FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[MUC57]

jamtoTommie

I certainly respect your comments on Coach Caruso. Like you said, I guess we see from different perspectives.
And you're right about not comparing Urban Meyer with Caruso. Way, way different.
In spite of the comments by me, I wish the Tommies good luck on the season. If you're the best team, you deserve to win. ☠🏈

[AO]

Me thinks that if they had to report, we'd see that SJ2 spends far more per student on athletics than anyone in the MIAC. There's nothing wrong with that of course. It just shows what institutions prioritize.

I thought rather than just state uninformed opinions (as easy and fun as that is), perhaps we should inform ourselves.

From the equity in athletics gov't website (https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/compare/details) I selected the schools I thought most likely to spend big on sports in the MIAC.  In the tables below they are UST, GAC, CON, BU.

Total Opex:


Total direct expense:


Meaning total expenditure by institution on football and total men's sport is (% spend on football):

UST: $1,398,588 ; $3,021,467  (46%)
GAC: $595,436 ; $2,052,591 (29%)
CON: $596,408 ; $1,710,646 (35%)
BU: $655,506 ; $1,786,289 (37%)

Participants:



Using the data in the article you linked, Rev, the spend per participant in football and total men's sport is (football multiple over sport in general):

UST: $8,965 ; $4977 (1.8)
GAC: $5,564 ; $4,155 (1.3)
CON: $4,809 ; $4,131 (1.2)
BU: $6,490 ; $4,738 (1.4)


It's evident in the data from institutions that must report expenditure for Title IX purposes that UST spends about 38% more per football player than the next closest institution in the MIAC (BU) and well over two-times more overall.  Additionally, as a football-oriented institution, UST spends proportionally much more per athlete on football players than it does on other athletes compared to it's MIAC peers.

I guess that goes to show the priorities of the institutions in the MIAC.  And how much U$T is willing to spend in order to buy their way into national contention.

SJU may drop some coin on football, as per your belief, but they have a hell of a long way to go to catch up to the Caruso money machine.

(And my apologies to any offended GAC readers.  Your school comes in a comfortable and humble fourth place in the list of schools I selected.)

I don't think it will change any of your conclusions but the operating expenses are included in the section you labeled "direct expenses".

[wm4]

UST fans

No doubt The Tommies are among the elite in Dlll. For that, I give Caruso credit. Also credit to the University for being supportive of the football program.
Now. 2012 Stagg Bowl. Mount running out the clock. Burke takes a knee. Tommies linemen go after him. 2nd down. Burke takes a knee. Tommie linemen try to tackle him. 3rd down. Burke asks Coach Kehres if he can throw into the end zone for a possible TD. Kehres says no. Which coach has the most class? Kehres is in the College Hall of Fame.
Then there are the 2 point conversions, when holding a size able lead. Don't forget the on-side kicks, the passes to the end zone all when holding a big lead. How about the monstrous scores?
JamtoTommie - those are a few things I was thinking about. Hope that answers your question.
In the meantime, I'll just go on rooting for the Purple Raiders to get #14. Looks pretty good this year.
Hell, Go Everybody! ☠🏈

Fair. Some are pretty concerned about him holding hands with his players, so I just wanted to check if there was something new to be outraged about. Appreciate your insights, even if, as has been rehashed time and again, I view a few of those situations differently. But I'm not unbiased and I can accept that.

Every experience I have had with him (generally including with my children) has been positive, so that's going to override whatever other beefs there are.

Adding to this...sure, Caruso can rub people the wrong way when they see certain things on the football field.  I get that and I'm sure I'd feel the same way if I had a rooting interest in UST's opponents.  Heck even in the UST stands, some of us will debate whether he really should be doing certain stuff.  But the bottom line is, Caruso marches to his own drum and he's 1000% committed to that beat.  He knows exactly what he's doing and their is a defined purpose for everything he does.  He has very little concern over what others think of him or how he's viewed by other coaches, fan bases or on message boards.  He is incredibly focused on his job as the head coach and he's molded that program into exactly what he wants.  Will he ultimately get to the top of the D3 mountain with this approach and win a national championship?  We'll see, I think they're getting closer.  Will he win a popularity contest on message boards and among fans?  Certainly not. 

I will add this as well.  Off the field, he is a fine man.  He' super committed to his family and the F.A.M.I.L.Y too.  Having seen the program up close, he is an outstanding molder of young men who go on to be great husbands, fathers and members of their community.  I can't argue at all with that success, sign me up any day for more of that. 

[sjusection105]

Adding to this...sure, Caruso can rub people the wrong way when they see certain things on the football field.  I get that and I'm sure I'd feel the same way if I had a rooting interest in UST's opponents.  Heck even in the UST stands, some of us will debate whether he really should be doing certain stuff.  But the bottom line is, Caruso marches to his own drum and he's 1000% committed to that beat.  He knows exactly what he's doing and their is a defined purpose for everything he does.  He has very little concern over what others think of him or how he's viewed by other coaches, fan bases or on message boards.  He is incredibly focused on his job as the head coach and he's molded that program into exactly what he wants.  Will he ultimately get to the top of the D3 mountain with this approach and win a national championship?  We'll see, I think they're getting closer.  Will he win a popularity contest on message boards and among fans?  Certainly not. 

I will add this as well.  Off the field, he is a fine man.  He' super committed to his family and the F.A.M.I.L.Y too.  Having seen the program up close, he is an outstanding molder of young men who go on to be great husbands, fathers and members of their community.  I can't argue at all with that success, sign me up any day for more of that.

Similar things were said about John Gagliardi by those wearing red tinted glasses, FWIW.

[MUC57]

sjusection105

John Gagliardi was a legend. 🏈😀

[MUC57]

wm4

Sounds like Caruso has a side we don't get to see. If he is as you say, I have a lot of respect for him - as a person! Seems like lots of people have two sides that may be in conflict with each other.
I hope I made sense. I know what I meant. Good luck on the season. I'll fade away and let you and the Johnnies go at each other. Go Everybody! ☠🏈

[DuffMan]

sjusection105

John Gagliardi is a legend. 🏈😀

Corrected that for you.

[OzJohnnie]

I don't think it will change any of your conclusions but the operating expenses are included in the section you labeled "direct expenses".

Thanks, AO.  How do you know?  I tried to figure that out when i was writing the post but wasn't sure.

[MUC57]

Duffman

Thanks! ☠🏈😀

[OldAuggie]

https://twitter.com/SJUJohnnies/status/1034863319532875776?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E3

Speaking of spending money on athletics this SJU hype video is good but it had to cost a pretty penny.  I defend MIAC athletics often and to some casual fans they think all D3 athletics should be funded like Mac or U of Chicago. The MIAC like the WIAC is a wicked competitive conference and not for the weak of heart. Spend it if you have it is my thought. Some critics see the  big tuition $ generated by all the D3 athletes playing various sports and I know that is part of the budget.  SJU and UST football as well as Augsburg wrestling also attract additional students to the respective school.  That is fact.

[OzJohnnie]

Black box?  Ha!  Only to those unwilling to dig.

Fortunately, SJU and UST use the same auditor so it is reasonable to expect that expense treatment is the same on the annual reports.  As a third point of comparison, BU also use CliftonLarsonAllen who seem to have created a nice little higher education practice for themselves in Minnesota.

The latest year I have to compare all three institutions is 2016.  Athletic budgets are not broken down in detail in the fin reports like they are for Title IX reporting, but student activities and services are listed which I believe includes athletics.  I'll take half the expense there from BU and UST, even though the Title IX data shows the split is more 60/40 between men and women, and we get expenditure of:

SJU (full): $9,884,734
BU  (half): $4,372,674
UST (half): $17,612,746

Now, not as precise as the Title iX reporting specifically on sports expentiture, it does paint a consistent and expected picture.  SJU falls in between BU and UST.  From looking at these numbers I would expect SJU's football department to be similar to UMU.  In fact, UMU spends about $8 million on student services, so perhaps SJU drops just a few dollars more on football than UMU does.

[DuffMan]

In fact, UMU spends about $8 million on student services, so perhaps SJU drops just a few dollars more on football than UMU does.

SJU needs to spend some of that money on a scoreboard from this decade (though I have heard several times that the monastery has vetoed it).

[OzJohnnie]

In fact, UMU spends about $8 million on student services, so perhaps SJU drops just a few dollars more on football than UMU does.

SJU needs to spend some of that money on a scoreboard from this decade (though I have heard several times that the monastery has vetoed it).

Wait another 250 years and that scoreboard will show up on Antique Roadshow worth about $9 billion.

[Mr.MIAC]

https://twitter.com/SJUJohnnies/status/1034863319532875776?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E3

Speaking of spending money on athletics this SJU hype video is good but it had to cost a pretty penny.  I defend MIAC athletics often and to some casual fans they think all D3 athletics should be funded like Mac or U of Chicago. The MIAC like the WIAC is a wicked competitive conference and not for the weak of heart. Spend it if you have it is my thought. Some critics see the  big tuition $ generated by all the D3 athletes playing various sports and I know that is part of the budget.  SJU and UST football as well as Augsburg wrestling also attract additional students to the respective school.  That is fact.

At UST, baseball and basketball are also a draw. I hear buggy racing up at SJ2 has quite a following as well.

[OzJohnnie]

By "also a draw" you mean they pull a crowd even when they aren't playing SJU?