FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[DuffMan]

The rest of the MIAC got tired of having to compete against Division II and low-mid-major Division I athletes in their Division III conference.

No, not the rest of the MIAC.  Some of the MIAC.

[jamtod]

The rest of the MIAC got tired of having to compete against Division II and low-mid-major Division I athletes in their Division III conference.
I'd love to know what St. Thomas' best athletes are paying to go to school there. I do not think I am suggesting anything untoward as their are many, many ways to keep things street-legal as far as the NCAA is concerned - but financial aid is the elephant in the room. St. Thomas is a very good academic school that rightly attracts student-athletes for the right reasons, but families absolutely take financial aid into consideration when making decisions - and when your son has an offer from a Division II school and a Division III school is also recruiting you, the better academics are only going to take you so far when you're discussing free vs. what Wikipedia states is St. Thomas' average student cost of $30,000 AFTER financial aid. You cannot build an ass-whupping athletic program at the D-III level with only the level of athlete paying 30K per year.

So what exactly are you suggesting? That St Thomas has better student aid and scholarship packages across the board than other schools?

I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

[art76]

I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

I had both of my sons graduate from Bethel in the last 8 years. My younger has been out just three years and his loans have been paid off for 3 months now. His brother had his paid off before he left grad school. (He got a full ride there.) It has been our observation that ACT scores matter, and applying early pay huge dividends after graduating.

Full disclosure - our daughter went to another private college out East and she graduated with more debt and probably would have her loans paid off by now, but she is involved in a protracted divorce, which is not helping things.

[MUC57]

The rest of the MIAC got tired of having to compete against Division II and low-mid-major Division I athletes in their Division III conference.
I'd love to know what St. Thomas' best athletes are paying to go to school there. I do not think I am suggesting anything untoward as their are many, many ways to keep things street-legal as far as the NCAA is concerned - but financial aid is the elephant in the room. St. Thomas is a very good academic school that rightly attracts student-athletes for the right reasons, but families absolutely take financial aid into consideration when making decisions - and when your son has an offer from a Division II school and a Division III school is also recruiting you, the better academics are only going to take you so far when you're discussing free vs. what Wikipedia states is St. Thomas' average student cost of $30,000 AFTER financial aid. You cannot build an ass-whupping athletic program at the D-III level with only the level of athlete paying 30K per year.

So what exactly are you suggesting? That St Thomas has better student aid and scholarship packages across the board than other schools?

I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

jamto and art76

Speaking of tuition costs. My freshman year at Mount Union, 1953, I paid - are you ready? - $500 for the year. That's $250 per semester. I made enough on my summer job to pay for the year. No need for a Pell or any other type of loan.
l believe those were called "the good old days"! FWIW 🎓 💲

[57Johnnie]

The rest of the MIAC got tired of having to compete against Division II and low-mid-major Division I athletes in their Division III conference.
I'd love to know what St. Thomas' best athletes are paying to go to school there. I do not think I am suggesting anything untoward as their are many, many ways to keep things street-legal as far as the NCAA is concerned - but financial aid is the elephant in the room. St. Thomas is a very good academic school that rightly attracts student-athletes for the right reasons, but families absolutely take financial aid into consideration when making decisions - and when your son has an offer from a Division II school and a Division III school is also recruiting you, the better academics are only going to take you so far when you're discussing free vs. what Wikipedia states is St. Thomas' average student cost of $30,000 AFTER financial aid. You cannot build an ass-whupping athletic program at the D-III level with only the level of athlete paying 30K per year.

So what exactly are you suggesting? That St Thomas has better student aid and scholarship packages across the board than other schools?

I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

jamto and art76

Speaking of tuition costs. My freshman year at Mount Union, 1953, I paid - are you ready? - $500 for the year. That's $250 per semester. I made enough on my summer job to pay for the year. No need for a Pell or any other type of loan.
l believe those were called "the good old days"! FWIW 🎓 💲

The good old days indeed! 1953 was my Freshman year as a Johnnie. All 4 years the room, board and tuition was $1000/year and I got half off for academic scholarship/work grant. Summer work at a canning factory took care of things. Student loan???

[TheChucker]

The rest of the MIAC got tired of having to compete against Division II and low-mid-major Division I athletes in their Division III conference.
I'd love to know what St. Thomas' best athletes are paying to go to school there. I do not think I am suggesting anything untoward as their are many, many ways to keep things street-legal as far as the NCAA is concerned - but financial aid is the elephant in the room. St. Thomas is a very good academic school that rightly attracts student-athletes for the right reasons, but families absolutely take financial aid into consideration when making decisions - and when your son has an offer from a Division II school and a Division III school is also recruiting you, the better academics are only going to take you so far when you're discussing free vs. what Wikipedia states is St. Thomas' average student cost of $30,000 AFTER financial aid. You cannot build an ass-whupping athletic program at the D-III level with only the level of athlete paying 30K per year.

So what exactly are you suggesting? That St Thomas has better student aid and scholarship packages across the board than other schools?

I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

I've been through the college athlete recruiting process recently with my daughter so have a first-hand take on this from the student perspective (more input from a financial aid officer here would be great). Every D3 college offers a range of different scholarships and financial aid not technically based on athletics. A good coach recruiter knows what type of aid is available and recruits to that mix. They fall into different categories.

Ideal student athlete recruits would have high academics that contribute to the school's overall stats. These athletes probably land large academic scholarships at most schools and likely qualify for other scholarships too because of their strong resumes. Every school goes after these prospective students, especially if a gifted athlete.

Some recruits might not have top academics to attract big scholarships but are legacy children with parents committed to sending them to that school regardless of cost. Schools love these students because they pay the bills.

Other athletes without high academics might qualify for huge amounts of financial aid based on income, leadership, inner city background, first generation college goers, etc. St. Thomas offers a wide range of these per the website. This is where a skilled recruiter adds a lot of value.

I'm no expert on St. Thomas, but I'm guessing this last category is where St. Thomas has a big advantage over rival MIAC schools because of its size and financial strength. When the undergraduate enrollment is over 6,000, accepting several athletically high achieving kids with lower GPA and/or test scores won't move the needle on the school's total academic stats. It's more difficult to do the same thing in a school 1/3 that size, especially if that school is dependent on tuition in the first place. It's a numbers game. Granted, I have no idea if this is actually driving the dissatisfaction of other MIAC schools, but it seems to make sense.

[faunch]

The rest of the MIAC got tired of having to compete against Division II and low-mid-major Division I athletes in their Division III conference.
I'd love to know what St. Thomas' best athletes are paying to go to school there. I do not think I am suggesting anything untoward as their are many, many ways to keep things street-legal as far as the NCAA is concerned - but financial aid is the elephant in the room. St. Thomas is a very good academic school that rightly attracts student-athletes for the right reasons, but families absolutely take financial aid into consideration when making decisions - and when your son has an offer from a Division II school and a Division III school is also recruiting you, the better academics are only going to take you so far when you're discussing free vs. what Wikipedia states is St. Thomas' average student cost of $30,000 AFTER financial aid. You cannot build an ass-whupping athletic program at the D-III level with only the level of athlete paying 30K per year.

So what exactly are you suggesting? That St Thomas has better student aid and scholarship packages across the board than other schools?

I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

jamto and art76

Speaking of tuition costs. My freshman year at Mount Union, 1953, I paid - are you ready? - $500 for the year. That's $250 per semester. I made enough on my summer job to pay for the year. No need for a Pell or any other type of loan.
l believe those were called "the good old days"! FWIW 🎓 💲

The good old days indeed! 1953 was my Freshman year as a Johnnie. All 4 years the room, board and tuition was $1000/year and I got half off for academic scholarship/work grant. Summer work at a canning factory took care of things. Student loan???

Which canning factory? I spent some time working for the Giant in Le Sueur.

[MUC57]

The rest of the MIAC got tired of having to compete against Division II and low-mid-major Division I athletes in their Division III conference.
I'd love to know what St. Thomas' best athletes are paying to go to school there. I do not think I am suggesting anything untoward as their are many, many ways to keep things street-legal as far as the NCAA is concerned - but financial aid is the elephant in the room. St. Thomas is a very good academic school that rightly attracts student-athletes for the right reasons, but families absolutely take financial aid into consideration when making decisions - and when your son has an offer from a Division II school and a Division III school is also recruiting you, the better academics are only going to take you so far when you're discussing free vs. what Wikipedia states is St. Thomas' average student cost of $30,000 AFTER financial aid. You cannot build an ass-whupping athletic program at the D-III level with only the level of athlete paying 30K per year.

So what exactly are you suggesting? That St Thomas has better student aid and scholarship packages across the board than other schools?

I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

jamto and art76

Speaking of tuition costs. My freshman year at Mount Union, 1953, I paid - are you ready? - $500 for the year. That's $250 per semester. I made enough on my summer job to pay for the year. No need for a Pell or any other type of loan.
l believe those were called "the good old days"! FWIW 🎓 💲

The good old days indeed! 1953 was my Freshman year as a Johnnie. All 4 years the room, board and tuition was $1000/year and I got half off for academic scholarship/work grant. Summer work at a canning factory took care of things. Student loan???

I forgot to mention. I lived at home so only paid tuition. Room and board involved helping mom at home. 

[Mr.MIAC]

I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

I had both of my sons graduate from Bethel in the last 8 years. My younger has been out just three years and his loans have been paid off for 3 months now. His brother had his paid off before he left grad school. (He got a full ride there.) It has been our observation that ACT scores matter, and applying early pay huge dividends after graduating.

Full disclosure - our daughter went to another private college out East and she graduated with more debt and probably would have her loans paid off by now, but she is involved in a protracted divorce, which is not helping things.

I'm the first person in my immediate family to graduate from college. I scored in the top 5% nationally on the ACT, but almost didn't graduate high school on time and did so with only a 2.1 GPA. Nonetheless, I received a full-ride scholarship to attend UST for my undergraduate degree because they saw leadership potential. I've since gone on to earn multiple fully-funded Master's degrees and a PhD from some of the most competitive universities in world. I came away from all this with no student debt. None of this would have happened had UST not given me a chance. While I wasn't a student-athlete, athletics cultivates leadership. In my view, the idea that UST should be penalized or looked down upon for investing in leadership potential is wrongheaded (bordering on asinine).

[57Johnnie]

The rest of the MIAC got tired of having to compete against Division II and low-mid-major Division I athletes in their Division III conference.
I'd love to know what St. Thomas' best athletes are paying to go to school there. I do not think I am suggesting anything untoward as their are many, many ways to keep things street-legal as far as the NCAA is concerned - but financial aid is the elephant in the room. St. Thomas is a very good academic school that rightly attracts student-athletes for the right reasons, but families absolutely take financial aid into consideration when making decisions - and when your son has an offer from a Division II school and a Division III school is also recruiting you, the better academics are only going to take you so far when you're discussing free vs. what Wikipedia states is St. Thomas' average student cost of $30,000 AFTER financial aid. You cannot build an ass-whupping athletic program at the D-III level with only the level of athlete paying 30K per year.

So what exactly are you suggesting? That St Thomas has better student aid and scholarship packages across the board than other schools?

I attended St Thomas with a pretty generous academic financial aid, as did many other students I knew with a decent academic resume. I did not play sports. When I graduated, my dad and I were discussing what I had for student loans and he almost fell out of his seat when he learned how little I had in student loans.

jamto and art76

Speaking of tuition costs. My freshman year at Mount Union, 1953, I paid - are you ready? - $500 for the year. That's $250 per semester. I made enough on my summer job to pay for the year. No need for a Pell or any other type of loan.
l believe those were called "the good old days"! FWIW 🎓 💲

The good old days indeed! 1953 was my Freshman year as a Johnnie. All 4 years the room, board and tuition was $1000/year and I got half off for academic scholarship/work grant. Summer work at a canning factory took care of things. Student loan???

Which canning factory? I spent some time working for the Giant in Le Sueur.

Chippewa Canning Company, Chippewa Falls, WI 

[hazzben]

Can we please quit lumping all the MIAC together. I understand why ESPN does. This story is a blip on their radar and they essentially spend 5 minutes riffing the headline.

There are several teams who had/have the will to compete with UST. They've also proven UST is beatable in the three most notable male sports.

Cultural Side note: how much of this is Caruso also being the epitome of East Coast. It wasn't just that he won. Or that he won big. Gags did that for decades. It was the way he won big (and I know SJU had blowouts too) and how he carried himself. Gags had his aww shucks charm and wit. Caruso came with a Wall Street winner take all, scorched earth approach, and a personality that grated anyone not from UST. That's not wrong, per se, But Minnesota Nice he ain't.

The other element is that many of the MIAC presidents (especially the COL leaders) have handled the ouster in the most Minnesota-ish passive aggressive way possible.

[Mr.MIAC]

Fox News has picked up this story. How is this helping the MIAC?

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/st-thomas-ncaa-conference-powerhouse-booted-miac

[GoldandBlueBU]

Can we please quit lumping all the MIAC together. I understand why ESPN does. This story is a blip on their radar and they essentially spend 5 minutes riffing the headline.

There are several teams who had/have the will to compete with UST. They've also proven UST is beatable in the three most notable male sports.

Cultural Side note: how much of this is Caruso also being the epitome of East Coast. It wasn't just that he won. Or that he won big. Gags did that for decades. It was the way he won big (and I know SJU had blowouts too) and how he carried himself. Gags had his aww shucks charm and wit. Caruso came with a Wall Street winner take all, scorched earth approach, and a personality that grated anyone not from UST. That's not wrong, per se, But Minnesota Nice he ain't.

The other element is that many of the MIAC presidents (especially the COL leaders) have handled the ouster in the most Minnesota-ish passive aggressive way possible.

I'm annoyed by the way that all of the MIAC presidents handled it.  If you're doing something like this, at least own it.  Had they been openly sharing their reasons / convictions on being for or against, maybe there would have been enough alumni / public pushback on their logic that things would have been reversed.  You're right.  Very passive aggressive.  I get why Anderson and whoever his main cohorts were decided to be very quiet about it, as it served their goals, but there wasn't any reason that everyone else, who apparently were held hostage to the movement,  had to maintain radio silence.

[57Johnnie]

Fox News has picked up this story. How is this helping the MIAC?

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/st-thomas-ncaa-conference-powerhouse-booted-miac

I don't know where they get UST is the largest school in D III with 6200 undergrads. The WIAC alone has 7 larger undergrad programs. Fake News 

[OzJohnnie]

Can we please quit lumping all the MIAC together. I understand why ESPN does. This story is a blip on their radar and they essentially spend 5 minutes riffing the headline.

There are several teams who had/have the will to compete with UST. They've also proven UST is beatable in the three most notable male sports.

Cultural Side note: how much of this is Caruso also being the epitome of East Coast. It wasn't just that he won. Or that he won big. Gags did that for decades. It was the way he won big (and I know SJU had blowouts too) and how he carried himself. Gags had his aww shucks charm and wit. Caruso came with a Wall Street winner take all, scorched earth approach, and a personality that grated anyone not from UST. That's not wrong, per se, But Minnesota Nice he ain't.

The other element is that many of the MIAC presidents (especially the COL leaders) have handled the ouster in the most Minnesota-ish passive aggressive way possible.

I'm annoyed by the way that all of the MIAC presidents handled it.  If you're doing something like this, at least own it.  Had they been openly sharing their reasons / convictions on being for or against, maybe there would have been enough alumni / public pushback on their logic that things would have been reversed.  You're right.  Very passive aggressive.  I get why Anderson and whoever his main cohorts were decided to be very quiet about it, as it served their goals, but there wasn't any reason that everyone else, who apparently were held hostage to the movement,  had to maintain radio silence.

Well, if the issue caused a blow-out argument between Horan and Haege, representing two schools that apparently voted 'out' in the end, who knows how ugly it would get if accusations and defenses were publicly aired.  We kind of know what the general argument was anyways:

- Caruso personally was the flashpoint.
- UST size and enrolment/aid practices factor in.
- Competitive imbalance, perhaps regarding player risk, factored in.
- It had reached a critical point where there was no way for things not to change.  Either UST left or 4-5 other members left.
- This had been a growing concern for years, so although new to the press and public it was not new to the presidents

Those are the things that first come to mind and I learned them just from this board.  Despite the bad look now, what would it look like if people involved started talking publicly and a Horan/Haege moment happened in the open?  This could very well be the least worse way this plays out.