FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hazzben]

The point is, the "Playbook" was probably not as extensive that early in the season. That means that some of the plays that might be in the "Bag-O-Tricks" might not have been there for them to execute. That is probably true of many teams. Unfortunately, but let's not show our ignorance by making idiotic comments.

Not mentioning any names (hazzben)

Ah, the old invalid argumentation technique of Argumentum ad hominum. I will say that I haven't played all that much football, but I have been on this earth for a good number of years, have eyes, a brain, and can process information as well as most. If one can't learn by watching and analyzing what works, what doesn't, what certain teams are good at, what they are not good at, what some teams tendencies are, what their weaknesses are, then I guess I will "shut my Yapper."

Ah right. Pot, meet kettle.

If anyone pulled the old ad hominum trick, it was you. After you went personal on a guy you've never met and know next to nothing about, I merely wanted to know the expertise of the individual calling me ignorant and idiotic. It could only have been an ad hominum attack if I had known what your football philosophy/expertise/experience was. I did not. For all I knew you were going to say you played for SJU, coached HS football for years, were the most intelligent football mind Gags ever coached, etc, etc. Interesting that you took a simple question as an attack upon your person

Incidentally, you completely failed to engage with the substance of my argument. Can I assume that it's because you concede? 

I'm still not sure why you got snarky and personal with a guy you've never met. Do you want to know anything about me or my background, or are you ok with labeling people ignorant and idiots that you know nothing about?

On a side note: I agree that a guy can glean a decent amount of information about from watching football for years as a fan. I don't agree that this is the same as having played at the level of competition you're commenting on, much less if you've never coached at that level. Sure you have a casual idea of what you're observing and this board is fun because it welcomes all our opinions on these topics. But no, I don't think that's the same as having been on the field or having had to make half-time adjustments or put together a game plan from week to week.

I love playing Monday morning QB, but I don't know the game like Peyton Manning or Chad Greenway and even the worst NFL head coach has infinitely more football knowledge than anyone on this board. FWIW

[Purebred Johnnie]

Re: Johnnie coaching brilliance, y'all will have to excuse me--I haven't gotten my issue of Johnnie Groupthink Weekly in the mail yet.  Are we considering Jimmy G a genius or a doofus right now? 

If he really did keep all the good plays under wraps against UW-Eau Claire, then it's time to end his nepotistic reign and get a real offensive coordinator because a loss to UWEC really sucks for SJU's postseason chances.  And if he used all the good plays that game and that's all St. John's has against a good defense, well...  Saturday could get ugly. 

Clark, what's on the menu for Saturday?  A little PBR action? 

I'll refrain from using exact words...I'll just say I consider him nowhere near genius.  Consideration thanks to the many stories from friends who are on the team.

[hazzben]

What's the attendance record at Clemens?

Is it from a UST - SJU tilt or was it the BU - SJU 409 game back in 2003?

[hazzben]

And while I'm still lurking around the board...what on earth is going on with the Twins. How are we struggling against the Royals right now 

[Purebred Johnnie]

What's the attendance record at Clemens?

Is it from a UST - SJU tilt or was it the BU - SJU 409 game back in 2003?

BU-SJU 409 in 2003 is the record holder.  Last year's St. Thomas game had a lower paid attendance by less than 1,000.  Keep in mind that many people were stuck on I-94 trying to get into Collegeville and missed the first half therefore did not pay...so it may have been more...

[faunch]

My point was that I think they do try to hide "wrinkles" on both the offense and defensive sides of the ball.  I did not play at SJU and in fact my football playing experience is limited to high school 20+ years ago on a team that didn't have a very sophisticated offense or defense.
That being said I do think SJU keeps things very vanilla against teams that they are fairly confident they can beat.  Like other teams they run plays and sets for the sole purpose of making teams prepare for something that they probably won't see on game day.  I don't know if this was the case against UWEC or Concordia as I didn't watch the games.  

As for the issue of game film...I know for a fact that the UST coaching staff has watched film on every single SJU game going back a number of years.  I agree with many others that if a team wants to get film on another team they will find a way to get it.  

I do think the Jays are working very hard to establish the running game this season and will have to run the ball effectively against UST on Saturday.  They will need to control the ball, keep the clock running and limit the number of UST possesions.  If the Tommies have to punt the ball early it's good news for the Jays, however if the Tommies can get up early it could be an uphill battle for SJU.  

I probably don't know what the hell I'm talking about anyway...bartender!!!

Gimmie nuther beer....

Woodford Reserve.  Might have Surlyfest on Saturday....Sounds like they are going to have cans of Surly Wet this fall but probably not by this weekend.  Buy this beer...you will not be disappointed:  http://beernews.org/2010/09/surly-wet-coming-to-cans/

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

What's the attendance record at Clemens?

Is it from a UST - SJU tilt or was it the BU - SJU 409 game back in 2003?

BU-SJU 409 in 2003 is the record holder.  Last year's St. Thomas game had a lower paid attendance by less than 1,000.  Keep in mind that many people were stuck on I-94 trying to get into Collegeville and missed the first half therefore did not pay...so it may have been more...

and legend has it several hundred, maybe 1500 were inside Clemens before security showed up for the 409 game. Unarmed robocobs asked people to leave but no one did.. either way, we will never really know for sure the attendance at either game.

if the weather holds, my hunch is over 15,000 show up.

I see Mikey Rand of Strib fame plagarizes from the board here....he opined this morning that the UST/SJU  and NW/Gopher games switch locations, if its not too late to bettre accomodate both crowds.

Ive been practicing my Cella soft-shoe postgame impersonation 

[sju56321]

Well, I got to agree with TDT...........I don't know who will win the game. Hope SJU is victorious. If the game is low scoring, I think that plays into SJU hands, anything over 24 and UST will win.
I do know that if SJU loses, they will need enormous help to get into the playoffs, the second place conference team for the IIAC or the WIAC better have 3 loses. But if UST wins, then you have the potential for that Mount "East" Bracket, UWW "North" Bracket and UST "West" Bracket. Could this be the year we see three teams from the West Coast in the playoffs?
Still, all in all, this weekend will tell if we have a UWW-Mount and then the rest of DIII or a little more competition.

[AlmostEx]

My Keys to the Game (and I have no bona fides so take this with a grain of salt)

Coaching/Game Plan.  Despite the final score last year, I thought SJU drew up a brilliant game plan for UST.  This year it will take an even better game plan.  SJU will want as much ball control as possible, but I expect the bitter taste of UWEC still remains and we will see a ball control game that has some flair and well time flexibility.  Advantage SJU.

Offense.  As long as SJU isn't one dimensional, making it really, really easy on the UST defensive coaches, and as long as they aren't negative in the turnover department, they will get their points.

Defense.  The SJU defense has yet to have a complete game.  They have yet to have their best game.  I expect them to have a complete game and best game season to date.  I do not see match-up issues or a clear advantage for UST.  I would guess UST coaching staff having watched film believes they have the advantage – this will work against them.  Advantage SJU.

Special Teams.  This is (my) concern.  This is UST strength against, um . . . developing strength for SJU.  If the kickoffs are not in the end zone and on the 10-15 yard line as has been the case, their return guy is going to get them a short field to work with.  I hope SJU proves me wrong, but Advantage UST.

Home Field.  There can be no question.  Advantage SJU.

Intangible.  I hope the MIAC has the sense to assign the absolutely best crew for this game.  The crew for the Concordia game, was the worst (UWEC loss included) I have ever seen at any level.  Control your own destiny SJU!

SJU by seven.  SJU will have at least one more big play than UST which will result in a touchdown and that will be the difference on the score board.

[DuffMan]

Defense.  The SJU defense has yet to have a complete game.  They have yet to have their best game.  I expect them to have a complete game and best game season to date.  I do not see match-up issues or a clear advantage for UST.  I would guess UST coaching staff having watched film believes they have the advantage – this will work against them.  Advantage SJU.

Although I have only seen one game in person, I have not been entirely impressed with the defensive unit as a whole.  The d line really needs to step up an make things happen.  They're wasting time playing patty cakes with the o-linemen when they need to shed their blocks and get upfield.  And whatever happened to containing the QB?  I don't know if they've changed some assignments around (I doubt it) since I have been there, but we had an angry Fasching on our asses if we ever lost contain!  I realize it can take a few games to really develop, but those guys really need to turn it on, which they certainly can.  Our line in 2001 looked pretty sluggish the first few games, but ended up as a pretty solid unit. 

[AlmostEx]

<< They're wasting time playing patty cakes with the o-linemen when they need to shed their blocks and get upfield.  And whatever happened to containing the QB? >>

Patty cakes can be so much fun though!  I agree completely on shedding the block.  Less so on the contain.  In both cases it might be helpful if the official enfored the rules, i.e., holding, i.e., Concordia and then maybe it would be an even playing field.  There has been a sideline/press box assignment change that while helpful to the overall defense, I think has been an adjustment for the line, but maybe not.

[sjusection105]

My Keys to the Game (and I have no bona fides so take this with a grain of salt)

Coaching/Game Plan.  Despite the final score last year, I thought SJU drew up a brilliant game plan for UST.  This year it will take an even better game plan.  SJU will want as much ball control as possible, but I expect the bitter taste of UWEC still remains and we will see a ball control game that has some flair and well time flexibility.  Advantage SJU.

Offense.  As long as SJU isn't one dimensional, making it really, really easy on the UST defensive coaches, and as long as they aren't negative in the turnover department, they will get their points.
Defense.  The SJU defense has yet to have a complete game.  They have yet to have their best game.  I expect them to have a complete game and best game season to date.  I do not see match-up issues or a clear advantage for UST.  I would guess UST coaching staff having watched film believes they have the advantage – this will work against them.  Advantage SJU.

Special Teams.  This is (my) concern.  This is UST strength against, um . . . developing strength for SJU.  If the kickoffs are not in the end zone and on the 10-15 yard line as has been the case, their return guy is going to get them a short field to work with.  I hope SJU proves me wrong, but Advantage UST.

Home Field.  There can be no question.  Advantage SJU.

Intangible.  I hope the MIAC has the sense to assign the absolutely best crew for this game.  The crew for the Concordia game, was the worst (UWEC loss included) I have ever seen at any level.  Control your own destiny SJU!

SJU by seven.  SJU will have at least one more big play than UST which will result in a touchdown and that will be the difference on the score board.

Great points.

SJU turnovers allowed UST back into the game last year & lost the play-off game vs. Coe. The Johnnies have to secure the ball on offense,don't struggle for an extra yard if it results in a turnover. Johnnie D needs to create turnovers,but this is obvious.

BTW Duff, your 2002 D was much better as you defeated Linfield in Oregon 

[USTBench]

I'm not going to use Concordia as a common opponent because of course they didn't have their starter against UST, but I will say this: Nobody has been able to pass against UST this year and I don't see SJU having much success through the air.

I think if SJU is going to have success on offense they will have to establish the run early and not stray too far from it. UST had difficulty with UWRF for the first half, and RF was able to establish some long, clock chewing drives, which was huge in keeping the UST Offense off the field. The only problem was UWRF couldn't finish and would stall just outside of field goal range.

I know TDT said that UST typically plays a 3-4, but when they struggle against the run it quickly turns into a disguised 5-2 where their OLBs turn into stand-up DEnds. They had some success with this because their corner back play is outstaning and Brady Ervin and Bryan Villar are outstanding tacklers from the safety possession. Considering how much ground Tommy Becker can cover and how much they trust their secondary, I would say to be effective passing Boyle would have to play a flawless game.

[DuffMan]

Patty cakes can be so much fun though!  I agree completely on shedding the block.  Less so on the contain.  In both cases it might be helpful if the official enfored the rules, i.e., holding, i.e., Concordia and then maybe it would be an even playing field.  There has been a sideline/press box assignment change that while helpful to the overall defense, I think has been an adjustment for the line, but maybe not.

Contain is critical.  It forces the QB to pull up and either get rid of the ball or eat it.  It's so much easier to get a sack when the QB is contained.  How many times do you see a d-lineman pursuing a QB from the backside.  You contain that QB, and someone gets the sack.

In regards to the holding, as a d-lineman, you get used to it and deal with it.  You're getting held constantly, you've got to defeat it.  There were some blatant holds in the Concordia game, and those are tough/impossible to deal with, but any o-lineman that says he doesn't hold on nearly every play is a liar.

I'm not sure why they put Dumo in the press box this year.  I talked to him after the Concordia game, and I think he'd rather be on the field.

[DuffMan]

BTW Duff, your 2002 D was much better as you defeated Linfield in Oregon 

Pretty much the same line as 2001 minus Pat Gilbert.  We matured and developed as players.  That was a fun game