FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[AO]

If UST goes Pioneer League, it may make some sense to continue the game, especially while UST is getting into a full Pioneer League mentality (instead of playing scholarship D2/D1 squads in nonconference).  But if the Pioneer uses UST to make a full 10-game schedule for all schools around (no-nonconf), then it is truly dead.

FCS teams can play 12 regular season games now.

As long as the Tommies stay in the Pioneer, I think the game goes on.

I dont see it continuing, definitely not as an annual event.  What's in it for UST?  besides, SJ2 can fill that spot on their schedule with Mac, which supposedly is going to return to the MIAC fold if UST was gone.  (talk about improving your strength of schedule (sarcasm))

NDSU and SDSU are probably the only teams who would bring a bigger crowd than the Johnnies to Allianz or wherever you're playing.  Both teams are getting a large recruiting benefit by being able to point to that game on the schedule.  Even if MAC does come back, the Johnnies still want 2 non-conference games. 

[MadRedFan]

UST backers can speak better to this, but I see almost zero likelihood UST drops FB as a result of this. They could compete in the Pioneer right now with zero budget effect save travel costs. My understanding is D1 FB is in the works with MVFC as the long term goal/plan.

Sorry Hazz, but I don't know what "MVFC" stands for.

Missouri Valley Football Conference:

NDSU
USD
SDSU
Western Illinois
Northern Iowa
Youngstown State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Missouri State

2020 - UND

The Summit League doesn't sponsor football but many of these same schools compete in the Summit League for all other sports.

SJU FB season ticket holder here, also an Illinois State alum, donor and FB season ticket holder.  FWIW.

I would be very surprised if the MFVC embraced UST at this point. Someone up above mentioned Murray State, and actually that is more the "real" Missouri Valley Conference (the basketball conference) that is interested in Murray.  The two conferences operate relatively separately.  The MVC added Loyola and Valparaiso a couple years ago and there was plenty of howling at adding more private schools, etc.

There is some grumbling now about all the trips from places like Youngstown Ohio, Terre Haute Indiana, Carbondale Ill to the Dakotas.  Granted, Minnesota is closer, but I'm gonna bet the non-Dakota schools wouldn't be that interested.  I could be wrong.  There is talk Youngstown is looking to get out and get a more geographically satisfactory conference (not sure what that would be in FCS), so that might open something up and I spose then you never know.

As far as WIU being "failing" - there is a lot of politics and "geo-politics" involved.  Some of you probably know for a couple years Illinois couldn't pass a state budget, and that didn't help any of the state universities.  And then when they did pass a budget, they almost all took it in the shorts funding wise. WIU and Eastern Ill and SIU-Carbondale in particular have dropped enrollment hugely.  BUT, WIU is in a part of the state that dubbed itself "Forgotonia" many years ago, and I doubt that the politics would allow the state to close a state institution that is crucial to that part of the state.  Again, I could be wrong, but my gut tells me, even if it survives at a greatly reduced enrollment, it stays.

But it makes for some interesting discussion.  ISU is playing the Bison this weekend, so when the discussion board moves on from that game, I'll toss this one out there and see if anyone has comments.

[Inkblot]

Someone up above mentioned Murray State, and actually that is more the "real" Missouri Valley Conference (the basketball conference) that is interested in Murray.  The two conferences operate relatively separately.

I think, though, that if Murray State got invited to the MVC, they'd likely get invited to the MVFC as well.

[USTBench]

UST backers can speak better to this, but I see almost zero likelihood UST drops FB as a result of this. They could compete in the Pioneer right now with zero budget effect save travel costs. My understanding is D1 FB is in the works with MVFC as the long term goal/plan.

Sorry Hazz, but I don't know what "MVFC" stands for.

Missouri Valley Football Conference:

NDSU
USD
SDSU
Western Illinois
Northern Iowa
Youngstown State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Missouri State

2020 - UND

The Summit League doesn't sponsor football but many of these same schools compete in the Summit League for all other sports.

SJU FB season ticket holder here, also an Illinois State alum, donor and FB season ticket holder.  FWIW.

I would be very surprised if the MFVC embraced UST at this point. Someone up above mentioned Murray State, and actually that is more the "real" Missouri Valley Conference (the basketball conference) that is interested in Murray.  The two conferences operate relatively separately.  The MVC added Loyola and Valparaiso a couple years ago and there was plenty of howling at adding more private schools, etc.

There is some grumbling now about all the trips from places like Youngstown Ohio, Terre Haute Indiana, Carbondale Ill to the Dakotas.  Granted, Minnesota is closer, but I'm gonna bet the non-Dakota schools wouldn't be that interested.  I could be wrong.  There is talk Youngstown is looking to get out and get a more geographically satisfactory conference (not sure what that would be in FCS), so that might open something up and I spose then you never know.

As far as WIU being "failing" - there is a lot of politics and "geo-politics" involved.  Some of you probably know for a couple years Illinois couldn't pass a state budget, and that didn't help any of the state universities.  And then when they did pass a budget, they almost all took it in the shorts funding wise. WIU and Eastern Ill and SIU-Carbondale in particular have dropped enrollment hugely.  BUT, WIU is in a part of the state that dubbed itself "Forgotonia" many years ago, and I doubt that the politics would allow the state to close a state institution that is crucial to that part of the state.  Again, I could be wrong, but my gut tells me, even if it survives at a greatly reduced enrollment, it stays.

But it makes for some interesting discussion.  ISU is playing the Bison this weekend, so when the discussion board moves on from that game, I'll toss this one out there and see if anyone has comments.

Well, if the grumbling is coming from the Illinois schools about going to the Dakotas and Youngstown is bowing out, my guess is there could be a conference shake-up on the horizon. It'd make way more sense, geographically, for Youngstown to be in the OVC anyway.

If anything would prevent UST getting into the MVFC it would probably be the Dakota schools not wanting their biggest talent pool drained by UST, not that they could stop it if UST found a scholarship home for football.

[Inkblot]

If anything would prevent UST getting into the MVFC it would probably be the Dakota schools not wanting their biggest talent pool drained by UST, not that they could stop it if UST found a scholarship home for football.

If they're so enthusiastic about adding UST to their conference in other sports, I doubt they'd mind it in football.

[SagatagSam]

My office in downtown Sioux Falls is going crazy over this (tentative) pick-up by the Summit League. They think they've scored a huge victory by bringing in the MSP market for their schools, and, as a graduate of a Summit League school, I do see their point.

I'm just seething because they are all gushing over St. Thomas--especially the people with Augie connections. Apparently, Augie joining the Summit is a mere formality at this point and the announcement has been embargoed (for reasons I don't quite understand). They believe that UST and Augie will join the Summit together, go through the reclassification period together, take their transition period lumps together, and perhaps form some kind of rivalry as a result.

All I've got to say is Go Yotes, always. And, when they are playing the Toms, Go Jacks, Go Sioux (can I say that?), Go Bison, GO EVERYBODY that's playing that school on the corner of Cretin and Summit.

Oddly enough I was JUST getting a sub at Firehouse and the Yotes' lady soccer team was in there. Picked a few brains and apparently Augie isn't a sure thing, which surprises me.

Really? Because every Augie alum that has come to my office--now to gloat given my Cardinal and Blue ties--all believe that Augie in the Summit is in the bag. Many of whom--and take this for what it's worth--like to talk about the types of inside connections they have within the Augie athletic department.

They have the impression the Ghosts of the North Central Conference have come out of the grave and said:


Did your depositions of the several Yotes at Firehouse Subs unearth any specific reasons for why they thought it wasn't a sure thing?

[faunch]

Maybe this is just a bad rumor, but I have heard rumblings that U$T may not have been "involuntarily" removed. In fact, they actually initiated this but wanted it to look like they were "kicked" out....any one else heard anything about this??

There is absolutely zero truth to that rumor.

That depends what your definition of is, is.

[SagatagSam]

True. However, Western Illinois is a failing institution by all accounts and may not even exist in a few years.

YEAH BUT:

WIU's "[r]etention rates, measured by new freshman who return and enroll the following fall, increased to 67.5 percent from 65.3 percent in fall 2018[.]"

AND

"The decline that we saw in that [new enrollment] population was the smallest we've seen in 5 years."

Stick that in your failing institution pipe and smoke it!

That quote is from a story about falling enrollment at WIU since 2006. And, for the uninitiated, WIU's enrollment in 2006 was 13,602 and 7,624 this fall. So it appears the half-life of the student body at WIU is about 14 or so years. It will have shriveled up to the size of Minnesota-Morris at or before 2047. I have zero faith the State of Illinois will correct its budget woes anytime this decade or next.

[MadRedFan]

UST backers can speak better to this, but I see almost zero likelihood UST drops FB as a result of this. They could compete in the Pioneer right now with zero budget effect save travel costs. My understanding is D1 FB is in the works with MVFC as the long term goal/plan.

Sorry Hazz, but I don't know what "MVFC" stands for.

Missouri Valley Football Conference:

NDSU
USD
SDSU
Western Illinois
Northern Iowa
Youngstown State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Missouri State

2020 - UND

The Summit League doesn't sponsor football but many of these same schools compete in the Summit League for all other sports.

SJU FB season ticket holder here, also an Illinois State alum, donor and FB season ticket holder.  FWIW.

I would be very surprised if the MFVC embraced UST at this point. Someone up above mentioned Murray State, and actually that is more the "real" Missouri Valley Conference (the basketball conference) that is interested in Murray.  The two conferences operate relatively separately.  The MVC added Loyola and Valparaiso a couple years ago and there was plenty of howling at adding more private schools, etc.

There is some grumbling now about all the trips from places like Youngstown Ohio, Terre Haute Indiana, Carbondale Ill to the Dakotas.  Granted, Minnesota is closer, but I'm gonna bet the non-Dakota schools wouldn't be that interested.  I could be wrong.  There is talk Youngstown is looking to get out and get a more geographically satisfactory conference (not sure what that would be in FCS), so that might open something up and I spose then you never know.

As far as WIU being "failing" - there is a lot of politics and "geo-politics" involved.  Some of you probably know for a couple years Illinois couldn't pass a state budget, and that didn't help any of the state universities.  And then when they did pass a budget, they almost all took it in the shorts funding wise. WIU and Eastern Ill and SIU-Carbondale in particular have dropped enrollment hugely.  BUT, WIU is in a part of the state that dubbed itself "Forgotonia" many years ago, and I doubt that the politics would allow the state to close a state institution that is crucial to that part of the state.  Again, I could be wrong, but my gut tells me, even if it survives at a greatly reduced enrollment, it stays.

But it makes for some interesting discussion.  ISU is playing the Bison this weekend, so when the discussion board moves on from that game, I'll toss this one out there and see if anyone has comments.

Well, if the grumbling is coming from the Illinois schools about going to the Dakotas and Youngstown is bowing out, my guess is there could be a conference shake-up on the horizon. It'd make way more sense, geographically, for Youngstown to be in the OVC anyway.

If anything would prevent UST getting into the MVFC it would probably be the Dakota schools not wanting their biggest talent pool drained by UST, not that they could stop it if UST found a scholarship home for football.

I mentioned three schools who might be "grumbling" and only one was from Illinois.  Don't think ISU is unhappy (they love their rivalries with NDSU and SDSU), WIU has issues but they have a storied history (as does SIU for that matter) and I think they'd rather stick it out.  I doubt seriously that very many of the MVFC schools would want to shake-up arguably the best FCS football conference (3 schools in the Top 10, 5 in the top 20).  I'm skeptical about anyone wanting UST, altho it's possible the Twin Cities market (for media as well as recruiting) might make them  interested.  But I don't know how the Dakotas and UNI for that matter could do all that much better with recruiting if UST was in, and probably as you point out worse. 

[miac952]

Maybe this is just a bad rumor, but I have heard rumblings that U$T may not have been "involuntarily" removed. In fact, they actually initiated this but wanted it to look like they were "kicked" out....any one else heard anything about this??

There is absolutely zero truth to that rumor.

That depends what your definition of is, is.

I really get a kick out of UST riding off into D1 membership while Faunch, tinfoil hat and all, rants and raves conspiracy theories from his rooftop. Kind of like that group of loony old guy Johnnie fans that would show up to all of UST's football playoff games and root against them during the Johnnie drought.

[stanbob]

I dont disagree with you at all on that Pat, but I have lived in MN my whole life and grad from SJU in 92, so yes I am a bit biased.  But I also know UST has been trying to get into D1 for quite a number of years.  I live in Northfield and was actually going to go to the UST St. Olaf game in full SJU gear and sit in the UST side in protest of them getting 'booted' out. But this sheds a different light on things if this is true...

There's a difference between "trying to get into D1" and exploring the possibilities and whether it makes sense. To this point, it had been consistently determined that the best move in this point in time was to remain in the MIAC where over half of contests are within a 30 minute bus ride. Now that that's not an option...

right....

[Mr.MIAC]

I've known about these developments for some time. The real losers in this whole deal are SJ2. I feel for them. If you're a rural Catholic college with middling academics and lower tier athletics, competing with a major urban Catholic university with strong academics and first tier athletics, it's going to be difficult. I hope SJ2 is up to the challenge. The world needs places producing ditch-diggers too...

[Pat Coleman]

Item 6 g (7) on page 10, Review  of  ReclassificationProcess.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d1/council/Jun2019D1Council_Report.pdf

Thanks.

The relevant bit:

(7) Review of Reclassification Process. (Fairness/Well-Being/Operational)
The Strategic Vision and Planning Committee will continue to discuss
whether an institution should have an opportunity to reclassify from
Division III to Division I, without first requiring that institution be a
Division II member, noting the importance of ensuring preparedness for
Division I membership.

It seems the key discussion point is whether a D3 school is ready to compete D1. 

The NCAA is far more concerned whether the school has the necessary resources to handle D-I membership from an administrative standpoint, rather than on the playing surface.

How do you know that?

Observation. Paying attention to how the NCAA actually works rather than how fans think it works. Stuff like that.

[formerd3db]

Item 6 g (7) on page 10, Review  of  ReclassificationProcess.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committees/d1/council/Jun2019D1Council_Report.pdf

Thanks.

The relevant bit:

(7) Review of Reclassification Process. (Fairness/Well-Being/Operational)
The Strategic Vision and Planning Committee will continue to discuss
whether an institution should have an opportunity to reclassify from
Division III to Division I, without first requiring that institution be a
Division II member, noting the importance of ensuring preparedness for
Division I membership.

It seems the key discussion point is whether a D3 school is ready to compete D1. 

The NCAA is far more concerned whether the school has the necessary resources to handle D-I membership from an administrative standpoint, rather than on the playing surface.

How do you know that?

Observation. Paying attention to how the NCAA actually works rather than how fans think it works. Stuff like that.

Right on, Pat.  You said it the best.

[OzJohnnie]

I've known about these developments for some time.

You Tommies have to get your story straight. Was this a planned exit or not?  I recommend you have an insiders pow-wow so that you can work out which story line you want to pursue: aggrieved victim of the losers or dastardly mastermind manipulating the losers into throwing you into that briar patch.