FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OzJohnnie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apa0nG1OfUc

[hazzben]

Just to clairy, I'm not trying to keep lesser conferences out of the tournament. When CSS had some of their relatively speaking great teams, I thought they had every business being in the tournament. And I wasn't one bit surprised when they got triple monkey stomped in round one. Martin Luther's turnaround story is really cool, and they've earned a spot in the post-season this year. But having some mechanism that recognizes "hey, that team is only .500, reps a conference that hasn't won a postseason game in 10 years, and they've done nothing to earn a berth this year" seems like a reasonable idea. Exclusion of these teams shouldn't be the norm, but a rare mechanism in place to keep teams that aren't very good out of the tournament, in place of much more deserving teams.

I agree with your overall point - but I'm not sure I'd go with the conference's postseason history, and I don't feel like that fits with D3. But I think something like a 4th D3 loss on the year means that you and your conference's auto bid gets placed into the Pool C consideration. This year that would likely be Bethel or NCC getting a '6th' Pool C and SUNY staying home. A 4+ loss AQ will be very rare. I'd suggest 3rd loss...but I don't want to discourage scheduling tough non-conference games too much.

That could work. Maybe with the caveat that if the team has 2 games vRRO or 1 W vRRO then they are in. Basically doesn't discourage teams from seeking out tough non-con games. I don't think there's any chance it could happen. Getting a SOS formula that actually, you know, measures SOS, is probably a much more realistic goal.

[hazzben]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apa0nG1OfUc

Jimmy's DOWN!! 

[Ice Bear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apa0nG1OfUc

Jimmy's DOWN!! 

Ice Bear says this was one of his all time favorites, +k

"...Jimmy was like you."

[DuffMan]

Duffman always wanted a pair of shoes like Jimmy.

[sjusection105]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apa0nG1OfUc

Jimmy's DOWN!! 

Ice Bear says this was one of his all time favorites, +k

"...Jimmy was like you."

Is Ice Bear familiar with Red Tackle, former standout player for RPI?

[Ice Bear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apa0nG1OfUc

Jimmy's DOWN!! 

Ice Bear says this was one of his all time favorites, +k

"...Jimmy was like you."

Is Ice Bear familiar with Red Tackle, former standout player for RPI?

Ice Bear used to enjoy banter with SRT on the old LLPP...Ice was coming around towards the end of SRT's posting.

[DuffMan]

Red Tackle and EngiNegro were two of my all-time favorite RPI posters! 

[TheChucker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apa0nG1OfUc

That clip already made my day this Friday morning!

[SJUrube]

Wesley and Redlands are locks and I don't see a logical way around that, unless either lose.  Redlands is playing winless Occidental and hasn't struggled at all with their lesser competition, so that isn't happening.  Wesley likes to make things interesting and CNU seems to be playing a little better so maybe?  But let's just assume not.  So you've got:

1-loss MIAC (Bethel)
1-loss ARC (Wartburg)
1-loss CCIW (North Central)
1-loss OAC (John Carroll)
1-loss CC (Susquehanna)

They can't all go forward next week.  And they're all saying "there's no way a 1-loss team from ___ gets left out."  Somebody has to get left out.

Wally makes a good point, assuming everyone holds serve this weekend a quality 1-loss team is getting left out. I added the teams from each league in bold.

With Bethel currently being the one on the outside looking in it brought me back to the off season and some of the hand wringing about the hit the MIAC would take with UST involuntarily removing themselves from the league in 2021. Here we are in the fall of 2019, they are still a member, and if things play out the way we expect the MIAC is only going to end up with just a single team in the playoffs.

[TheChucker]

I'm sure there is some history of some pretty garbage W-L records getting in as AQs in the past? There are plenty of examples from March Madness.

Just to clairy, I'm not trying to keep lesser conferences out of the tournament. When CSS had some of their relatively speaking great teams, I thought they had every business being in the tournament. And I wasn't one bit surprised when they got triple monkey stomped in round one. Martin Luther's turnaround story is really cool, and they've earned a spot in the post-season this year. But having some mechanism that recognizes "hey, that team is only .500, reps a conference that hasn't won a postseason game in 10 years, and they've done nothing to earn a berth this year" seems like a reasonable idea. Exclusion of these teams shouldn't be the norm, but a rare mechanism in place to keep teams that aren't very good out of the tournament, in place of much more deserving teams.

I agree with your overall point - but I'm not sure I'd go with the conference's postseason history, and I don't feel like that fits with D3. But I think something like a 4th D3 loss on the year means that you and your conference's auto bid gets placed into the Pool C consideration. This year that would likely be Bethel or NCC getting a '6th' Pool C and SUNY staying home. A 4+ loss AQ will be very rare. I'd suggest 3rd loss...but I don't want to discourage scheduling tough non-conference games too much.

Playoff competitiveness is a tough issue I'm sure the NCAA D3 leadership must chew on every year. I don't know if placing a won-loss limit on the automatic bid would work though. Non-conference schedules would definitely get gamed for the worse. A playoff contender would NEVER want to play a good team in non-con and lower tier conference contenders would NEVER play teams from tougher conferences. You would absolutely never see a Concordia type playing two top WIAC teams in a year.

It seems like the only permanent solution would be to split D3 different divisions, at least for playoffs. But it sounds like that was addressed a decade ago and didn't fly. Meanwhile, the huge disparity between top and bottom teams in D3 stays large.

2018 Playoffs 1st Round Games
Division 3
Average score 44-10
Average differential 34 points
# of wins over four scores (>27) = 8
# of games = 16

Division 2
Average score 37-19
Average differential 18 points
# of wins over four scores (>27) = 3
# of games = 16* (12 opening round then 4 top seed games)

FCS
Average score 34-16
Average differential 18 points
# of wins over four scores (>27) = 3
# of games = 16* (8 opening round then 8 top seed games)

Note: the difference between top and bottom FCS is very big too. If teams like NDSU and SDSU were playing the bottom seeds in the first round, instead of having a bye, I bet the monkey stomps would be common there too.

[57Johnnie]

Red Tackle and EngiNegro were two of my all-time favorite RPI posters! 

The best ever....... Including Monkey Stomp! 

[hazzben]

Wesley and Redlands are locks and I don't see a logical way around that, unless either lose.  Redlands is playing winless Occidental and hasn't struggled at all with their lesser competition, so that isn't happening.  Wesley likes to make things interesting and CNU seems to be playing a little better so maybe?  But let's just assume not.  So you've got:

1-loss MIAC (Bethel)
1-loss ARC (Wartburg)
1-loss CCIW (North Central)
1-loss OAC (John Carroll)
1-loss CC (Susquehanna)

They can't all go forward next week.  And they're all saying "there's no way a 1-loss team from ___ gets left out."  Somebody has to get left out.

Wally makes a good point, assuming everyone holds serve this weekend a quality 1-loss team is getting left out. I added the teams from each league in bold.

With Bethel currently being the one on the outside looking in it brought me back to the off season and some of the hand wringing about the hit the MIAC would take with UST involuntarily removing themselves from the league in 2021. Here we are in the fall of 2019, they are still a member, and if things play out the way we expect the MIAC is only going to end up with just a single team in the playoffs.

It also speaks to the quandary of letting Mac back in.
On the one hand, they are going to dilute the league, swapping UST for Mac isn't getting anyone closer to being a better program or more likely Pool C candidate. No Mac and you can go out and schedule a quality non-con to replace UST. You can even game the system a little. I.e. try to schedule/predict teams that will be top 3 in a middling to bad conference or teams from power conferences to help your SOS.
On the other hand, for top programs who already have a hard time finding Non-con opponents, finding 3 non-con games every year won't be easy.

It's complicated by the fact some programs would love to have MAC back, because it's a chance for a win, and having the most competitive league or schedule each season is not a concern of theirs (Carleton, Hamline, Augsburg, etc.). For others (Bethel, SJU, Cobbers, GAC, St. Olaf), it's the last team we'd want to play. After two weeks against Hamline (who somehow beat MAC) and Augsburg, the last thing I want to watch is another game like that. The talent gap is so ridiculously wide right now, and only getting wider. Bethel could have easily scored 100 pts against Hamline. My biggest concern going into UST is that we've had two weeks of essentially JV games leading up to a really good UST team.

[MiacMan]

It is really hard to believe that with all of the talk earlier in the season about the MIAC being the best conference and potentially 3 top ten teams, that the MIAC is going to have a Co-Champion that likely won't make the playoffs? I just have to believe that if Bethel wins tomorrow they will get in some way some how.

[DuffMan]

Hazzben, not a lot of love for your Royals in Quick Hits.

I also have to chuckle at #62 grabbing his junk in the background.