FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[cobbernation]

I think I am going to try and quote a bunch of posts so my post is the only one on one page of MIAC PP!

[TC]

Ok fellas, TC's belated, much-anticipated preview of the Tommies is up at JohnnieFootball.com.  All 1,400+ words of it. 

[faunch]

St. Thomas 31, St. John's 14
Veek in a blowout.

I hope I'm wrong...

...about St. Thomas.

I tend to agree w/ TC....however I don't think the margin will be as wide a 14.  I just don't see that the Johnnies have the play-makers the Tommies do.  I also worry that Boyle is going to get himself in trouble and really rocked running around trying to buy time looking for an open receiver....oh yea...that's already happened about a dozen times....one of these times he'll get himself knocked out of the game. 
UST has much more to play for than the Johnnies....20 years of losing to SJU, the controversial loss last year and because of that I think the game environment could be a factor.   The Tom could come in way over-hyped and make some major mistakes.  I think they'll go right after some of the youth in our secondary which will be one of the keys to the game. 

I hope I'm wrong too TC but I see the Tomcats owning the day in 6 or 7 point game.

Yee of little faith.

I know I am...I think it's a bit of defense mechanism.  I always feel like my team is the underdog.

[WashedUp]

This isn't related to anything and I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but I was just looking at the top 25 rankings and I saw something I don't know if I have ever seen before.  Capital lost to Mount Union last week and jumped 5 spots in the rankings, from 21 to 16.  Just thought that was worth pointing out for anyone else that missed it.

[DustySJU]

This isn't related to anything and I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but I was just looking at the top 25 rankings and I saw something I don't know if I have ever seen before.  Capital lost to Mount Union last week and jumped 5 spots in the rankings, from 21 to 16.  Just thought that was worth pointing out for anyone else that missed it.

Well maybe a loss by UST to SJU will catapult them from #15 to #7.

[cobbernation]

This isn't related to anything and I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but I was just looking at the top 25 rankings and I saw something I don't know if I have ever seen before.  Capital lost to Mount Union last week and jumped 5 spots in the rankings, from 21 to 16.  Just thought that was worth pointing out for anyone else that missed it.

It's mostly likely because someone actually played MUC close.  That doesn't happen very often in the regular season!

[Knightstalker]

What's with all this history mystery? Tomorrow's 2 games:
JOHNNIES/tommies
Veek/TDT
are what counts ............now   Give your predictions

GO JOHNNIES!!!

57-

I'll take Veek over TDT - in a TKO 17 seconds

Is that how long it takes him to run out of the stadium?   

[Veek]

SJU 40
USTD 10

Veek/TDT draw

Flash: C'mon you have to pick a winner.  This isn't soccer.  No ties allowed!!!

TDT - or should I say Raisins-

Don't get on Flash.  We all know that he likes you and that is the only reason why he had us in a draw.  You might get Larry to vote for you but only because he likes an underdog. 

GO JOHNNIES!!!!!

[hazzben]

@ TC:
1st, I specifically said that I was in no way blaming Elliot for being injured or insinuating it wasn't a legit injury.  But as WithasilentK has noted, an extra year is huge.  No getting around it.  And there is no bigger jump than between your freshman and sophomore years.  So yes, although an injury no doubt sucked for Elliot, having one of his 4 years be at the age of 22 or 23 v. 18 like Hvistendahl is pretty significant.  Look no further than the jump Hvisty made between his frosh and soph seasons.  I think it is pretty reasonable that if he'd had a hardship like Elliot, he would have put up better numbers than 295 yds receiving!

2nd, I got the stats for Elliot's redshirt freshman year from http://www.miac-online.org/custompages/football/footballstats2000.html.  SJU's site didn't have the fb stats for 1999 or 2000 (I can only assume because they didn't want to admit to losing to Bethel twice  8))

3rd, I get that the 15 games were playoff opponents.  But you're telling me you don't think Hvistendahl averages  5.6 receptions a game and a measly 8.67 yds receiving/game, even if they are all playoff games?  Even if he's held to 50 yds receiving in those games, he blows Elliot's career receiving numbers out of the water.

I just think it's ridiculous to count playoff games in Elliot's totals when the MIAC and NCAA don't count those in career numbers for a reason.  It skews the entire argument towards players who play on better teams because they essentially added another season to their career.  Catch that, Elliot essentially has another seasons worth of statistics on Hvistendahl, albeit against excellent competition, but it was also a season as a 22/23 yr old player.

But here is the kicker.  When did you attend SJU?  Were you even there when Hvistendahl was playing?  Have you ever actually seen Hvistendahl play?  And if so, was it more than 4 times?  If your whole argument is solely based on having seen Elliot and knowing what Hvistendahl's stats were, then you have no reason to even be talking.  You're worse than the DI coaches who vote in the coaches poll each week.  Did I see all of Elliot's games, no way.  But I've played against him 4 times, watched film of him from at least 8 games and saw 5 other games in person.  I've seen every catch Hvistendahl made in the last 3 years of his career at Augsburg.  And I have to tell you, they were both great players, but I'm not convinced Elliot was better.  Especially when I consider who was playing around Elliot and who was throwing him the ball.

On a different note, nice preview for the Johnnie/Tommie rumble. 

My prediction...I have no idea, I just don't know what to think of either team yet.  The Tommies haven't had a close game and the Johnnies have looked pretty vulnerable.  But UST has found an amazing ability to choke against SJU, even in years when they appear to have more talent.

[tmerton]

TC;  Put your head in the toilet.

We have Flash; now we have Flush.

I can't believe how some folks are rolling over for this friggin New Yorker and his current team (give me the over/under on how many years Caruso stays at UST - I'd say 4).

We just have to keep it close.

[tmerton]

I never saw Hvistendahl play, but I read his book on Easter Island.

[57Johnnie]

I never saw Hvistendahl play, but I read his book on Easter Island.

......and I read Kon Tiki and The Waste Land  

....... and I did see Jim Lehman play

[TC]

I think I said in my last post that I believe I was at Hvistendahl's last game against St. John's but I'm not sure.  If I was there I can guarentee that I was not trying to evaluate his place in the all-time hierarchy of MIAC wide receivers.

The fact that you are arguing Blake Elliott's postseason stats should be ignored leads directly into the subjective side of the argument that I know neither one of us is going to change the other's mind about:  the postseason success is exactly what I think seperates Elliott from Hvistendahl.  

The Johnnies have always had a lot of talent.  The Auggies not so much.  But from 2000 to 2003, the Johnnies had a run of postseason success that they hadn't had the previous 25 years and haven't had since.  I think we can agree that it doesn't matter if Elliott had 1 catch for 5 yards or 20 for 250 yards and eleventy billion touchdowns against Macalester, Hamline, Carleton and Augsburg each year--the Johnnies were going to win those games regardless.  

What matters--and what I haven't seen any other MIAC player do since I started closely following the conference--is that when St. John's had to beat a really, really good team they stopped running their normal offense and just started handing the ball to Blake Elliott.  I don't know if that makes him the best wide receiver or the best player or just a uniquely talented player, but I do think it overshadows the importance of putting up great numbers in MIAC play.

I'm sure it's not Hvistendahl's fault that he only played in two playoff games during his career.  Football's a team sport and too often a team's best player gets blamed when he can't drag his less talented teammates to victory.  But I'd be shocked if he could have gone to St. John's from 2000 to 2003 and had the same impact Elliott did.  Your opinion may vary.

[USTBench]

TC;  Put your head in the toilet.

We have Flash; now we have Flush.

I can't believe how some folks are rolling over for this friggin New Yorker and his current team (give me the over/under on how many years Caruso stays at UST - I'd say 4).

We just have to keep it close.

Well he keeps saying D3 is where he wants to be and he likes it here. I hope he's here for awhile.

[WithasilentK]

TC;  Put your head in the toilet.

We have Flash; now we have Flush.

I can't believe how some folks are rolling over for this friggin New Yorker and his current team (give me the over/under on how many years Caruso stays at UST - I'd say 4).

We just have to keep it close.

Well he keeps saying D3 is where he wants to be and he likes it here. I hope he's here for awhile.

I wouldn't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.  I'll take the push, assuming UST wins 2 MIAC championships and gets deep in the playoffs one of the years.