FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[tmerton]

Robert Zimmerman's Scrapbook. 8)

[WashedUp]

I'll try to balance that Johnnie addition out a little here.  IMO, the only award winner that wasn't deserving last year was Winford.  If anyone off of Augsburg deserved the MVP it was definitely Berg.

[TC]

Regarding the Wimmer/Ziller discussion as a whole, it's really dangerous to compare D3 stats between players on different teams for a number of reasons:  there is a huge discrepency between talent levels of opposing teams, such a short schedule (amplifying the first issue), different playing styles (and some teams that are virtually incapable of passing the ball), talent discrepencies between teams of the players in question (i.e., Ziller was by far the most talented player for Carleton, but would be one of many talented defenders on another MIAC team), etc.

For example, last year's Knights' non-conference opponents were Cornell (0-10, 0-8 in the IIAC) and Macalester (not good at football)--meaning 20% of their schedule was made up of pretty laughable competition.  (Ziller had 2 forced fumbles against Cornell and led the team with 9 tackles against Mac while forcing and recovering a fumble).

Also, Ziller had a lot of opportunities for tackles last season that he wouldn't have had if he had Nick Gunderson on the defensive line and Ryan Wimmer at linebacker.  The fact that he (presumably) had inferior talent around him means he will have more opportunities to make plays. 

In many seasons, St. John's  top defenders might only play a handful of full games prior to the postseason (in 2003, for example, the Johnnies won 5 of their regular season games by 39 or more points and backups saw a ton of playing time).  That situation is much less common for a team like Carleton.

Conversely, St. John's defensive players never need to face the St. John's offense in a game (save your jokes about how they could have padded their stats against the 2008 Johnnies...).  And a stud defender from Carleton never gets a chance to take on the (typically) weaker Knight offense, though that also didn't have a huge effect last season.

That's a ridiculously long winded way of saying that coaches who persumably watch each team at least a few times on film probably have a much more educated opinion of players on other teams than fans who likely only see opposing players once and then without the benefit of film (or video or holograms or whatever isn't going to get 87897654564324897 condescending posts about how they use film or video or holograms or whatever now).  If the coaches think Ziller was a better player than Wimmer last year, I tend to agree.  I certainly don't think it is a question that can be answered just by looking at stats.

For what it's worth, I didn't think Wimmer was anything special last year.  That's not a shot a VOJ's great football mind as he undoubtedly watched him much more closely and more often than I did.  I just don't think a player is automatically better because he wears a red jersey.

And talk of a team winning a conference title or the last million games against another team having an impact on an individual award is just as silly as the retards who aren't going to vote for Joe Mauer for MVP because he's had to haul the worthless carcasses of Nick Punto, Matt Tolbert, Delmon Young, Alexi Casilla and Armando Gabino, et. al, into playoff contention singlehandedly or Zack Greinke for Cy Young because the Royals extended their streak of fielding a minor league lineup into a third decade.

SJU's defense is currently the 8th best in a nine-team conference, allowing nearly 400 yards a game through three contests. The Johnnies have allowed the most rushing yards in the league and are the second-worst pass defense in the MIAC. Call me crazy, but I doubt you'll be seeing any defensive all-americans this year.

Talk like this is even sillier.  What the St. John's defense has done against reasonably competent offenses like UW-River Falls, UW-Eau Claire and Concordia compared to what Hamline has done against Martin Luther and Gustavus doesn't tell us a whole lot, does it?  I mean, we can agree that St. John's has a better defense than Hamline, right?

Plus, it's sorta dishonest to say that St. John's has allowed the most rushing yards without mentioning that they are one of only 4 conference teams to play 3 games so far, one of those games was against Concordia and another was against the first-team all-WIAC RB from a year ago, and they have faced the most rushing attempts.

I have a hard time drawing the conclusion that the Johnnies can't have any good defensive players from their stats so far this season, especially with how small of a sample those stats are drawing from.

[Willy Wonka]

A good take, TC, and I'll admit that I played dirty with the rushing stats. That should have made it easily refuted by anyone willing to do the legwork. Apparently the Johnnies are all willing to spout off without checking the facts, 'cept you

As for Haugen...winning can cure a lot of ills. I've been a critic of the hiring process and his decision to scrap the old offense for a variety of reasons. My main issue is simple — I don't think you can convert to a dramatically different offense and still have a successful season. I mean, ask Rich Rod how that went last fall for the maize and blue.

I fully expect the lack of quality bodies/experience at FB and TE to cripple a struggling offense this weekend when the Johnnies come to town. I mean, the Gusties scored 30 points last week against Hamline...but one touchdown came on a blocked punt and another came off a pass that ricocheted off the hands of one player and a helmet of another. The GW touchdown sounds like it came on a defensive breakdown from the Pipes. I love winning, but some better efficiency will be needed if Wonka is going to be singing the Gustie rouser on Saturday.

And while I'm looking at the stats...the Tommies currently have the best offense and best defense in terms of points scored and points allowed. They probably have the best kick returner in the conference, too. Could be a doozy up in Collegeville later this year...

[OzJohnnie]

A good take, TC, and I'll admit that I played dirty with the rushing stats. That should have made it easily refuted by anyone willing to do the legwork. Apparently the Johnnies are all willing to spout off without checking the facts, 'cept you

Interesting.  You openly admit to knowing what you post is wrong and that you "play dirty" yet it is the Johnnies that "spout off without checking the facts."  It's not enough for us to back up what we say, but we must double check everything you say since is intentionally misleading?  Oops, sorry.  I should have said well within the excepted rules when you "play dirty."

You want to know what I really think?  I think you had no idea that you were "playing dirty" until TC pointed it out, and rather than look ignorant of the things you spout off, you instead find better comfort in being knowledgeable but untrustworthy.  If I'm correct in my supposition, then that is very interesting indeed.

And while I'm looking at the stats...the Tommies currently have the best offense and best defense in terms of points scored and points allowed. They probably have the best kick returner in the conference, too. Could be a doozy up in Collegeville later this year...

Given the satisfaction you find in misleading with your statistical references, should we bother considering the Tommies' performance before hitting the MIAC website ourselves to see if the scoring stats your reference are correct?

[TC]

And while I'm looking at the stats...the Tommies currently have the best offense and best defense in terms of points scored and points allowed. They probably have the best kick returner in the conference, too. Could be a doozy up in Collegeville later this year...

It should be pointed out that, while some conference teams have played schools like Willamette and Wheaton already this year, St. Thomas has a played a full half of their season thus far against Macalester.  That tends to skew the numbers somewhat.  And, oh yeah, they lead in scoring offense by a half a point per game and are tied with noted defensive powerhouse Hamline in scoring defense.

That said, I fully expect St. Thomas to beat St. John's by multiple scores this year.

Edited:  A step ahead of you, Oz.  And I do believe that WW knew what he was doing with his original post--you could tell by the wording he used.

[sjusection105]

Is it going to rain in Saint Peter on Saturday?

30% chance on Saturday, it wouldn't hurt to pack some NoCal rain gear.

Are you attending the 'Niners vs. Vikings game on Sunday?

[OzJohnnie]

I hereby declare I will not return to the WIAC board for at least four weeks.  I get too damn ornery.

[BDB]

I hereby declare I will not return to the WIAC board for at least four weeks 1 hour.  I get too damn ornery.

Here Oz, I fixed it for you. 

[tmerton]

Is it going to rain in Saint Peter on Saturday?

30% chance on Saturday, it wouldn't hurt to pack some NoCal rain gear.

Are you attending the 'Niners vs. Vikings game on Sunday?

I should have checked the NFL schedule before making my reservations.  I expect it to be a good game but the Niners' limitations at key positions (e.g., QB) will likely do them in.  I'll record and watch when I get home.

[cobbernation]

TC,

UST by multiple scores over SJU this year?  You must be joking!  

Every time I played or watched a game at Hamline it was difficult to win easily.  Hamline is a different team and don't be surprised if UST goes into this weekend's game and lays an egg!  You heard it here first!

Looking forward to the game tomorrow in Arden Hills.  Any BU posters going to be at the game?

[DuffMan]

"Hamline" and "difficult to win easily" are not two statements I have ever uttered.  During my 4 years at SJU, we outscored the Pipers 187-3 

(Honestly, that is hard to comprehend!)

[Retired Old Rat]

What do you expect the Johnnies game plan to be tomorrow?  With all the injuries on defense and what should be physical superiority of the defensive line, I would pound the ball on the ground at GAC to keep our defense off the field.

[57Johnnie]

I'd like to know who really thinks Duffman will drink Zima before Wonka grows a pair or TDT gets a date
8)

[VOJ]

Hey 57 - Can you go over to the Fat Tire Brewery and ask them to lower their prices so I don't have to take out a loan to purchase their fine product?

I'm about 350 miles from Ft. Collins so think I'll decline. Around here it's priced the same as Corona and much less than Avalanche so 'case closed'  8)
Since we can't get Leinies Octoberfest we will have Fat Tire on tap at our Octoberfest on the 3rd. 

I know its not a "German" based product but you could always buy Sam Adams Light...or Smith Wick...quality brew all the way around...