FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[formerd3db]

I would imagine since Esten came to U$T via Penn State, a Tommie/Nittany Lion non-conference football game is on the horizon.  What's the line on that, AO?

I tried putting that potential matchup into the Massey predictor tool and my computer started on fire.

You might have a point there, ROR. Still, it's pretty amazing what an empowered A&D firm can do with a historic old space to retro fit it for modern sports. That said, even if they had to demolish the site and rebuild something entirely new, it might be a very viable option. UST's issue is finding land and parking for a Hockey venue. The fair grounds are just a few miles down Snelling. If there was a partnership between UST and the State to build something like this, it would also alleviate some of the funding issues for both sides.

UST agrees to put up major dollars, in exchange for their branding and marketing (i.e. it gets to feel like their home ice). State agrees to help with some funding, in exchange for using it for HS & youth Hockey, as well as a concert venue and for State Fair activities.

Spitballing, the Giants and Jets have figured out how to share a stadium and still make it feel like a home field for each team. Wouldn't be that hard to replicate something along those lines for UST.

I don't think the state fair wants to host hockey anymore.  It'd only be about a million to update the ice making equipment.  They just like to use their coliseum for horse and car shows.

Great and very hilarious post! We are including you, AO, as a member of the DIII Levity Club.🙂

[miac952]

Other potential hockey location could be a renovation of the coliseum at the fair grounds. Hockey has been played there and it's due for some total re-work. Plenty of parking available and not as far from campus

Have you been inside the coliseum?  Would be an awful venue.

I think renovation is the operative phrase here.

Renovation and total re-work might have been a bit too open-ended. It's been a while since I've been there and I'm no expert so I left it open, but if a complete replacement and some sort of partnership is possible, it might not be a terrible option, compared to the logistical problems inherent in any of the other options.

Basketball arena could be expanded a bit, but if we ever hosted the Gophers for an OOC matchup, it would end up being waaaaaaay small. I guess it's possible to just play all those games in Minneapolis.

The horse show people will have something to say about a renovation.

There would have to be some sort of MASSIVE renovation with some fold back temporary sections to accommodate the expanded floor for the horsey shows and then roll-out the seats for hockey. Based on the condition of the facility though it may be cheaper to start from scratch. It wasnt really ever meant for hockey. It was literally built to be a barn for summer shows. Whatever the outside temp was in the winter, that was about how cold it was in the locker rooms and at ice level, with some modest help from space heaters that were probably illegal fire hazards.

There are other options in the interim. I don't know if the U of M would accommodate UST moving up at all, but they could rent Ridder out. Perfect size, great facility. Or contribute to some upgrades at Aldrich. Seating for almost 4,000. St Olaf built their new arena for $9 million. Yes...that St Olaf. You would have to factor in higher land costs and a slightly larger footprint, but guessing you could come in around $18-$20 million. The hard part is factoring in that, plus football stadium upgrades, plus basketball upgrades on one end of the gym, plus baseball. They'll have to bite off a little at a time. UST might also have to be more open to broader sponsorships too. They have nothing on their video boards, nothing in the basketball arena, etc. I know that is intentional and they like it that way, but it helps offset operating costs.

[johnnie_esq]

Other potential hockey location could be a renovation of the coliseum at the fair grounds. Hockey has been played there and it's due for some total re-work. Plenty of parking available and not as far from campus

Have you been inside the coliseum?  Would be an awful venue.

I think renovation is the operative phrase here.

Renovation and total re-work might have been a bit too open-ended. It's been a while since I've been there and I'm no expert so I left it open, but if a complete replacement and some sort of partnership is possible, it might not be a terrible option, compared to the logistical problems inherent in any of the other options.

Basketball arena could be expanded a bit, but if we ever hosted the Gophers for an OOC matchup, it would end up being waaaaaaay small. I guess it's possible to just play all those games in Minneapolis.

The horse show people will have something to say about a renovation.

Bingo as to the State Fair Coliseum.  I don't think the State Fair would give up their building for trade show/ag show purposes just so UST could make money in it.  And putting the icemaking stuff in it alone isn't enough to make UST a viable D-1 hockey program.

Aldrich is booked solid with high school and youth already.  It would take a lot of money to put in corporate amenities which would be necessary to make such a small rink work.  And it is on the other side of St. Paul.  Oscar Johnson would be the more likely location, but there is no parking and still far off campus.

Tria is way too small for D-1 hockey in the West.  Remember, in the current WCHA you travel between Alabama and Alaska, with stops in Ohio and Michigan (both upper and lower), and only two WCHA schools in MN.  That's a LOT of bus rides in and around Chicago or through nowheresville Wisconsin.   And the U of M will NOT allow one of only two women's-centered rinks in the country to become the home for St. Thomas's programs.   

On the other hand, UST could rent out Target Center for basketball since it is close to the Mpls campus and do the Marquette thing... That would make a pretty big splash quickly if they are successful.

[OzJohnnie]

Hey - Tommies three-peated as MIAC golf champions. I do recall a lot MIAC golf adulation from Johnnies in the past on here, so I think this meets their standards for topics we can discuss. In two years you can have the title back, with an asterisk by it.

Oh yeah, well the Bethel Women Golfers won the MIAC title this year: https://athletics.bethel.edu/sports/womens-golf

So, there!

The Twins got swept, the Lynx didn't make the playoffs, at least we have the Bethel Women Golfers to hang our hats on! If only we knew what was going to happen with UST hockey?

Like I said, the only Twins games that were broadcast down here are losses to the Yankees.

[miac952]

Are the Johnnies rolling in any temporary bleachers for Saturday's game? Or might the forecast temper crowds a bit?

[OzJohnnie]

You cannot best U$T running the ball.

Why would you say that? Bethel beat UST last year and had over 200 yards rushing and under 200 passing.

2018 Bethel vs U$T, Bethel threw 33 passes for 172 yards and ran the ball 38 times for 217 yards (46:54 run:pass ratio).
2019 Concordia vs U$T, Concordia threw 7 passes for 25 yards and ran the ball 43 times for 130 yards (14:86 run:pass ratio).

Though I know you feel the need to argue nearly every point, can we agree that Bethel used the run and pass to beat U$T in 2018? Do you think Bethel would have beat U$T if they would have only attempted 7 passes (and only completed 3 of them)?  To beat top teams, you need to be able to do both.  Even if one aspect of your offense outshines the other, both are necessary to beat a top ten opponent.  Faunch, feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted, but I believe that was the intent of your comment.

Correct Duffman..run only or focusing mainly on the run generally won't get it done. In understand the idea of ball control you've got to be able to love the ball. in 2019 and 18 SJU has ran for 70 yards against U$T....69 of them were gained last year and mostly in the fourth quarter.  Balance helps but to beat the D1 bound Tommie$ a team has to throw quick hitters and slant routes...find the single coverage and attack it. The run is set up by passing the ball early and effectively. Running the to edge is a waste of time...gotta go between the 3 and 4 holes and hope to pop a couple runs. Also doesn't hurt if U$T turns the ball ove once in awhile. If SJU had stuck to the 2019 game plan in 2018 i think they would have beaten U$T at Target field.

I don't agree with RoyalsFan that Bethel won by running it cobber style.

That said, Passing to set up the Run was SJU's gameplan (given your personel a wise move) vs. UST. Bethel's gameplan was very much run to set up the Pass. Both proved successful in 2019 against UST. I think they are both looking for balance running/passing. But there is some nuance in what is each team's fastball (SJU passing, Bethel rushing) and what is their offspeed pitch (SJU rushing, Bethel passing). This is owing in large part to who each team has under center and their respective strengths. To this point, I talked with Coach Petersen after UST and he acknowledged they challenged their receiving corps that they'd need to make some big plays against UST for us to win. It spoke to a) the running game being the major weapon and b) the realization that to win we'd need to make plays through the air as well and couldn't be one dimensional. Bethel ran effectively and also had some clutch catches in big spots .. end result was a Bethel victory.

To look at this from the other side, I'd wager Bethel's main goal defensively Saturday is to limit the damage Eerdman can do (no easy task) and try to force SJU to beat them on the ground. Conversely, I'm guessing SJU's defensive strategy will revolve around slowing Bethel's ground game (and neutralizing Roste as a runner, also no easy task), forcing Bethel/Roste to beat them through the air. The challenge for both teams (and to Faunch/Duffman's point) is that both SJU and Bethel have really good offspeed pitches as well (running and passing, respectively). Neither team is one dimensional. But both are especially lethal when they are throwing their respective fastball well.

I think pressure on Erdmann is the best way to put the Jays off.  He has too many receiving options to let him have time.  The best thing is to have a couple rushing animals so you don't need to blitz every down.  If you need to blitz to generate pressure then you also need to make yourself vulnerable to the long ball.  If you don't play tight in that situation then you'll get short passed all day.

I wonder how effective BU will be at running.  We are a bit vulnerable to the long ball.  If we need to crowd the line to stop the running then the backfield will open up a lot more than I like.

It's gonna be a heck of a game.  I've got a feeling that it won't be close.  We'll see a monkeystomp in one direction or the other and two groups of fans on extreme opposite emotions.  But no moral victories in this game I'm predicting.  Him's nervous.

[DuffMan]

Are the Johnnies rolling in any temporary bleachers for Saturday's game? Or might the forecast temper crowds a bit?

I think the weather will scare away a good number of fans.  Last weekend was pretty sparse, even though it was homecoming (yes, it was the Auggies, too--they brought about 17 fans along).

[johnnie_esq]

There are other options in the interim. I don't know if the U of M would accommodate UST moving up at all, but they could rent Ridder out. Perfect size, great facility. Or contribute to some upgrades at Aldrich. Seating for almost 4,000. St Olaf built their new arena for $9 million. Yes...that St Olaf. You would have to factor in higher land costs and a slightly larger footprint, but guessing you could come in around $18-$20 million. The hard part is factoring in that, plus football stadium upgrades, plus basketball upgrades on one end of the gym, plus baseball. They'll have to bite off a little at a time. UST might also have to be more open to broader sponsorships too. They have nothing on their video boards, nothing in the basketball arena, etc. I know that is intentional and they like it that way, but it helps offset operating costs.

St. Olaf was able to build it for less since it was inside an existing building so you didn't have to build new bricks and mortar or infrastructure and it only seats 800. 

You are going to need closer to 5000 seats in order to make the revenue work and be eligible for WCHA membership-- and more than that for the NCHC.  And to make the scholarship finances work you are going to need a significant amount of corporate contributions, meaning suite-type stuff which needs to be top-shelf construction in those spots.  A small rink would cost at least $50-60m I believe without counting land costs.  Remember Pegula Ice Arena at Penn State (which seats 6000 and had a practice rink and training facilities) was $88m, and it took Penn State a gift of $100m to make it happen-- and the only other D-1 hockey team in Pennsylvania, a state with two NHL teams, is tiny Robert Morris University-- and they still had to blow up the entire college hockey landscape to ensure the operating capital would cash flow over time.  UST can probably find the donors for the rink, and perhaps find the land somewhere, and still have donors available to fund upgrades for basketball and football and all their other sports, but can they put rears into the seats to watch the Toms take on Lake Superior State?  Because that is the calculation they have to do.   

[RoyalsFan]

You cannot best U$T running the ball.

Why would you say that? Bethel beat UST last year and had over 200 yards rushing and under 200 passing.

2018 Bethel vs U$T, Bethel threw 33 passes for 172 yards and ran the ball 38 times for 217 yards (46:54 run:pass ratio).
2019 Concordia vs U$T, Concordia threw 7 passes for 25 yards and ran the ball 43 times for 130 yards (14:86 run:pass ratio).

Though I know you feel the need to argue nearly every point, can we agree that Bethel used the run and pass to beat U$T in 2018? Do you think Bethel would have beat U$T if they would have only attempted 7 passes (and only completed 3 of them)?  To beat top teams, you need to be able to do both.  Even if one aspect of your offense outshines the other, both are necessary to beat a top ten opponent.  Faunch, feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted, but I believe that was the intent of your comment.

Sorry to point this out, but it was 54:46 run:pass ratio, not 46:54 (and that is not arguing, merely a fact).

I agree that you need both pass and run to beat a good team, but that's not the way I interpreted Faunch's comment. If he had stated you can't beat UST 'just' running the ball then I would agree, but the way it was stated to me it sounds like he meant you can't run the ball at all against UST, and that just isn't true. The fact is Bethel had more rushing yards than passing yards and still won. And I think it is hilarious when someone says 'yeah, but 90 of those rushing yards came on 1 play'. Yes, they did, but they were still rushing yards and you can't take them away. Even if you did, they still had over 100 yards rushing. A good rushing team can beat UST, period.

[DuffMan]

Sorry to point this out, but it was 54:46 run:pass ratio, not 46:54...

Yeah, I screwed that one up.  Still, they were near 1:1 run:pass. 

A good rushing team can beat UST, period.

Sure, they can, but I think they'd still need to throw more than 7 passes (as Concordia proved).

[RoyalsFan]

I don't agree with RoyalsFan that Bethel won by running it cobber style.

Just for the record, I never said Bethel beat UST by running it Cobber style. I said they beat UST by running the ball more than they passed. Why is that such a controversial statement?

[RoyalsFan]

Sorry to point this out, but it was 54:46 run:pass ratio, not 46:54...

Yeah, I screwed that one up.  Still, they were near 1:1 run:pass. 

A good rushing team can beat UST, period.

Sure, they can, but I think they'd still need to throw more than 7 passes (as Concordia proved).

And I have never said otherwise. Where are people getting the idea that I think a team that only runs the ball like the Cobbers could beat UST? I believe you need a good running game combined with a good passing game to beat UST (or any other good team) and I think we can all agree on that. You probably can't beat UST just throwing the ball either, but Faunch only mentioned running and I took it to mean you can't run at all against UST. Sorry if I'm not a mind reader. Being a computer programmer, I'm used to taking things literally.

[Retired Old Rat]

Are the Johnnies rolling in any temporary bleachers for Saturday's game? Or might the forecast temper crowds a bit?

I think the weather will scare away a good number of fans.  Last weekend was pretty sparse, even though it was homecoming (yes, it was the Auggies, too--they brought about 17 fans along).

I counted. There were 27 people in the visitor's stands. I think it is safe to say Bethel will top that.

Weather will really hold down attendance. Plenty of seats for everyone.

[jamtod]

Sorry to point this out, but it was 54:46 run:pass ratio, not 46:54...

Yeah, I screwed that one up.  Still, they were near 1:1 run:pass. 

A good rushing team can beat UST, period.

Sure, they can, but I think they'd still need to throw more than 7 passes (as Concordia proved).

And I have never said otherwise. Where are people getting the idea that I think a team that only runs the ball like the Cobbers could beat UST? I believe you need a good running game combined with a good passing game to beat UST (or any other good team) and I think we can all agree on that. You probably can't beat UST just throwing the ball either, but Faunch only mentioned running and I took it to mean you can't run at all against UST. Sorry if I'm not a mind reader. Being a computer programmer, I'm used to taking things literally.

SJU pretty much did it last year, and came darn close (1 rushing yard) the previous year at Target Field.

Hopefully our pass defense is shored up a bit this year or it's going to be a rough time with SJU, Bethel, and Gustavus again.

[miac952]

Based on the Target Field game, I think SJU said to hell with the run. That's oversimplifying it a bit, but that is more or less when they'd discovered what they really had in Erdmann. The hard part of scheming him and the current system is that he has a pretty quick internal clock and is really instinctual. You need really physical and athletic corners that play well on an island. And, you need to be able to get home with 4-5 guys, because when you send more on a blitz he finds soft spots on quick routes where the blitz comes from. He caused MHB fits last year, which speaks to the difficulty for a defense. The personnel around him may not be quite as good, but nevertheless, it's a challenge