FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[AO]

The one program that was trending upwards and could have done the MIAC some favors with decent non-conference wins was St. Thomas.  In stead, they took the cupcake approach.  Not that I blame them.  Caruso has to know that 9-1 puts them in the playoffs, 10-0 gets them a home game and a legitimate shot at a playoff win.  8-2 does nothing for them.  No reason to risk a loss in non-conference play.  

The Tommies cupcake approach might just give them a better SOS than the Johnnies.  Macalester and River Falls both have 2 wins, Eau Claire has 3, Northwestern 5.   The Northwestern game also helped the tommies SOS last year  when Northwestern had a little better year with 8 wins.   The Tommies ending up 9-1 benefits the Johnnies SOS.  

[bluenote]

Lewis & Clark putt a beating on Clown!   

[SagatagSam]

The video evidence is in to clear up the "touchdown-signalgate" scandal from the Johnnie-Tommie game last weekend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcTy2Rscjdc&feature=response_watch

He made a pretty definitive signal. The only problem was that he was immediately blocked by a couple UST players and then was engulfed by fans.

[Gray Fox]

Lewis & Clark putt a beating on Clown!   

So much for the golf report.

[OzJohnnie]

Dusty;

What am I missing regarding your johnniefootbal.com article?  "The Johnnies Joe B. Quarterback finds himself on the sideline with a severely injured thumb.  The injury reports swirling on the internet are better suited for the spare parts room in Jeffry Dahmer's Milwaukee apartment" and "when Joe B. Quarterback reappears on the 21st of November with his dangling thumb partially healed and slapped together with a heavy dose of athletic tape."  What rumors and where?  Is Boyle out until the first round (knock on wood we make it)?

[chewey]

The new top 25 poll is out and has SJU moving up to the 4th spot.  There has been chatter that Linfield would leapfrog SJU perhaps, but Linfield is ranked 5th for the time being.  I am looking forward to the regional rankings.  Question for the experts:  Will SJU slip in next week's rankings because of the bye week?  With the way the brackets have been made the last couple years (which has been an improvement by the way), it seems that staying in the top 4 could be a big advantage for seeding in the playoffs.

I don't see the bye hurting SJU's ranking.  Linfield is playing a winless Puget Sound team this week and also has a bye next week.  No reason for any rearranging to happen as a result of this week.

Ypsi (and a cast of thousands) beat me to it--Pat Coleman and Keith McMillan don't decide who makes the tournament or what their seeds are.  Which is a good thing for St. John's as no one here wants to open the playoffs on the road.

I'm interested to see what the regional rankings say when they are released this week.  St. John's anywhere from 2nd to 4th would make sense.  (Seeing the SOS numbers--Linfield, Central, and St. John's at 3, 5 and 6, respectively--make me even more interested.)

Skip the next portion if you're bored by Regional Rankings and just want to see me bash Chewey.

*****

In the 2008 West Regional rankings, the top 10 teams were always ranked by record (i.e., undefeated teams ahead of 1-loss teams ahead of 2-loss teams).  This was not always the case in other regions, which might suggest that the committee thinks there's more parity in the West.

Throughout last year's rankings, there were three undefeated teams, Willamette-NWC, Occidental-SCIAC, and Monmouth-MWC, and they were ranked in that order all three weeks.  The next highest-ranked teams were the 1-loss WIAC teams, followed by various 1-loss SCIAC teams, followed by 1-loss Northwestern.  Aside from the first rankings which had Concordia ahead of SJU, St. John's was always the highest-ranked 2-loss team, ahead of 2-loss teams like Wartburg--IIAC, Linfield-NWC and various MIAC teams.

These rankings held when the brackets were released:
1. Willamette
2. Occidental
3. Monmouth
4. UW-Stevens Point (beat UW-W)
5. UW-Whitewater
6. St. John's
7. Wartburg
8. Aurora (unranked 1-loss team from the North Region)

I won't bore you even further with the 2007 regional rankings, but they went like this:
Undefeated:  WIAC > MIAC > IIAC > MWC
The 1-loss teams were a bit murkier but, roughly:  MIAC > IIAC > SCIAC >  NWC is an approximation.
The actual bracket differed from the final rankings when UW-Whitewater was moved to the north as the #1 and 1-loss Bethel beat undefeated St. John's after the final public rankings.  Still, the MIAC had the highest two 1-loss teams in the West Region with the #2 and #4 seeds.

What I'm trying to say is that the NCAA has been quite (inexplicably?) kind to the MIAC in the rankings and eventual seedings the past couple of years.  

My guess at what this week's top 10 will look like:

1. UW-Whitewater (7-0)
2. St. John's (8-0, beat St. Thomas and Bethel*)
3. Central (8-0, beat Coe)
4. Linfield (7-0, beat Occidental)
5. Monmouth (8-0, beat St. Norbert*)
6. St. Thomas (6-1)
7. Coe (6-1)
8. UW-Stevens Point (5-2, 4-1 in region)
9. Occidental (7-1, beat Redlands)
10. Redlands (7-1)

And I think the next two schools under consideration will be Bethel (5-2, 5-1 in region?  I'm not sure if the Wheaton game counts in-region based on the schools' proximity) and St. Norbert (7-1).  

THIS IS NOT HOW I THINK THE SCHOOLS SHOULD BE RANKED, just my guess at what the rankings will be.  We can all laugh at how far off I am when they come out this week.  Can't wait for that!

*****

The J's have an absolute surplus of great backs and great receivers and the defense is top notch.  

Chewey, you're crazy.  Like, certifiably so.  

The big knock on recent St. John's teams is that they have lacked the elite offensive skill position players that they have had in the past.  I'm not sure what you've seen this year to make you change your mind, but I sure haven't seen it.

The next tackler that Jakob Reding makes miss will be his first.  Against Concorida, Bethel, St. Thomas and St. Olaf (the only defenses remotely close to what they'd see in the playoffs), Reding ran the ball 78 times.  His longest carry from scrimmage?  9 YARDS!  Sounds like a great back to me.  

Kellen Blaser is a great fullback but shouldn't be a team's feature back.  I think Jimmy Loonan should see the field more but he's, ahem, not from Central Minnesota so I'm not sure he'll get a fair shot.  Nick Schneider is out for the year.

I think that the most talented (healthy) running backs on the team are Stevey Johnson and Harry Awe.  They're freshmen, but this is Awe's second year in the program.  I'd like to think that those two with fresh legs in the playoffs could really help a struggling offense.

Vanderheyden's a great big target who is good for a catch a game and the team does absolutely nothing creative to get him the ball.  Sounds like a great receiver.  Overman's a nice tight end/wide receiver/whatever.  Sam Pederson and Andrew Rotschafer remind me of Casey Haugen:  Pederson because they announce his name before the game, he is on the field for the first play, and you don't hear from him for the next 60 minutes, and Rotschafer because it looks like they found him on a Pop Warner field.

Who are the great backs and receivers that I'm forgetting about?  Or are you living in the alternate reality where the Gophers never came calling for Decker, nobody on this board pissed off Flannery's grandpa, and Waldvogel's "scholarship" fell through at USTd?

*****

My Tommie-spawn nephew looks positively badass in his St. John's football jersey and pants.

*****

I agree with the earlier talk that the MIAC might be down this year.  Carleton and Augsburg graduate the best passing attacks in school history before this season (and no, I don't particularly care to reopen the Hvistendahl Debates).  Carleton is back down as a program but pluckier than they were 5+ years ago, while Augsburg really hasn't missed a beat.  St. Olaf has a nice little defense but nowhere near the talent they had a couple years ago.  Concordia followed a nice non-conference win by crapping all over themselves in conference play.  

The one program that was trending upwards and could have done the MIAC some favors with decent non-conference wins was St. Thomas.  In stead, they took the cupcake approach.  Not that I blame them.  Caruso has to know that 9-1 puts them in the playoffs, 10-0 gets them a home game and a legitimate shot at a playoff win.  8-2 does nothing for them.  No reason to risk a loss in non-conference play.  

These playoffs should be telling.  I could see St. Thomas getting in and losing in the first round and St. John's losing at home in the first or, for sure, second round--the SCIAC/MWC patsies that they used to feed top seeds in the first round don't exist anymore.  Bethel's run to Alliance is the last thing the MIAC has accomplished in the playoffs.  That was 2007.  And Bethel.  Yuck.

I guess I'll  have to get on my Lithium again.  I think we have good skill position players and that we simply need a confident QB who can make throws without getting too rattled.  Are any of them Chris Palmer, Blake Elliot, Adam Hrbst, Murray, Loretz, Malmberg, Chris Moore, Kent Crowley? No.  I liken a couple of them more to the Roland Buller (sp?) type of back.  Jakob Reding is a bull.  He is not to avoid people but to run over them and he does that.  The backs have been open in the flat and in the middle but they have been missed by the QB's.  Reding was wide open at least twice over the middle when Versachte (sp?) was QB.  Teams have been keying in on the run all year and the Johnnies have still pounded it and won.  Just think of how good they would look if there was a very serious passing game going on.   St. John's plays the talent and not just kids from Central MN.  Palmer (Fairfax) and Crowley (Fulda) were from southern Minnesota and so was Schnobrich (New Ulm).  Danielson was from Fargo and their (4 year starter) kicker of a few years back was a little kid from Bismarck, ND.  Conzemius was a great running back from Fargo who played in the early 90's.  Now, I would agree that the recruiting competition has gotten a lot stiffer and that SJU has lost some outstanding talent to other schools, accordingly.  But, I still think they have a lot of talent there.  

SJU may need to change its recruiting tactics to get 80% of those top notch kids like it used to.  Maybe doing more than saying, "hey, I am the coach with the most wins in history.  Come play for me if you want to" is necessary to do this.   Maybe kids are turned off by the theatrics and commercializing that goes on at SJU home games.  What Gagliardi and the coaching staff has done there for over half a century speaks for itself, I guess, so what do I know?  There are probably not even many high school "purists" anyway and I am more a cynic rather than a purist anyway.  If I were a parent with a talented high school football player for a son and I wanted him to go somewhere, like SJU, where I'd know he'd continue to play football and actually learn how to read and write well, some of what SJU does would turn me off.  

[OzJohnnie]

Minnesota makes the news Down Under.  Were you visiting the Gopher State, flash?

"For sale: hotted-up chair, one driver only"

A SMALL town [Proctor] police department in Minnesota will put a motorised lounge chair up for auction next week after it was seized in a drunk driving incident.

The black and blue leather lounge chair comes complete with stereo, footrest, cupholders, headlights, a nitrous oxide power boost system, drag racing-style steering wheel and a parachute.

Built on top of a riding lawnmower engine, the chair is decorated with stickers proclaiming "hell yeah it's fast" and "I smoked your (expletive)," and can get up to speeds of around 24km per hour.

[OzJohnnie]

SJU may need to change its recruiting tactics to get 80% of those top notch kids like it used to.  Maybe doing more than saying, "hey, I am the coach with the most wins in history.  Come play for me if you want to" is necessary to do this.   Maybe kids are turned off by the theatrics and commercializing that goes on at SJU home games.  What Gagliardi and the coaching staff has done there for over half a century speaks for itself, I guess, so what do I know?  There are probably not even many high school "purists" anyway and I am more a cynic rather than a purist anyway.  If I were a parent with a talented high school football player for a son and I wanted him to go somewhere, like SJU, where I'd know he'd continue to play football and actually learn how to read and write well, some of what SJU does would turn me off. 

Hmmm... I don't know.  I think the atmosphere of the games is pretty good (at least it sure was at the Johnnie/Tommie game - I loved it, despite the hesitation I had from a few years of following the discussion here).  I can't credibly imagine that players think negatively about the "Open your page to..." announcements or the new superboxes.  All of that adds to the big-time feeling of playing at St John's.  The tradition, the fans... It's all pretty exciting.  In terms of talent, the bottom line is this: parents have to pay for kids to play in DIII and if a school can greatly ease that burden then it trumps the atmosphere, all other things being roughly equal between institutions.

We often complain about the Tommie "scholarship program", but it would be interesting to see some actual stats on the relative costs to play on each of the MIAC teams.  We may find that rather than under-recruiting, SJU is actually punching above it's weight, based on relative costs.  Of course, we could find the opposite is true and SJU is punching below.  Or I guess we could find out nothing at all as well, but I bet there is a strong correlation between costs and recruiting, particularly in the non-alumni community where there is less emotional influence.

(BTW, my dad checked his program every time there was an announcement to look.  "What page was that?" he would ask.  Dad usually has no patience for that sort of stuff.  If he went to more games than one every 15 years he would quickly join the "shoot out the speakers" chorus.)

[Willy Wonka]

SJU may need to change its recruiting tactics to get 80% of those top notch kids like it used to.  Maybe doing more than saying, "hey, I am the coach with the most wins in history.  Come play for me if you want to" is necessary to do this.   Maybe kids are turned off by the theatrics and commercializing that goes on at SJU home games.  What Gagliardi and the coaching staff has done there for over half a century speaks for itself, I guess, so what do I know?  There are probably not even many high school "purists" anyway and I am more a cynic rather than a purist anyway.  If I were a parent with a talented high school football player for a son and I wanted him to go somewhere, like SJU, where I'd know he'd continue to play football and actually learn how to read and write well, some of what SJU does would turn me off. 

Hmmm... I don't know.  I think the atmosphere of the games is pretty good (at least it sure was at the Johnnie/Tommie game - I loved it, despite the hesitation I had from a few years of following the discussion here).  I can't credibly imagine that players think negatively about the "Open your page to..." announcements or the new superboxes.  All of that adds to the big-time feeling of playing at St John's.  The tradition, the fans... It's all pretty exciting.  In terms of talent, the bottom line is this: parents have to pay for kids to play in DIII and if a school can greatly ease that burden then it trumps the atmosphere, all other things being roughly equal between institutions.

We often complain about the Tommie "scholarship program", but it would be interesting to see some actual stats on the relative costs to play on each of the MIAC teams.  We may find that rather than under-recruiting, SJU is actually punching above it's weight, based on relative costs.  Of course, we could find the opposite is true and SJU is punching below.  Or I guess we could find out nothing at all as well, but I bet there is a strong correlation between costs and recruiting, particularly in the non-alumni community where there is less emotional influence.

(BTW, my dad checked his program every time there was an announcement to look.  "What page was that?" he would ask.  Dad usually has no patience for that sort of stuff.  If he went to more games than one every 15 years he would quickly join the "shoot out the speakers" chorus.)

I doubt you'd find a clear consensus in terms of financial aid, Oz. I know former Johnnie starter Jed Riegelman was HEAVILY recruited by Olaf to play baseball and, to a lesser extent, football. The Js were able to offer him a UST-like package that blew STO (and everyone else) out of the water. I have a similar story in regards to Carleton and GAC, and have heard too many examples around the league to think there's a clear answer.

With the way you can, uh, get creative with academic aid at the D3 level, it usually leaves enough wiggle room to sneak in a couple guys each year that typically wouldn't work out. The main exceptions to this rule are, generally speaking, Mac and Car because of their lofty academic standards.

CC to tmerts - I'm glad you untucked your tail and decided to grace us with your presence again. It was very, very lonely here without you

[DustySJU]

Dusty;

What am I missing regarding your johnniefootbal.com article?  "The Johnnies Joe B. Quarterback finds himself on the sideline with a severely injured thumb.  The injury reports swirling on the internet are better suited for the spare parts room in Jeffry Dahmer's Milwaukee apartment" and "when Joe B. Quarterback reappears on the 21st of November with his dangling thumb partially healed and slapped together with a heavy dose of athletic tape."  What rumors and where?  Is Boyle out until the first round (knock on wood we make it)?

Oz;  Sorry to send your heart a flutter however I'll admit a bit of Willy Wonka like conjecture on my part as SCTimes Reporter Frank Rajkowski reported Sunday:

"It was just a roll-out and I tried to cut the ball up to get more yards," Boyle said. "I dove and I landed on it pretty awkwardly. The thumb ended up going in a direction it's not supposed to go."

My estimates are the Johnnie staff puts this kid on the mend as long as possible and will break him out only with the reincarnation of Doc Whitrock or until they can hook him up with Tom Linnemann's witch doctor.

Developing....

[sjusection105]

My estimates are the Johnnie staff puts this kid on the mend as long as possible and will break him out only with the reincarnation of Doc Whitrock or until they can hook him up with Tom Linnemann's witch doctor.

Developing....

That witch doctor has done some amazing things over the years with bum knees and ankles. Realease the Chi- acupuncture and green tea! 

[WithasilentK]

SJU may need to change its recruiting tactics to get 80% of those top notch kids like it used to.  Maybe doing more than saying, "hey, I am the coach with the most wins in history.  Come play for me if you want to" is necessary to do this.   Maybe kids are turned off by the theatrics and commercializing that goes on at SJU home games.  What Gagliardi and the coaching staff has done there for over half a century speaks for itself, I guess, so what do I know?  There are probably not even many high school "purists" anyway and I am more a cynic rather than a purist anyway.  If I were a parent with a talented high school football player for a son and I wanted him to go somewhere, like SJU, where I'd know he'd continue to play football and actually learn how to read and write well, some of what SJU does would turn me off. 

Hmmm... I don't know.  I think the atmosphere of the games is pretty good (at least it sure was at the Johnnie/Tommie game - I loved it, despite the hesitation I had from a few years of following the discussion here).  I can't credibly imagine that players think negatively about the "Open your page to..." announcements or the new superboxes.  All of that adds to the big-time feeling of playing at St John's.  The tradition, the fans... It's all pretty exciting.  In terms of talent, the bottom line is this: parents have to pay for kids to play in DIII and if a school can greatly ease that burden then it trumps the atmosphere, all other things being roughly equal between institutions.

We often complain about the Tommie "scholarship program", but it would be interesting to see some actual stats on the relative costs to play on each of the MIAC teams.  We may find that rather than under-recruiting, SJU is actually punching above it's weight, based on relative costs.  Of course, we could find the opposite is true and SJU is punching below.  Or I guess we could find out nothing at all as well, but I bet there is a strong correlation between costs and recruiting, particularly in the non-alumni community where there is less emotional influence.

(BTW, my dad checked his program every time there was an announcement to look.  "What page was that?" he would ask.  Dad usually has no patience for that sort of stuff.  If he went to more games than one every 15 years he would quickly join the "shoot out the speakers" chorus.)

I doubt you'd find a clear consensus in terms of financial aid, Oz. I know former Johnnie starter Jed Riegelman was HEAVILY recruited by Olaf to play baseball and, to a lesser extent, football. The Js were able to offer him a UST-like package that blew STO (and everyone else) out of the water. I have a similar story in regards to Carleton and GAC, and have heard too many examples around the league to think there's a clear answer.

With the way you can, uh, get creative with academic aid at the D3 level, it usually leaves enough wiggle room to sneak in a couple guys each year that typically wouldn't work out. The main exceptions to this rule are, generally speaking, Mac and Car because of their lofty academic standards.

CC to tmerts - I'm glad you untucked your tail and decided to grace us with your presence again. It was very, very lonely here without you

I don't know much about UST's financial aid packages, but I do know something about SJU and Carleton's.  SJU offers plenty of "leadership" scholarships for their football players that cut down the cost signficantly.  I doubt this is any different than UST's. However, their tuition has been going sky-high over the past two years.  Every school is increasing, but SJU has been doing so at an alarming rate, and cutting financial aid for the general population/sports players/not football players.

Carleton bases financial aid entirely off of need.  This means merit has nothing to do with it and they find a number they believe to be affordable to you and your parents.  There are generally three groups that this leaves students in:

1)  Wealthy enough that they pay the full price tag and the parents cut a yearly check.
2)  Unwealthy enough that Carleton foots nearly the entire bill and allows them to go to school for next to nothing, and much cheaper than almost any other MIAC school.
3)  Right in the middle, where they still have to pay a significant portion and leaving them about on par with the rest of the MIAC, or having to pay a little more.

The last group is where the majority of players reside, and often these players have to turn down merit based aid/scholarships at other schools to come to Carleton.  I do know a certain very good player at UST that was all ready to do that when the admissions office decided to make a huge blunder and not let him in.

[WithasilentK]

Carleton is back down as a program but pluckier than they were 5+ years ago

This may not have been what you meant to imply, but I'll get my daily Carleton football talk in anyways.  Carleton is not down as a program this year.  They're down with no seniors and don't have the experience to compete with the top MIAC schools, but the program itself is doing fine.  They will be very good in the coming years.  I completely believe they will have a conference championship in one of the next 3 years.  They have loads of skill position talent on both sides of the ball (don't laugh, I've seen them play and practice, they're going to be good).  If their sophomore QB comes around, and I think he is doing that right now, they are going to be very dangerous.

[smedindy]

I would say most of the schools that are 'national' Top 50 ranked liberal arts schools (or in the neighborhood) and / or have larger endowments are purely need based in financial aid, even with endowments being down like they are. Those that are more dependent on tuition need to be creative with financial aid all across the board.

Working at Wabash, the perception was that they gave more aid to football players, but knowing the reality and mechanics of the financial aid system (worked closely with them to steward scholarships) that wasn't the case.

The fact is that going to school at Carleton shouldn't be onerously more expensive than St. John's or St. Thomas if you have the grades, desire and need. Each MIAC school has a niche they fill academically and financially. I think that's what's great about the area and the conference. I'm glad I moved up here. Even though my daughters are 11-15 years away from college, it's good to know they have a lot of excellent private school options (oh, and public universities, too) up here.

[hazzben]

K- Not sure what I think about the MIAC this year. It was definitely down last year, a lot of parity that made things interesting, but down none the less. Look no further than the evidence from the playoffs (and I don't think anyone would have done any better than SJU)

Totally disagree abou Bethel. I'm not sure how they stack up nationally, but they are a vastly improved team from last year. Barring a late season collapse, their record alone will prove that. But they've gotten better in all phases: oline, qb, defense, wr and most importantly they are fairly healthy. Last year they lost arguably their two best players for the season.