FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[jknezek]

NAIA with a better playoff system that picks the top teams, instead of an AQ system which pulls in four or five contenders and 27 participation trophy superstars.  And bring the other NCAA gorillas to the party.  The clown show on display here is the just the tip of the iceberg.  Be aggressive DIII sporting schools and control your own fates.

I do not think the NAIA playoffs work the way you think they work...

[OzJohnnie]

Just to be clear because I realise I'm writing imprecisely.

Today was to set the agenda for the May meeting.  The May meeting votes on whatever items are on the agenda, including bylaw changes.

The nature of the press releases sounds to me like the vote to change bylaws was not put on the May agenda.  I obviously could be wrong, but the revelation that this would be discussed at future "meetings" (plural) makes me think that a bylaw change will not be on the agenda in May.  Supporting that belief is the Tommie press release which says, "Prior to today's meeting, multiple sources indicated the 13 school presidents would likely consider placing an enrollment cap of 4,000 undergraduate students on MIAC members."  That sounds as if what was being considered "prior" to the meeting did not occur in the meeting.

Anyways, we'll see if I've guess the exciting conclusion to the Game of MIAC properly or if there will be a big twist when it's revealed that the STO president is actually the bastard son of Hubert Humphrey and a throng of drunk Canadians are marching south to kill everyone and burn Caruso on a stake in the middle of Lake Calhoun.

[OzJohnnie]

NAIA with a better playoff system that picks the top teams, instead of an AQ system which pulls in four or five contenders and 27 participation trophy superstars.  And bring the other NCAA gorillas to the party.  The clown show on display here is the just the tip of the iceberg.  Be aggressive DIII sporting schools and control your own fates.

I do not think the NAIA playoffs work the way you think they work...

Probably not.  I'm just suggesting that schools start suggesting aggressive new ideas that will threaten D3 conferences.  Two can play this silly game of "let's make your life hell and turn your world upside down."

[carletonknights]

I wonder how they arrived at 4000.

https://www.tommiemedia.com/news/st-thomas-stays-in-miac-after-presidents-take-no-action/

From that release it sounds like the vote met with defeat as they didn't vote.  No bylaw was changed and all continues.

The MIAC President's Council met as scheduled Thursday to consider bylaw changes that could lead to St. Thomas' expulsion, but no vote was taken.

In a written statement, MIAC Commissioner Dan McKane said discussions between the 13 institutions would continue at future meetings.

Prior to today's meeting, multiple sources indicated the 13 school presidents would likely consider placing an enrollment cap of 4,000 undergraduate students on MIAC members.

St. Thomas has 6,336 undergraduates.

Perhaps Reusse's thumbs down for Kate's and Mary was them voting no.  So that was SJU/CSB/UST/BU/Kate/Mary.  Six no votes.  7 yes votes.  UST stays and the bylaws go unchanged.

Not at all how I interpreted that tweet. 

Like I've said previously on here, Carleton does not want to leave the MIAC.  It does not make sense that they would suddenly reverse course now and risk blowing up the conference.  The person who appears to be the most informed on this vote, Reusse has yet to say (to the best of my knowledge) that Carleton has sided with St. Olaf and the Lutheran schools.  Despite all the assumptions being made on this board, I don't think it is clear that they're in either camp.

[OzJohnnie]

Certainly a more rational position, but significantly less juicy.

[OzJohnnie]

http://www.startribune.com/miac-presidents-meet-postpone-decision-on-st-thomas/508766932/


The headline says more than the article.

HA!  But the tag under this picture is a cracker.  Someone forgot a '1'.  I think even SJU would have voted yes if that tag were accurate.


University of St. Thomas coach Glenn Caruso celebrated with his team after a 207 victory over St. John's. at Target Field in Minneapolis.

[Pat Coleman]

Just to be clear because I realise I'm writing imprecisely.

Today was to set the agenda for the May meeting.  The May meeting votes on whatever items are on the agenda, including bylaw changes.

The nature of the press releases sounds to me like the vote to change bylaws was not put on the May agenda.  I obviously could be wrong, but the revelation that this would be discussed at future "meetings" (plural) makes me think that a bylaw change will not be on the agenda in May. 

This can be discussed at future meetings either way:

• Next meeting, vote on bylaws
• Following meeting, vote on expulsion.

[art76]

SJU/CSB/UST/BU and any other institutions in the stay camp can really take some leadership (if it is correct that the stab in the dark has been avoided) and consider how to guide the MIAC into a dominant conference, rather than an association that has some dominant programs.  Coaching collaboration, conference oriented promotion and recruiting.

Think of the MIAC as a sporting body not unlike the NFL commission (only with more competence and less righteousness, please) who work to lift all boats.  Move the MIAC beyond a regulatory body and on to a promotional body.

Something like that.  Take this opportunity to offer a competing MIAC vision to STO's vision of decline, decay and head-burying.  Instead offer a vision of collaboration and promotion that offers the smaller institutions some value beyond an easy to schedule season and regular ass-kickings.

One wonders if the large money making games between the Tommies and the Johnnies are also playing into the "have" and "have nots" discussions? Maybe a token of good faith to spread the hay-making around so that the whole Conference benefits from the take at the gate might help to smooth things over. Hear me clearly, I am not saying that all teams have to report their gate revenue for the entire year and then split it nine ways at the end of the season, or anything like that. I am saying the marque game of the year in the conference helps both programs out financially. It might go a long way in smoothing things over if some of the wealth was spread around.

I do know that when talking about money, it's a lot easier to decide what other people should do with their money, rather than letting someone decide for themselves. It's a subject that people often are uncomfortable to discuss. Bad or good, it's something I've wondered about since the whole mess was aired out for everyone to see.

I'm with Oz on this one, make the MIAC more about "us" and less about "them". (There's a Pink Floyd song in there someplace.)

[GoldandBlueBU]

Just to be clear because I realise I'm writing imprecisely.


Anyways, we'll see if I've guess the exciting conclusion to the Game of MIAC properly or if there will be a big twist when it's revealed that the STO president is actually the bastard son of Hubert Humphrey and a throng of drunk Canadians are marching south to kill everyone and burn Caruso on a stake in the middle of Lake Calhoun.

Bde Maka Ska

[OzJohnnie]

I'm not inclined to do any sort of collaboration work focused on revenue sharing.  Just passing wads of cash around is more like a Sopranos family meeting in my view than it is an effective collaboration.

Instead I would suggest coaching programs (maybe UST or SJU or BU programs sponsor some NFL/D1 coach to come in and discuss various approaches and such, perhaps giving a little private consultation to each team, etc.  Let the big programs sponsor (and benefit) but everyone participate under the MIAC banner.  A huge draw card, even for the bottom half football schools, would be the professional development that coaches get.  Maybe do something similar with the fitness and strength staff.  Maybe sponsor a similar program only it's MIAC coaches doing development sessions into the area high schools.  Have two or three MIAC coaches team up to deliver a joint clinic, the message being that there are various levels of competition in the MIAC, but everywhere is focused on excellence, yada, yada.)

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

So this meeting turned out about as I expected. The presidents decided to kick the can down the  road and I'm on record as saying they will continue to cowardly kick it down the road, hoping like hell that the issue will go away or resolve itself.  That's what I call spineless leadership.

If enrollment size is crucial to the success/failure of a college athletic program, can someone explain to me how itsy bitsy Gonzaga  is a dominant player in basketball, how Notre Dame is a power in football despite a small student body...and U of MN sux at just about every sport, despite being one of the largest student bodies in the nation?

[gbpuckfan]

As an interested observer with no dog in the fight ... I get where the other schools are coming from... But, geez, invest in your programs and get better. Maybe the schools are too different to co-exist, I guess I don't know enough to say, but just seems wrong. My worthless $.02.

That said, could this be an example of why there was the discussion about Division 4 a few years ago? Big sports spenders (say, WIAC) vs. others who offer it but aren't ever going to be at that level (i.e. Lawrence).

Just curious. Which aspect of where the other schools are coming from do you "get"?

The public reasoning is enrollment, that UST is too big. But undergrad enrollment hasn't really grown significantly. Grad programs have grown but grad students aren't eligible for MIAC competition, so why does that matter?

Conferences are generally groups of similarly minded institutions, right? If they believe UST is has outgrown them - or changed to be different - maybe it makes sense. And maybe that's a red herring for "we're getting tired of losing." Which makes as much sense.

And, while, no the grad students don't compete, a larger institution can mean more resources, more alumni donations, etc. And, maybe Student X thinks "I have a better chance of getting into UST for grad school if I go there for undergrad," so it could be a recruiting advantage - or at least the perception thereof.

Again, I'm not close enough to know all of the details... those are my impressions...

I think that could be an accurate and reasoned portrayal of things, so I appreciate you clarifying (I didn't intend to be confrontational, so I hope didn't come across that way... I try to save that for the Johns). So much of the public whining has been tangential to those concerns. I'm still not convinced that UST is different enough from the other institutions to justify that as a cause for #TomToss, but the school has certainly taken on a long-term plan and made efforts for future positioning, particularly with the expansion of grad programs and athletics.

No offense taken. My comments may not have been entirely clear or reasoned out. That's why I said it's just a perception from far on this side of the border.

Coming from the perspective of a school that is changing conferences - apparently of its own volition - and (somewhat unrelated) a school that routinely has to face teams from a better conference in the playoffs  (WIAC), I get the frustration from the other schools. I guess one question is: what really are the motives - wanting to be with your "own kind" or just being frustrated between the lines?

And if I am UST, after decades of being together, I totally get being upset by all of this.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

I think the Coalition of Crybabies & Losers needs a couple of history lessons: 

Back in the 1980s, Bethel - which stunk at football then so bad Mac played them for Homecoming- got hammered by SJU 77-10 or some such for Gagliardi's 300th career win. Bethel could have been like the COCL and whined and complained, threw a hissy fit and demanded that the big back Johnnies be expelled for the MIAC. OR they could work harder to build up their program, with the goal of becoming St John's equal if not its superior on the gridiron.  I think we all know which path they took. 

For that matter, St Thomas pre-Caruso was mediocre at best in football for decades. A "good" season was 5-5 and being competitive vs SJU. Finally after over 40 years of hovering in the middle of the pack,  they went out and brought in a new coach with a fresh POV and within a few seasons that mediocrity is gone. 
************
The worse decision the MIAC ever made was allowing Mac to pull its football team but remain in the league in all other sports. The next worst decision was re-admitting Olaf, a decision that was strongly supported by St Thomas at the time.

[miac952]

Art - the revenue sharing idea sounds good in theory. The B1G practices that model with bowl game proceeds and other revenue streams. However, the MIAC is not the B1G.

Let's say SJU hosts Tommie Johnnie and they get a gate of 18,000. We'll ignore the fact a number of those are students that are paying little to nothing to attend. We'll say they make $20 a ticket for the sake of simplicity. So SJU grosses $360,000 on attendance. Add another $100k for concessions and you are up to $460,000. Cut that in half to account for expenses. Splitting $230k amongst the 9 football members not named St Johns nets each school a whopping $26,000! If Carleton College is hard up for a $26k check when it's endowment is pushing towards $1 BILLION something is wrong. Revenue sharing won't solve anything, even for the "poorer" schools in the conference, primarily because their is so little revenue to share, as evidenced from the conferences largest event tabulated above.

[sjusection105]

Just to be clear because I realise I'm writing imprecisely.


Anyways, we'll see if I've guess the exciting conclusion to the Game of MIAC properly or if there will be a big twist when it's revealed that the STO president is actually the bastard son of Hubert Humphrey and a throng of drunk Canadians are marching south to kill everyone and burn Caruso on a stake in the middle of Lake Calhoun.

Bde Maka Ska

Oz,
You've been out of touch
http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-park-board-to-vote-tonight-on-lake-calhoun-name-change/421157163/