FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[DuffMan]

In regards to the poll, even if I wanted to, it'd be difficult for me to drink a Zima since they quit making it last October 

[Willy Wonka]

Wonka, where is the rest of the GAC crew on here?  It's no fun trading barbs with just you.

Frank Rickard is watching an amazing episode of Maury right now. Mongo has been MIA for months. I couldn't even lure him away from his ball-and-chain with an offer of free golf this summer...

Sadly, that's all we have to offer right now. At least until Hoag's spectacular blog starts rolling!

[WashedUp]

Regarding the Wimmer/Ziller discussion as a whole, it's really dangerous to compare D3 stats between players on different teams for a number of reasons:  there is a huge discrepency between talent levels of opposing teams, such a short schedule (amplifying the first issue), different playing styles (and some teams that are virtually incapable of passing the ball), talent discrepencies between teams of the players in question (i.e., Ziller was by far the most talented player for Carleton, but would be one of many talented defenders on another MIAC team), etc.

For example, last year's Knights' non-conference opponents were Cornell (0-10, 0-8 in the IIAC) and Macalester (not good at football)--meaning 20% of their schedule was made up of pretty laughable competition.  (Ziller had 2 forced fumbles against Cornell and led the team with 9 tackles against Mac while forcing and recovering a fumble).

Also, Ziller had a lot of opportunities for tackles last season that he wouldn't have had if he had Nick Gunderson on the defensive line and Ryan Wimmer at linebacker.  The fact that he (presumably) had inferior talent around him means he will have more opportunities to make plays. 

In many seasons, St. John's  top defenders might only play a handful of full games prior to the postseason (in 2003, for example, the Johnnies won 5 of their regular season games by 39 or more points and backups saw a ton of playing time).  That situation is much less common for a team like Carleton.

Conversely, St. John's defensive players never need to face the St. John's offense in a game (save your jokes about how they could have padded their stats against the 2008 Johnnies...).  And a stud defender from Carleton never gets a chance to take on the (typically) weaker Knight offense, though that also didn't have a huge effect last season.

That's a ridiculously long winded way of saying that coaches who persumably watch each team at least a few times on film probably have a much more educated opinion of players on other teams than fans who likely only see opposing players once and then without the benefit of film (or video or holograms or whatever isn't going to get 87897654564324897 condescending posts about how they use film or video or holograms or whatever now).  If the coaches think Ziller was a better player than Wimmer last year, I tend to agree.  I certainly don't think it is a question that can be answered just by looking at stats.

For what it's worth, I didn't think Wimmer was anything special last year.  That's not a shot a VOJ's great football mind as he undoubtedly watched him much more closely and more often than I did.  I just don't think a player is automatically better because he wears a red jersey.

And talk of a team winning a conference title or the last million games against another team having an impact on an individual award is just as silly as the retards who aren't going to vote for Joe Mauer for MVP because he's had to haul the worthless carcasses of Nick Punto, Matt Tolbert, Delmon Young, Alexi Casilla and Armando Gabino, et. al, into playoff contention singlehandedly or Zack Greinke for Cy Young because the Royals extended their streak of fielding a minor league lineup into a third decade.

SJU's defense is currently the 8th best in a nine-team conference, allowing nearly 400 yards a game through three contests. The Johnnies have allowed the most rushing yards in the league and are the second-worst pass defense in the MIAC. Call me crazy, but I doubt you'll be seeing any defensive all-americans this year.

Talk like this is even sillier.  What the St. John's defense has done against reasonably competent offenses like UW-River Falls, UW-Eau Claire and Concordia compared to what Hamline has done against Martin Luther and Gustavus doesn't tell us a whole lot, does it?  I mean, we can agree that St. John's has a better defense than Hamline, right?

Plus, it's sorta dishonest to say that St. John's has allowed the most rushing yards without mentioning that they are one of only 4 conference teams to play 3 games so far, one of those games was against Concordia and another was against the first-team all-WIAC RB from a year ago, and they have faced the most rushing attempts.

I have a hard time drawing the conclusion that the Johnnies can't have any good defensive players from their stats so far this season, especially with how small of a sample those stats are drawing from.

ou know what the funniest thing about this discussion is...

The MIAC doesn't award a DPOY.  So the fact that VOJ thought Ziller got the defensive player of the year over Wimmer must mean that he knows deep inside that Ziller was a better player than him.

Last comment about this and then I'll drop it...

I don't agree with all you say but the main things are...

-(typically) weak Knight offense, Carleton had the #1 offense in the MIAC last year (though everyone still somehow thought Auggie Tech's was better), OK I just went back and read your post and you said that wasn't a factor last year

-the Johnnies did not blow out many (any?) opponents last year, so Wimmer did play pretty much the whole game in every game, and he did not have Gunderson in front of him last year

-by far the most talented on last years Carleton team?  They had 2 great receivers and the best quarterback in the MIAC.  That being said, Ziller was still the most talented.

-And as far as non-conference goes...Ziller lead the MIAC in-conference in tackles as well

But it really doesn't matter, Wimmer's a good linebacker and no one has said anything to the contrary.

The award was through College Sporting News, Mapping the MIAC by Rich Mies...and I will stick by my original point, someone had to make tackles, it just happened to be Ziller the last line of defense before lining up for the extra point...I am not saying he is/was not a good player, but on the statisticly worst D in the league AND in a mediocre year in the MIAC???  Oh and on the final touchdown of Carleton's season, it was a fade route not anything over the middle that Wimmer could have done anything about...didn't really matter in the way things turned out anyway.

I just don't get your reasoning of last line of defense with many of his tackles not being farther than 4 or 5 yards downfield.  And last line of defense has nothing to do with his sacks, FF, Blocked kicks, TDs, INTs, etc.  I just don't think there is a coach in the MIAC that would've watched these two players play and vote Wimmer over Ziller.  Maybe if you watched 1 play the whole year and then watched the other play for one game, but not if you watched the season of both.

The MIAC being supposedly mediocre has absolutely nothing to do with which player deserved the award.

You are correct about the last play being a fade.  Check the rest of the drive.  There were numerous scrambles by Henfling that kept that drive alive and the 4th down play in the redzone was a slant, which is the linebackers responsibility to get underneath.

Also, while the Knights had the worst defense last season when measured by yards allowed, they were 5th in points allowed in the conference and forced a MIAC leading 26 turnovers during the season.

[Retired Old Rat]

Enough.  Enough.
Anyone want to talk about this year, this week?

[bennie]

Why the uproar? I posted 100% factual information...I just made it say what I needed it to say.

Willy Wonka...the Stephen Glass of Post Paterns! 8)

[PRF2009A]

Enough.  Enough.
Anyone want to talk about this year, this week?

not really.....

[hazzben]

Looking forward to the game tomorrow in Arden Hills.  Any BU posters going to be at the game?

I'll be in attendance.  It's my 5 year reunion...I can't believe it's been that long already!

On a similar note.  Ran into/met Cory Johnson at the gym yesterday.  Seemed like a really good guy.  We got to talk about the agony of that first season away from the game.  It is always great to meet guys (especially good players) from the other MIAC teams and find them to be everything I'd like to think MIAC players should be.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

The award was through College Sporting News, Mapping the MIAC by Rich Mies...and I will stick by my original point, someone had to make tackles, it just happened to be Ziller the last line of defense before lining up for the extra point...I am not saying he is/was not a good player, but on the statisticly worst D in the league AND in a mediocre year in the MIAC???  Oh and on the final touchdown of Carleton's season, it was a fade route not anything over the middle that Wimmer could have done anything about...didn't really matter in the way things turned out anyway.

Excuse me? There were NO football awards issued by CSN, never have been. Dont try deflecting your screwup onto someone else.

[tmerton]

Enough.  Enough.
Anyone want to talk about this year, this week?

[sjusection105]

Enough.  Enough.
Anyone want to talk about this year, this week?

Johnnies over Gusties 35-7

Whoever plays Northwestern over Northwestern 28-6....it's a lock, phone it in! 

[DuffMan]

Wonka, where is the rest of the GAC crew on here?  It's no fun trading barbs with just you.

Frank Rickard is watching an amazing episode of Maury right now. Mongo has been MIA for months. I couldn't even lure him away from his ball-and-chain with an offer of free golf this summer...

Sadly, that's all we have to offer right now. At least until Hoag's spectacular blog starts rolling!

What about Mr. Thorvig?  I think he is the only one that hated SJU more than you and OAS

[WithasilentK]

Well, it was probably the most football talk this board has seen in a year but OK...

Gustavus has more of a chance the Johnnies think, but not really a chance.
Hamline is improved, but that's more because teams play so bad against them.  Tommies will have no trouble with them.
Olaf stomps Auggie Tech as they do not have to many wepons for Sant Olif
Bethel CCM will be a good game with whoever winning keeping a decent chance at the MIAC title and whoever losing being in trouble.  (Yes that means the Johnnies will lose this year)
Carleton beats MAC in a game where they have one week to shake off their youngness to hold onto the Goat next week.

[DuffMan]

(Yes that means the Johnnies will lose this year)

Don't bet on it 

[AO]

Enough.  Enough.
Anyone want to talk about this year, this week?

Johnnies over Gusties 35-7

Whoever plays Northwestern over Northwestern 28-6....it's a lock, phone it in! 

I'll take that bet 105, Northwestern plays Crown in the 18th Bible Bowl.  Northwestern holds a 16-1 record in the series outscoring Crown 659-223.  The last meeting was 44-7.  But anything is possible, I'm taking Gustavus over the Johnnies on Saturday. 

[WashedUp]

Enough.  Enough.
Anyone want to talk about this year, this week?

Johnnies over Gusties 35-7

Whoever plays Northwestern over Northwestern 28-6....it's a lock, phone it in! 

I'll take that bet 105, Northwestern plays Crown in the 18th Bible Bowl.  Northwestern holds a 16-1 record in the series outscoring Crown 659-223.  The last meeting was 44-7.  But anything is possible, I'm taking Gustavus over the Johnnies on Saturday. 

Northwestern and Crown also played a 38-34 game at Crown last year.  That doesn't mean I'm predicting a Northwestern loss though.