FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[57Johnnie]

From Charley Walters Sunday Pioneer Press column...apparently the MIACowards are already making their case to boot SJU!
https://www.twincities.com/2019/05/25/charley-walters-twins-owner-jim-pohlad-excited-with-a-grain-of-salt/

Jeez, surprise, surprise.

We've had a lot of great discussions here but really this post by Redtooth at the very start of it was pretty much all we needed to know about the St. Thomas situation, and, if the MIAC presidents really show their muscle, the future SJU situation.

April 07, 2019, 02:12:59 pm »
There are so many places to start when discussing the current state of affairs in the MIAC....I know way too much information on this situation....Let me start off by stating the origin of this matter was UST Football's dominance and a real demonization of Glenn Caruso as HC....The fact is, he has developed a nationally relevant, incredibly successful football program.  That coupled with Steve Fritz' wonderful vision as AD to excel as a total program....they invested and committed to building a Winning Department.  The bottom half of this league in the meantime has acted as though we are still in the 1970s, and then wondered why student athletes don't go to their schools.  Schools with billion dollar endowments that don't invest in athletics and then bitch when a competitor makes a different investment and commitment decision is the absolute definition of hypocrisy.

What the Presidents are now engaged in doing with the bylaws (modifying to create an Enrollment cap that would only impact one school) has been done under the cover of darkness amongst the like-minded schools....If successful, they will utilize the same strategy to eliminate any school that deviates from the clustering of mediocrity they so desire...SJU will be a next target, guaranteed!

Only good thing is most of what is being proposed is likely not supported legally and could be tied up in the courts.. Removing UST would not make the league stronger or better.

This has gotten out of control. Also, several Johnnies (SFury, Duff, Redtooth, etc.) have acknowledged the lunacy, even though it targeted UST.

Several others have seemed to care little since it targeted UST. How quickly the tune changes if SJU finds itself in the crosshairs.

Reminds me of the famous quote:
First they came for the Communists Tommies
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist Tommie
Then they came for the Socialists Johnnies
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist Johnnie
Then they came for the trade unionists Royals
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist Royal
Then they came for the Jews Cobbers
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew Cobber
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

NB: The MIAC situation isn't even close to the seriousness of the issue the quote refers to. At the end of the day, we are talking about collegiate athletics, not the internment and murder of innocent groups of people.

But it does seem analogous in the sense that the "Mission for MIAC Mediocrity" is developing and far from having run its course. The more truth that comes to the light about the process and motives, the more I wish there was an alternative option for the MIAC schools that have the will to compete.

As someone mentioned earlier, woulda, coulda, shoulda, on UST, SJU, Bethel, Concordia, GAC proactively sticking to their guns. However, there was a bluff to be called, especially in regards to where on earth Hamline, Augsburg, St. Mary's, and St. Kate's thought they were gonna find a conference when the dust settled.

I've spoken out and I believe that most of the Johnnies stand with SJU administration opposing the UST ouster.

[Mr.MIAC]

From Charley Walters Sunday Pioneer Press column...apparently the MIACowards are already making their case to boot SJU!
https://www.twincities.com/2019/05/25/charley-walters-twins-owner-jim-pohlad-excited-with-a-grain-of-salt/

Jeez, surprise, surprise.

We've had a lot of great discussions here but really this post by Redtooth at the very start of it was pretty much all we needed to know about the St. Thomas situation, and, if the MIAC presidents really show their muscle, the future SJU situation.

April 07, 2019, 02:12:59 pm »
There are so many places to start when discussing the current state of affairs in the MIAC....I know way too much information on this situation....Let me start off by stating the origin of this matter was UST Football's dominance and a real demonization of Glenn Caruso as HC....The fact is, he has developed a nationally relevant, incredibly successful football program.  That coupled with Steve Fritz' wonderful vision as AD to excel as a total program....they invested and committed to building a Winning Department.  The bottom half of this league in the meantime has acted as though we are still in the 1970s, and then wondered why student athletes don't go to their schools.  Schools with billion dollar endowments that don't invest in athletics and then bitch when a competitor makes a different investment and commitment decision is the absolute definition of hypocrisy.

What the Presidents are now engaged in doing with the bylaws (modifying to create an Enrollment cap that would only impact one school) has been done under the cover of darkness amongst the like-minded schools....If successful, they will utilize the same strategy to eliminate any school that deviates from the clustering of mediocrity they so desire...SJU will be a next target, guaranteed!

Only good thing is most of what is being proposed is likely not supported legally and could be tied up in the courts.. Removing UST would not make the league stronger or better.

This has gotten out of control. Also, several Johnnies (SFury, Duff, Redtooth, etc.) have acknowledged the lunacy, even though it targeted UST.

Several others have seemed to care little since it targeted UST. How quickly the tune changes if SJU finds itself in the crosshairs.

Reminds me of the famous quote:
First they came for the Communists Tommies
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist Tommie
Then they came for the Socialists Johnnies
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist Johnnie
Then they came for the trade unionists Royals
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist Royal
Then they came for the Jews Cobbers
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew Cobber
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

NB: The MIAC situation isn't even close to the seriousness of the issue the quote refers to. At the end of the day, we are talking about collegiate athletics, not the internment and murder of innocent groups of people.

But it does seem analogous in the sense that the "Mission for MIAC Mediocrity" is developing and far from having run its course. The more truth that comes to the light about the process and motives, the more I wish there was an alternative option for the MIAC schools that have the will to compete.

As someone mentioned earlier, woulda, coulda, shoulda, on UST, SJU, Bethel, Concordia, GAC proactively sticking to their guns. However, there was a bluff to be called, especially in regards to where on earth Hamline, Augsburg, St. Mary's, and St. Kate's thought they were gonna find a conference when the dust settled.

I've spoken out and I believe that most of the Johnnies stand with SJU administration opposing the UST ouster.

Except for the one in Australia who's into victim blaming...

[AndOne]

+K MUC57

Grateful for our freedoms. Reminded they were never free.

One of the victims of 9/11 was Naval Commander Dan Shanower, an Intelligence Officer whose office was on the side of the Pentagon that was struck by one of the hijacked planes. Commander Shanower was from Naperville, IL where I live. In May, 1997, he wrote an article for the US Naval Institute's monthly journal that was about some comrades that had been lost on an exercise during the Iran crisis some 10 years earlier. He ended the article with the words "freedom isn't free." It is widely thought to be the modern origin of the now widely referred to and recognized phrase.

[AndOne]

@AndOne

I don't disagree that UST isn't in the league of the UAA schools academically. Nor would any sane Tommie for that matter. But US New & World Report is not the source that will convince me. Their methodology is roundly criticized, even by the 'elite schools' who tend to do best in the rankings. 

Hazz,

I meant not to disparage UST, only to provide a comparison between their ranking and those of the UAA teams, which are noticeably higher than the vast majority of schools.
As far as the methodology of the US News & World Report, I would venture that there is someone who could and would question the methodology of any organization that publishes such rankings. It's just one example. However, I do sense UST could readily find a more comfortable academic fit.

As far as your comment about the sanity of Tommies———-aren't they ALL perfectly sane?     

[5 Words or Less]

Inside Higher Ed article quotes:
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/05/24/university-st-thomas-kicked-out-sports-league-after-winning-too-many-games

Dan McKane, commissioner of the MIAC, said the conference presidents felt that they [MIAC] and St. Thomas had clashing "philosophies" around athletics, which meant something different depending on which administrator you talked to. He said, though, that the conflict was similar to the one from 10 years ago.  "In Division III, there are more 450 institutions that don't all look alike," McKane said. "Every school has their own advantages. I think through the lens of our presidents, [St. Thomas's] advantages were too great."  St. Thomas was a charter member of the MIAC, helping found the conference in 1920.   Rumblings about the university leaving began a long time ago, but presidents more formally started discussing the idea about two years ago, McKane said.

In the last several years, St. Thomas "made some great choices," said McKane -- investing money in athletics facilities and bringing in high-caliber coaches. The most significant of these hires was in 2008 with the football coach, Glenn Caruso, who has led the team to six conference titles and participation in two national championship games.

Nine institutions were needed to formally vote to remove St. Thomas, but most of them threatened to break off and form their own league, leaving three or four colleges with less money and resources to fend for themselves. St. Thomas administrators essentially saved the conference by agreeing to the other presidents' demands.  "It does look wonky, but knowing the whole background, institutions need to find a good fit," McKane said. "We want to make sure that the institutions that we're with can find success. Ultimately that was the presidents' goal. And clearly this does look very off, but that was not the intention."

Division III institutions were already diverse in terms of enrollment, with some universities having 400 undergraduates and some having up to 40,000 at the time. And while Division III colleges can't offer athletic scholarships, they can extend merit-based scholarships, which have been used to lure athletes to certain institutions. Some Division III colleges have been accused of bending the rules by offering athletes large merit-based scholarships, which deepens the divides between the haves and have-nots among Division III institutions.  "The larger schools, generally among the newest to the division, wanted to offer athletic scholarships and also to do more to emphasize athletic competition, moving closer to the DI approach," said Josephine R. Potuto, former member of the NCAA Division I infractions committee and Richard H. Larson Professor of Constitutional Law at the University of Nebraska at Lincoln. "The smaller schools wanted to retain what they saw as an integrative model of academics and athletics -- athletics offered because of the benefit to students from participation and not to attract fans and donors and etc."

John Thelin, professor of higher education and public policy in the University of Kentucky College of Education, said that some ambitious small colleges have tried joining the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics, which does allow its institutions to have athletic scholarships. "What a shame that such a historic conference has this problem," Thelin said.

[MUC57]

57Johnnie

I guess one advantage our age gives us is - we remember. Best to you, my friend! 🇺🇸 🍺

[57Johnnie]

57Johnnie

I guess one advantage our age gives us is - we remember. Best to you, my friend! 🇺🇸 🍺

....... and to you Buddy 

[TheChucker]

Inside Higher Ed article quotes:
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/05/24/university-st-thomas-kicked-out-sports-league-after-winning-too-many-games

...

Good article written by an outsider for once (I think). Thanks for the link. I wish there was more background given to the historical discussion around the DIV scenario excerpt "The larger schools, generally among the newest to the division, wanted to offer athletic scholarships and also to do more to emphasize athletic competition, moving closer to the DI approach". The article leaves the impression that this Tommie/MIAC issue might be the canary in the coal mine.

[TheChucker]

Inside Higher Ed article quotes:
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/05/24/university-st-thomas-kicked-out-sports-league-after-winning-too-many-games

...

Good article written by an outsider for once (I think). Thanks for the link. I wish there was more background given to the historical discussion around the DIV scenario excerpt "The larger schools, generally among the newest to the division, wanted to offer athletic scholarships and also to do more to emphasize athletic competition, moving closer to the DI approach". The article leaves the impression that this Tommie/MIAC issue might be the canary in the coal mine.

Also surprising to me from the article... "some ambitious small colleges have tried joining the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics, which does allow its institutions to have athletic scholarships". Other than Thomas More leaving to the NAIA, I haven't heard of any strong D3 programs wanting to go NAIA. Maybe behind the scenes? I've long thought the isolated West Coast D3 schools might reconsider NAIA, but haven't heard of any in the East/Midwest where D3 is prevalent.

[5 Words or Less]

MIAC clean since 1959

• WHEREAS the NCAA Committee on Infractions has found Gustavus Adoiphus College to have violated the provisions of Article VII of the bylaws in that the institution's football team participated in a [non-certified] post-season football game at Tucson, Arizona, December 6, l958 ... THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED Gustavus Adolphus College football team shall end its season with the final regularly-scheduled, in-season game and it shall not be permitted to participate in any post-season competition - https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/miCaseView?id=12

.

• WHEREAS, the NCAA Committee an Infractions has found Hamline University to have violated the provisions of Article VI, Section 3, of the Bylaws in that three prospective student-athletes revealed, demonstrated and displayed their abilities in the sport of basketball during a practice session which took place the evening of April 15, 1959, or there about, in a grade school gymnasium in Virginia, Minnesota ... THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that Hamline University be reprimanded and censured for its violation - https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/miCaseView?id=6

[5 Words or Less]

MIAC's #TomToss has precedent

In 1939, [John] Roning took over at Gustavus Adolphus College where he served as athletic director, football, basketball and track coach.[2] During his tenure as football head coach, Roning led the Gusties to an overall record of 17 wins, five losses and one tie (17–5–1).  He led the Gusties to the 1940 Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC) championship; however, the school was suspended from the MIAC for the 1941 season for its perceived "overemphasis" on collegiate athletics.

Gustavus Adolphus which was suspended Saturday from the state college conference, Monday face possible loss of it's coach, John Roning.  Roning has been offered the job of athletic director and head coach at Augustana College, Rock Island, Ill., but president O.J. Johnson said he hoped Roning would remain as athletic director and head coach.

Gustavus was suspended by the conference council of faculty managers for one year effective next fall, for overemphasizing athletic activities. It will be forced to schedule non-conference opponents for a year.

Gustavus also forfeited the conference's hockey championship to St. Thomas for using an ineligible player.  The Gusties also won the football title last fall.  Johnson said the school had "no recriminations at this time and no protests to make" and that Gustavus expected to be readmitted to the conference after the year's suspension.

[Mr.MIAC]

I'm a combat veteran (Iraq 2004-05). It's not something that I talk about much, aside from when it might help people understand the conflict. This Memorial Day at home we decided to focus on a far more destructive conflict--the First World War. We watched this documentary and soon our toddler asked the question, "Why do that?" It's probably the best question I've heard in a long time.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrabKK9Bhds

[hazzben]

I'm a combat veteran (Iraq 2004-05). It's not something that I talk about much, aside from when it might help people understand the conflict. This Memorial Day at home we decided to focus on a far more destructive conflict--the First World War. We watched this documentary and soon our toddler asked the question, "Why do that?" It's probably the best question I've heard in a long time.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrabKK9Bhds

Thanks for your service Rev.

[BDB]

Bill Buckner died today and has been mentioned on every sports show I watched.

They all also pointed out the game 6 error and apologized for bringing it up, so to speak.

The guy was a helluva baseball player.  Just say that and leave it be.

[DFWCrufan]

As an old Air Force veteran, I ask that we remember all those who fought and died for our freedoms.
When they were called upon, they gave unselfishly of their time, their energy, and their lives. Wherever they may be, Arlington National Cemetery, a plain above the beaches of Normandy or a remote island in the South Pacific, may they rest in eternal peace!
Job well done! 🇺🇸

Grew up AirForce, My father served in Korea and two tours of Vietnam. He Crewed KC-135s refueling thirsty fighters, fighter bombers and heavies with a few rescues going after fighters who tangled with MiGs. We lost a few family friends, F-105 Drivers, B-52 Crews and some F-111 guys who are still MIA, and I still remember the fear of the staff cars coming into your neighborhood with Base commander and chaplain to bring some very bad news. I still l wonder and pray for our friends who are still out there somewhere and hope they are finally found to close that chapter. A mighty thanks to those who served and gave, and even greater thanks to those who served, and gave it all.