FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[miac952]

If UST goes to non-scholarship Pioneer League for football, what's stopping them from keeping the huge Johnnie rivalry? That might still be in the mix.

There is zero benefit to either team. Not happening. Plus, my understanding is non-scholarship football is only temporary to get full funding with some fundraising and facility upgrades.

[SagatagSam]

I think the only Johnnie-Tommie games we are likely to see after 2021 would be some one-off preseason exhibitions--basketball comes to mind right away.

[miac952]

UST backers can speak better to this, but I see almost zero likelihood UST drops FB as a result of this. They could compete in the Pioneer right now with zero budget effect save travel costs. My understanding is D1 FB is in the works with MVFC as the long term goal/plan.

Pure speculation on my part, but if you drop a sport I could see Tennis. No on campus facility. The least amount of success of all of UST sports. I don't know that it saves much money though. Then when you go scholarship football you bring in Women's Lacrosse. Men's Soccer may have the greatest opportunity in all of this. They will be the only D1 program in the state.

[miac952]

I think the only Johnnie-Tommie games we are likely to see after 2021 would be some one-off preseason exhibitions--basketball comes to mind right away.

Correct. And who's to say Prez Anderson and his minions don't have a moratorium on playing UST after they leave too. He's running the MIAC world now. I'm pretty sure he won't want any of his members playing in the sandbox with UST on their way out the door.

[TheChucker]

If UST goes to non-scholarship Pioneer League for football, what's stopping them from keeping the huge Johnnie rivalry? That might still be in the mix.

There's no incentive for SJU because it does nothing for them playoff-wise. UST would probably welcome it during their transition probation, but after that, there'd be no incentive from a competitive standpoint, because they'd need 7 FCS wins to be playoff eligible.

If the Tommies go non-scholarship Pioneer League for the long term, and that's a big if, then I don't think there's a disincentive from a play-off perspective for either team. A loss to a D1 team wouldn't matter for the Johnnies. A loss to a non-conference foe wouldn't matter to a Pioneer League member because only the conference champion gets to be first round playoff fodder.

On the other hand, the incentive for both teams would be to retain one of the best small college rivalries ever. For example, the Cobber-Dragon game was always played out of division and was never a disincentive playoff-wise, but was a huge deal to players, fans and alumni before the NSIC schedule ended that.

If it's the Tommies intention to go full scholarship FCS, this is a non-issue of course.

[OzJohnnie]

Would require a NCAA waiver to jump from DIII to DI.

Seems like a big if.  The NCAA isn't exactly known for lax view on their rules.

Also, "sources say"

I have no idea if this Equal Time Soccer is reputable or if their sources are any good either. Is this akin to Charley Walters talking to some drunk on the street about the Big East? Time will tell.

Try to keep up, ok jamtod? 

http://www.startribune.com/st-thomas-to-get-invite-to-join-division-i-summit-league/562174952/

Well well well.

Assuming waiver to go direct to D1 is approved (I assume they have some indication if they are announcing this?), we'll stick in the MIAC for a 2nd year I guess.

Seeing how the NCAA leadership put the whole D3 to D1 issue on their discussion schedule this past summer, it seems the wheels were being greased ahead of time.

Source for this?

Item 6 g (7) on page 10, Review  of  ReclassificationProcess.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d1/council/Jun2019D1Council_Report.pdf

[OzJohnnie]

The Chairman of the relevant NCAA committee is the Pitt AD, a person I assume is well-known to the UST AD.

https://web1.ncaa.org/committees/committees_roster.jsp?CommitteeName=1STRATVISION

(The next SVP committee meeting is in 12 days, by the way, and they'll have this timely Summit development to discuss.  Three other schools are currently in various stages of probationary transition from D2 to D1.)

[jamtod]

Item 6 g (7) on page 10, Review  of  ReclassificationProcess.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d1/council/Jun2019D1Council_Report.pdf

Thanks.

The relevant bit:

(7) Review of Reclassification Process. (Fairness/Well-Being/Operational)
The Strategic Vision and Planning Committee will continue to discuss
whether an institution should have an opportunity to reclassify from
Division III to Division I, without first requiring that institution be a
Division II member, noting the importance of ensuring preparedness for
Division I membership.

[sju#57]

Maybe this is just a bad rumor, but I have heard rumblings that U$T may not have been "involuntarily" removed. In fact, they actually initiated this but wanted it to look like they were "kicked" out....any one else heard anything about this??

[Pat Coleman]

Maybe this is just a bad rumor, but I have heard rumblings that U$T may not have been "involuntarily" removed. In fact, they actually initiated this but wanted it to look like they were "kicked" out....any one else heard anything about this??

We have one poster on this very board who has basically been insinuating this for quite some time but I can't imagine it's anything but a bad rumor.

I am sure they intentionally won as many MIAC titles as possible, though. That's what competition is about.

[sju#57]

I dont disagree with you at all on that Pat, but I have lived in MN my whole life and grad from SJU in 92, so yes I am a bit biased.  But I also know UST has been trying to get into D1 for quite a number of years.  I live in Northfield and was actually going to go to the UST St. Olaf game in full SJU gear and sit in the UST side in protest of them getting 'booted' out. But this sheds a different light on things if this is true...

[wm4]

Keith Brake
@The_BrakeDown
·
1h
Tom Douple confirms to
@Bison1660

@jeffculhane
, St. Thomas will apply for Pioneer Legaue membership for their football program.

[Inkblot]

Missouri Valley Football Conference:

NDSU
USD
SDSU
Western Illinois
Northern Iowa
Youngstown State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Missouri State

2020 - UND

The Summit League doesn't sponsor football but many of these same schools compete in the Summit League for all other sports.

You left off Illinois State.

UND joining gives the MVFC 11 members. Five from the Summit League, five from the actual Missouri Valley Conference, and one from the Horizon League. Two other MVC schools (Drake and Valparaiso) play football in the Pioneer Football League; other than those two, all football schools in the Summit, MVC, and Horizon play in the MVFC.

A lot of MVC fans hope that the MVC invites Murray State (KY) sometime soon. If that happens (from what I can tell, MVC fans don't expect much from the conference's decision-makers) Murray State would likely be a 12th MVFC member.

I think you'd better get to Collegeville next year if you ever want to see that game played again (at least where one team is DIII). The Pioneer League is 10 members strong, 11 with UST. UST will play at least 8 conference games and will most likely play a few MVFC or Big Sky teams to round out their schedule. During UND's transition they had to fill out their schedule with DII and DIII teams but that was because they played an independent schedule before creating the now-defunct 5 team Great West Conference with other transition teams during their probationary period. After UND got a Big Sky invite and go through the transition they never scheduled a DII team in football again.

Presbyterian (SC) is joining the PFL as the 11th member in 2021. That would make it a convenient juncture to add UST to keep even numbers.

I don't think SJU's pockets are anywhere near deep enough for such a transition.  That would take tens of millions annually to get there.   

If UST goes Pioneer League, it may make some sense to continue the game, especially while UST is getting into a full Pioneer League mentality (instead of playing scholarship D2/D1 squads in nonconference).  But if the Pioneer uses UST to make a full 10-game schedule for all schools around (no-nonconf), then it is truly dead.

The PFL doesn't do a full round robin with 10 schools. I can't see them doing it with more than 10.

—

It's also worth noting that recent developments could shift the FCS landscape considerably. Tarleton State (TX), currently ranked #4 in D2 football, announced earlier this week that they have received an invitation to join the WAC (a D1 conference that hasn't sponsored football since 2011). They're the second D2 school with football to announce a WAC move this year. TSU's AD was quoted as saying that the WAC is "diligently recreating a football conference", which would presumably (unlike its previous football conference) be at the FCS level. Unless the WAC adds a bunch more D2 schools, they only way they can sponsor football is through defections from other FCS conferences such as the Big Sky and Southland. This could cause some sort of domino effect.

[miac952]

If UST goes to non-scholarship Pioneer League for football, what's stopping them from keeping the huge Johnnie rivalry? That might still be in the mix.

There's no incentive for SJU because it does nothing for them playoff-wise. UST would probably welcome it during their transition probation, but after that, there'd be no incentive from a competitive standpoint, because they'd need 7 FCS wins to be playoff eligible.

If the Tommies go non-scholarship Pioneer League for the long term, and that's a big if, then I don't think there's a disincentive from a play-off perspective for either team. A loss to a D1 team wouldn't matter for the Johnnies. A loss to a non-conference foe wouldn't matter to a Pioneer League member because only the conference champion gets to be first round playoff fodder.

On the other hand, the incentive for both teams would be to retain one of the best small college rivalries ever. For example, the Cobber-Dragon game was always played out of division and was never a disincentive playoff-wise, but was a huge deal to players, fans and alumni before the NSIC schedule ended that.

If it's the Tommies intention to go full scholarship FCS, this is a non-issue of course.

Part of the charm of the rivalry the MIAC and the implications on conference and DIII playoff opportunities. A gate of 20,000 is going to amount to a hill of beans relative to the endeavor St Thomas is about to undertake with facilities, scholarships and fundraising. St Thomas is moving to D1. Saint Johns isn't going to be a first call they make to schedule games; and SJU isn't going to sit around and save a spot on UST's schedule for them.

[jamtod]

I dont disagree with you at all on that Pat, but I have lived in MN my whole life and grad from SJU in 92, so yes I am a bit biased.  But I also know UST has been trying to get into D1 for quite a number of years.  I live in Northfield and was actually going to go to the UST St. Olaf game in full SJU gear and sit in the UST side in protest of them getting 'booted' out. But this sheds a different light on things if this is true...

There's a difference between "trying to get into D1" and exploring the possibilities and whether it makes sense. To this point, it had been consistently determined that the best move in this point in time was to remain in the MIAC where over half of contests are within a 30 minute bus ride. Now that that's not an option...