FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[johnnie_esq]

If I want to watch a game in such an environment, I will go to a place a lot closer to home, where the tailgating is better,

OK j-esq, I had my smite pistol out on this one, but it is now safely holstered. 

Instead, +k's around in hopes that the finsleft luxury suite does not meet up with the wrecking ball.

I meant that the administration actually encourages tailgating.  I feel like a felon desiring to {gasp} grab a brat before a SJU game.

In their minds we perhaps are taking away from concessions revenue.

[BDB]

I figured you meant something like that.



Now, if they were selling Hamm's inside the gates they might actually have a point.

[AO]

Word on the streets ... defensive back Nate Anderson will not be returning to the Johnnies.  (Yes, he got his degree.  And a good job.  This isn't D-1.  )

Tmerts,

Once the degree is in hand the eligibility is exhausted per MIAC rules.  There are a variety of reasons for this with the major reason being the lack of post-graduate academic programs that would enable a graduate to be a full-time student.

I have attached Frank's article that will run in tomorrow's SCTimes regarding the remodel/expansion of the Clemens Stadium pressbox/suites. 

http://www.sctimes.com/article/20090512/NEWS01/105120059/SJU+plans+to+expand+luxury+suite+offerings

I know that UST tried to get that rule changed a few years ago.  Would have been a major disadvantage to Carleton, Macalester, Gustavus et al.  But hey, in Bethel and SJU's case, it may have upped enrollment at the seminaries!  

I have to say I hate the idea of an expanded suite area. Apparently the Benedictine value of Simplicity does not apply to athletics.  The field is not-so-slowly losing the "natural" feel when the bleachers are metal, the grass is plastic and there are suites to keep the high-rollers from intermingling with us low-lifes.  If I want to watch a game in such an environment, I will go to a place a lot closer to home, where the tailgating is better, and I stand a chance of seeing a Rose Bowl team (though likely not the home one).

Wouldn't the benedictine value of simplicity also apply to the Saint John's Bible?   I'd guess it probably doesn't apply to either one.  Then again, if Notre Dame can support abortions, then St. John's is probably going to stray from their catholic values a bit too.

I think it's pretty awesome a d-3 team is buidling luxury boxes, but if I were in charge I'd take out the track and move the field closer to the stands.  Everybody benefits that way.  When's the last time they had 10,000 for a track meet at clemens?  

How amazing does TCF bank stadium look?!!  Looks like they're about ready to put in the field.

[OzJohnnie]

...there are suites to keep the high-rollers from intermingling with us low-lifes.

This was a nagging issue for me as well.  Could it be that the administration has been blinded by the glory of "Johnnie Magic" and have forgotten what creates it?  Step by little step things are done that individually are not unreasonable, but in combination turn "Johnnie Magic" into "Johnnie Corporate."  It can be argued, and surely is, that St John's would be foolish not to cash in on their unique and valuable position, but nothing happens in a vacuum.

Now, Johnnie Corporate will still get plenty of support and continue to be successful, but Corporate is not Magic, is it?  The magic in the Sweet Season was not that SJU was a DIII program with all that big-time trappings, but, as per the book's sub-title, it enabled Austin Murphy to rediscover football, family, and a bit of Faith at Minnesota's St. John's University.  That rediscovery didn't happen in a donors' luxury suite, and it's a good question to wonder if that re-discovery could happen at all if Murphy had found Johnnie Corporate instead of Johnnie Magic.

So, it is with a bit of interest and a bit of trepidation that I return to the Johnnie/Tommie game this year.  I have not attended a Johnnie game since the Johnnie/Tommie game in '93.  I wonder how much the mood will have changed from what I last experienced.

--

As an afterthought, what happens post-Gagliardi regarding Johnnie Magic?  Certainly, the magic is a large (whole?) part due to the man.  Does this latest development, particularly coupled with other developments over the years, mean that the administration does not (whether an intentional decision or not) hope (or believe it can) to preserve the magic in after Gagliardi finally retires?  It's a difficult decision, no doubt.  Go for the Magic and fail, then what is SJU left with?  A shattered skeleton of a former program, undistinguished from any other DIII program in the country.  Go for corporate and lose the Magic?  At least a flourishing bottom line and the resources are available to continue a successful program, even if the Magic is gone (and SJU players may one day need weight room etiquette training as well).

So, yes, I can see why Johnnie Corporate is a good bet.  But to do it at the risk of the Magic?  I'm not convinced that's the right decision, even if it's the smart one.

[finsleft]

Well put, Oz!

AO, Wow! Notre Dame supports abortions? I guess if listening to divergent opinions=support, you must be right.

BDB-+k, as always, for the Wally pic and Hamm's reference.

Mr. President- I pick May 26, if this team doesn't kill me 1st. Was there last night and experienced numerous mini-cardiac arrests.

1st Celebrity Dies of Swine Flu

[OzJohnnie]

Wouldn't the benedictine value of simplicity also apply to the Saint John's Bible?   I'd guess it probably doesn't apply to either one.  Then again, if Notre Dame can support abortions, then St. John's is probably going to stray from their catholic values a bit too.

Yes, writing a new Bible (with an ambition toward great beauty, achievable only through years of dedication and selfless service) is morally equivalent to abortion.  Your statement is stupid, juvenile and offensive.  I recommend that you review the teachings of your own institution and see what they have to say about grace and charity.  In a bid to appear clever, you demonstrate the need for a refresher on the basics.

[johnnie_esq]

Wouldn't the benedictine value of simplicity also apply to the Saint John's Bible?   I'd guess it probably doesn't apply to either one.  Then again, if Notre Dame can support abortions, then St. John's is probably going to stray from their catholic values a bit too.

Think about that for a second-- rewriting a several thousand year old book, consisting of several hundred pages, with each word painstakingly drafted by hand, (instead of more modern presses) on original vellum (even though paper is likely a better writing instrument), as a demonstration of faith and as a gift for eternity.  If that doesn't define simplicity and ora et labora, I don't know what does.

And the Notre Dame bash was pretty low and possibly uninformed.  I am no defender of the Golden Domers (I talk about SJU selling out, but ND takes the cake!), but I actually think they are being far more mature about this whole thing than their detractors.  If Ex Corde Ecclesiae is ever going to work in this country, the Catholic Bishops' interpretation must hold.  And what is occurring here is a radical interpretation of that doctrine that would prevent ANY non-line-toeing Catholic from ever stepping on any Catholic college campus.  And that would mean you, AO, as you chose to attend a non-Catholic college.

[BDB]

Must be nice to be smart and eloquent like you guys.

After beer, babes and hockey I got nothin' left. 

[finsleft]

Well the Twins are making it interesting again today.

[AO]

Wouldn't the benedictine value of simplicity also apply to the Saint John's Bible?   I'd guess it probably doesn't apply to either one.  Then again, if Notre Dame can support abortions, then St. John's is probably going to stray from their catholic values a bit too.

Yes, writing a new Bible (with an ambition toward great beauty, achievable only through years of dedication and selfless service) is morally equivalent to abortion.  Your statement is stupid, juvenile and offensive.  I recommend that you review the teachings of your own institution and see what they have to say about grace and charity.  In a bid to appear clever, you demonstrate the need for a refresher on the basics.

I'm echoing what 71 Catholic bishops — including two cardinals have said about Mr. Obama's position on abortion.   If my positions are the offensive ones, I'm sorry.   In this case my positions do back St. John's in regards to the very cool bible and the luxury boxes and do not back Notre Dame in listening to a man who holds some of the most radical, baby-killing, opinions possible.

[johnnie_esq]

As an afterthought, what happens post-Gagliardi regarding Johnnie Magic?  Certainly, the magic is a large (whole?) part due to the man.  Does this latest development, particularly coupled with other developments over the years, mean that the administration does not (whether an intentional decision or not) hope (or believe it can) to preserve the magic in after Gagliardi finally retires?  It's a difficult decision, no doubt.  Go for the Magic and fail, then what is SJU left with?  A shattered skeleton of a former program, undistinguished from any other DIII program in the country.  Go for corporate and lose the Magic?  At least a flourishing bottom line and the resources are available to continue a successful program, even if the Magic is gone (and SJU players may one day need weight room etiquette training as well).

So, yes, I can see why Johnnie Corporate is a good bet.  But to do it at the risk of the Magic?  I'm not convinced that's the right decision, even if it's the smart one.

The Man cannot die.  His legend will live on.  I can see it now:  "Get your Gagliardi Funeral Tickets here!"  and "Buy a flower here to place on John's grave".  Ugh.

AO, I like your idea of taking out the track to make the sightlines better, but such a move would further detract from the history of the place.  The place was originally designed as a knock-off of Archibold Stadium and the Palmer Stadium-- in a natural, northwoods environment.  These were Greek-inspired athletic facilities, which required (in the nature of the olympics to keep a track) What with the library being built in the 1960s and the recent renovations, it retains little of this original design-- instead, the removal of all the fieldstone and clear-cutting of trees , combined with the modern, nondescript exterior of the Spectrum, have completely removed the Greek ideal found in the other stadiums of the Ivy League.  But hey, we don't want to be compared to them anyway.

[BDB]

Well the Twins are making it interesting again today.

6 runs in the 7th to take a 6-5 lead. Me likey!   8)

[johnnie_esq]

Wouldn't the benedictine value of simplicity also apply to the Saint John's Bible?   I'd guess it probably doesn't apply to either one.  Then again, if Notre Dame can support abortions, then St. John's is probably going to stray from their catholic values a bit too.

Yes, writing a new Bible (with an ambition toward great beauty, achievable only through years of dedication and selfless service) is morally equivalent to abortion.  Your statement is stupid, juvenile and offensive.  I recommend that you review the teachings of your own institution and see what they have to say about grace and charity.  In a bid to appear clever, you demonstrate the need for a refresher on the basics.

I'm echoing what 71 Catholic bishops — including two cardinals have said about Mr. Obama's position on abortion.   If my positions are the offensive ones, I'm sorry.   In this case my positions do back St. John's in regards to the very cool bible and the luxury boxes and do not back Notre Dame in listening to a man who holds some of the most radical, baby-killing, opinions possible.

What is great about the Catholic church is that 71 bishops don't make the law.  I have pushed the issue on one of those 71 personally, and when I did, the offensive part was that Notre Dame was awarding him an "honorary degree".  Fine, so don't award him the degree.  But cut the BS about the speaking then.  Talk about politics and religion intermixing!

The odd thing here is that the people who appear to be having problems with opinions are the ones saying Notre Dame should rescind the offer to have the President speak.

As a side note closer to home, did anybody catch the Tommy Award winner's speech at their graduation a few years ago?  He waxed eloquently about Catholic doctrine and was promptly booed by his fellow graduates.  

[OzJohnnie]

If Ex Corde Ecclesiae is ever going to work in this country, the Catholic Bishops' interpretation must hold.  And what is occurring here is a radical interpretation of that doctrine that would prevent ANY non-line-toeing Catholic from ever stepping on any Catholic college campus.

I won't post on this again, but I do want to clarify the Bishops' position.  It is that, as per a long standing instruction that ND was aware of, Obama should not receive an honorary degree.  As to whether he should speak or not, that is an institutional decision and the Bishops have not, as a matter of policy, disputed ND's decision in that regard, although many people have been vocal on that as well.  The muddling of these various issues into a general "uncharitable people hate Obama" meme has not reflected well on the Bishops, even if it is an unfair characterization of their position.  Their position is most definitely NOT that non-Catholics should be prevented entry to Catholic institutions.  It is that those who "act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles" should not be awarded honors by Catholic institutions.  That, certainly, is not an unreasonable position, no?

Now, as to a commencement speech being a teaching moment, that too has been muddled into a freedom of speech question.  Certainly, a commencement speech can be about anything legally, but it is appropriate for it to be a teaching moment?  Students just spent a number of years in teaching moments - couldn't they find a diversity of opinion there?  Isn't the purpose of a commencement to celebrate graduation?

Anyway, that's all I've got to say on that (as Forrest Gump would say).

[AO]

Does the honorary degree really matter either?  I'd say it's much more an opportunity to make an argument against theological or moral drift.