited in the second round. Do you think they'll get back to a point as a program where they'll make it to the semi-finals regularly & compete for a national championship? If so, how many years off is that from happening? How do programs, Mount Union being a prime example, dominate year-in & year-out? How much of that is coaching? Do they have access to a recruiting base with that many better athletes? Is it player development? Appreciate any honest insight!

[MiacMan]

Does anyone have any insight as to the direction St John's is moving in? They've now qualified for the playoffs each of the last four years, three of which they exited in the second round. Do you think they'll get back to a point as a program where they'll make it to the semi-finals regularly & compete for a national championship? If so, how many years off is that from happening? How do programs, Mount Union being a prime example, dominate year-in & year-out? How much of that is coaching? Do they have access to a recruiting base with that many better athletes? Is it player development? Appreciate any honest insight!

No special insight into just the SJU program but, looking at the big picture as a whole it is going to be difficult for SJU or any other MIAC school to get to the semi-finals on a regular basis. UST isn't going away anytime soon. SJU will win their share of MIAC titles as will UST. With those two splitting the the title every other year and with Concordia or Bethel grabbing it every now and then as well. Seeding is a pretty big deal. UMHB has been playing Linfield so those teams have been taking on challenges. The winner of the MIAC has benefited from this in seedings. I believe that is over now. Mount and UMHB will probably go into next year as 1-2 with nobody to really challenge them all year, so they will probably finish with the 1-2 seeds in the brackets. The winner of the WIAC will get a top 4 seed. This leaves 1 remaining top seed (potential semi-finalist). An undefeated MIAC champ has a good chance at it but no guarantees. Linfield with a better SOS would be ahead even a 1 loss WIAC team could potentially be considered for a top seed. Anyway, as you can see it's an uphill battle to take down Mount or UHMB. Deservedly so they both answer the bell every year in the playoffs, especially Mount. 

[Desertraider]

Does anyone have any insight as to the direction St John's is moving in? They've now qualified for the playoffs each of the last four years, three of which they exited in the second round. Do you think they'll get back to a point as a program where they'll make it to the semi-finals regularly & compete for a national championship? If so, how many years off is that from happening? How do programs, Mount Union being a prime example, dominate year-in & year-out? How much of that is coaching? Do they have access to a recruiting base with that many better athletes? Is it player development? Appreciate any honest insight!

The better athlete has been addressed a great deal and I just don't buy it. Mount may get 1 or 2 better than the rest (Justin Hill and maybe Fulford this year) but for the most part it is development and coaching. The thing is that every year (almost) Mount has gotten that 1 or 2 better athletes. They do add up - get 1 or 2, then 1 or 2 and you may have 4 or so on the field at any given time. But - coaching is the key.

The MVP of the Stagg (Nick Brish #37) this year was a backup until Brian Groves went down in round 2. He is good - he isn't the best athlete on the field. Same for Trey Williams (#43) he was a backup until the Stagg Bowl when starter and defensive Captain Charlie Dear (#34 and an All-American) couldn't go due to injury. Both of these players are talented - but more importantly they play smart. Read keys, no hero ball, do their job and count on the others to do their job.

Coaching is the only thing that hasn't changed much in 25 years. The core are former Mount players passing along the values, techniques, focus on execution and mental toughness. Mount has had a core for 25+ years that focus on the little things every day. You can add in the role upper classmen play in the development of younger players. Plus the Fr and So get a ton of playing time against 1st teams in 2nd half of games. By the time they are Juniors - they have a full season pf playing time under their belt.

I guess the short answer is: yes.

If I am SJUs coach I rewind. What did Coach Gagliardi do that I can implement, what did he do I can copy, and what did he do I can adapt. I call in some former greats from his days as HC and talk about what made SJU - The Johnnies. Then look at the current program and see what doesn't fit. SJU didn't always have the fastest guys or the biggest. They had determined guys that played smart and as a team. SJU will get back only if they want to. Cheers-

[edward de vere]

SJU didn't always have the fastest guys or the biggest. They had determined guys that played smart and as a team. SJU will get back only if they want to.

Indeed.  The victory of St. John's in 2003 was very annoying.  Every defensive player who was supposed to be in spot X was in  . . . spot X.  Every special teams player who was supposed to be in spot Y was in . . . spot Y.

Very annoying.  Very annoying.

[bluenote]

Before Pat releases the D3 Top 25, I'll toss out my imaginary vote.

1. Mount Union
2. Mary Hardin Baylor
3. Oshkosh
4. St. Thomas
5. Brockport
6. Wartburg
7. Delaware Valley
8. Frostburg
9. Linfield
10. North Central
11. Berry
12. Wesley
13. Hardin Simmons
14. St. John's
15. Illinois Wesleyan
16. Wittenberg
17. Washington and Jefferson
18. Case Western Reserve
19. Trine
20. Husson
21. Springfield
22. Johns Hopkins
23. Wheaton
24. Concordia Moorhead
25. Whitewater

Numbers 13 through 22 are difficult, and are almost interchangeable. I know that Case won in the snow against Illinois College, but in a more "traditional" playing circumstance, I suspect Illinois wins the game more often than not.

I'd switch Linfield with Delaware Valley. And SJU would be #11

[Ratbacker100]

Does anyone have any insight as to the direction St John's is moving in? They've now qualified for the playoffs each of the last four years, three of which they exited in the second round. Do you think they'll get back to a point as a program where they'll make it to the semi-finals regularly & compete for a national championship? If so, how many years off is that from happening? How do programs, Mount Union being a prime example, dominate year-in & year-out? How much of that is coaching? Do they have access to a recruiting base with that many better athletes? Is it player development? Appreciate any honest insight!

Agreed I believe the days where SJU receives the benefit of the doubt are over. The unwillingness to play competitive non-conference opponents and a failure to move past the second round in recent history has caught up with them in the eye of the committee. It appears obvious that the bar has been set at qualifying for the playoffs, which is great for fringe programs but not those who consider themselves DIII's elite.
By not scheduling a quality non-conference opponent it sends a message that a lack of confidence in its ability to win the MIAC exists. The recipe back to the promise land is to instill confidence throughout the program, that is accomplished by defeating quality opponents not bludgeoning baby seals. If a loss to a quality opponent and failure to win the MIAC eliminates you from the postseason is that a bad thing? To me playing competitive games versus worthy opponents is what it is going to take to reinstall the confidence within the program. We all go to work each day, and in doing so our employer must have the confidence that our performance will lead to the success of the enterprise, if it doesn't then we can expect changes to be made. I don't see why a similar expectation would not exist within a paid staff.
Can the Johnnies return to glory sure, they still have a very strong brand, but we all know the definition of insanity.

[art76]

Before Pat releases the D3 Top 25, I'll toss out my imaginary vote.

1. Mount Union
2. Mary Hardin Baylor
3. Oshkosh
4. St. Thomas
5. Brockport
6. Wartburg
7. Delaware Valley
8. Frostburg
9. Linfield
10. North Central
11. Berry
12. Wesley
13. Hardin Simmons
14. St. John's
15. Illinois Wesleyan
16. Wittenberg
17. Washington and Jefferson
18. Case Western Reserve
19. Trine
20. Husson
21. Springfield
22. Johns Hopkins
23. Wheaton
24. Concordia Moorhead
25. Whitewater

Numbers 13 through 22 are difficult, and are almost interchangeable. I know that Case won in the snow against Illinois College, but in a more "traditional" playing circumstance, I suspect Illinois wins the game more often than not.

No surprise I nailed the top 5.
6 through 10 we agree on, just a little different order.
Same can be said for 11 to 19, just a little different order.
Because of the tie at number 25, I only got 4 out of their bottom 6. The one I chose, Springfield was their number 27, being the team receiving the most votes outside of the top 25.

I can live with my picks.

[Ohsaa13]

Not sure I agree with prior post that IWU beats CWRU if circumstances with weather was different.  I actually think everyone wants to believe N Central and IWU are better than they are and in reality Case just had a good team this year and would have beat NC as well. If the weather was better it may been a bigger differential in the score. W&J is not
Of the same caliber team as Case this year so no way should they be ranked higher than Case. . I saw both Frostburg and Case play Mount and Case was much better foe than Frostburg.  Not a CWRU dad, player or alum. Just saw a bunch of football this year and believe the conference was over rated and Case proved this point.  I think you just lost focus and started selecting with your heart more than your head.  And I totally get that which is why I had Mount #1

[sjusection105]

Does anyone have any insight as to the direction St John's is moving in? They've now qualified for the playoffs each of the last four years, three of which they exited in the second round. Do you think they'll get back to a point as a program where they'll make it to the semi-finals regularly & compete for a national championship? If so, how many years off is that from happening? How do programs, Mount Union being a prime example, dominate year-in & year-out? How much of that is coaching? Do they have access to a recruiting base with that many better athletes? Is it player development? Appreciate any honest insight!

Agreed I believe the days where SJU receives the benefit of the doubt are over. The unwillingness to play competitive non-conference opponents and a failure to move past the second round in recent history has caught up with them in the eye of the committee. It appears obvious that the bar has been set at qualifying for the playoffs, which is great for fringe programs but not those who consider themselves DIII's elite.
By not scheduling a quality non-conference opponent it sends a message that a lack of confidence in its ability to win the MIAC exists. The recipe back to the promise land is to instill confidence throughout the program, that is accomplished by defeating quality opponents not bludgeoning baby seals. If a loss to a quality opponent and failure to win the MIAC eliminates you from the postseason is that a bad thing? To me playing competitive games versus worthy opponents is what it is going to take to reinstall the confidence within the program. We all go to work each day, and in doing so our employer must have the confidence that our performance will lead to the success of the enterprise, if it doesn't then we can expect changes to be made. I don't see why a similar expectation would not exist within a paid staff.
Can the Johnnies return to glory sure, they still have a very strong brand, but we all know the definition of insanity.

You also have to have a game plan that fits the players on field. You can't blindly "run to set up the pass" and you can't "forget about him" when "him" is the explosive playmaker who can go this distance with every touch; he needs more than 2-3 touches per game. The talent must have been obvious when he was playing offense,defense and special teams just not on September 23,2017.

[AO]

Well, it appears that Hamline will have to solve their own issues. On to the next topic: Does anyone think Brockport is going to win tomorrow?

No. Will they keep it under a 30 point loss? Maybe. I think a 30-pt loss is more likely than them winning.

Yes and if that does happen (30pt+ Loss) Hopefully the selection committee won't give us any all east region brackets for a while.

The tournament was probably better off this year with an East Region bracket.  Del Val and Brockport got to play a competitive game  against each other rather than get blown out.  Anyone who understands a bit of how D3 playoffs work should understand the brackets are not fully seeded and advancing further doesn't mean you were a better team.

Based on the outcry from the East region people on facebook/twitter I have been proven wrong.  Apparently advancing farther means you're better and St. Thomas would get destroyed by Brockport.

[jamtod]

Well, it appears that Hamline will have to solve their own issues. On to the next topic: Does anyone think Brockport is going to win tomorrow?

No. Will they keep it under a 30 point loss? Maybe. I think a 30-pt loss is more likely than them winning.

Yes and if that does happen (30pt+ Loss) Hopefully the selection committee won't give us any all east region brackets for a while.

The tournament was probably better off this year with an East Region bracket.  Del Val and Brockport got to play a competitive game  against each other rather than get blown out.  Anyone who understands a bit of how D3 playoffs work should understand the brackets are not fully seeded and advancing further doesn't mean you were a better team.

Based on the outcry from the East region people on facebook/twitter I have been proven wrong.  Apparently advancing farther means you're better and St. Thomas would get destroyed by Brockport.

I... ummm... yeah.. I'm still a little unnerved at what became of that discussion. I just wanted to debate the merits of 45 and 48 yard FGs and their impact on the (potential) final score. And also get into the nitty gritty of offensive and defensive statistical comparisons.

[GillCJ1]

FWIW, on twitter I replied to one of Keith's posts and said I thought Mount and UST were far and away the 2 best teams the Cru faced this season.  That isn't a knock on Brockport.  I just happen to believe the Tommies were the better team and the final rankings reflect that.

[jamtod]

FWIW, on twitter I replied to one of Keith's posts and said I thought Mount and UST were far and away the 2 best teams the Cru faced this season.  That isn't a knock on Brockport.  I just happen to believe the Tommies were the better team and the final rankings reflect that.

I saw that. Too bad I can't follow the whole threads since Frank blocked me   

[Pat Coleman]

FWIW, on twitter I replied to one of Keith's posts and said I thought Mount and UST were far and away the 2 best teams the Cru faced this season.  That isn't a knock on Brockport.  I just happen to believe the Tommies were the better team and the final rankings reflect that.

I saw that. Too bad I can't follow the whole threads since Frank blocked me   

I doubt you're missing much.

[jamtod]

FWIW, on twitter I replied to one of Keith's posts and said I thought Mount and UST were far and away the 2 best teams the Cru faced this season.  That isn't a knock on Brockport.  I just happen to believe the Tommies were the better team and the final rankings reflect that.

I saw that. Too bad I can't follow the whole threads since Frank blocked me   

I doubt you're missing much.

I love my drama Pat.

Thanks for all your hardwork! This just makes us even more aware and appreciative of the angst you get directed at you from all directions.