FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Retired Old Rat]

UST actually drew more to their last playoff game than I would bet st. john's has ever drew up in collegeville for a playoff game.

Why don't you research that and get back to us?

IF that is in fact true, might have something to do with the fact that the competing schools are 5 miles apart.

I was at the Linfield playoff game.  While the attendance was respectable, I am sure SJU has drawn more to a playoff game.

[Johnnie Red]

Always nice to start off the day by meeting Miss Minnesota!!! She is an Ole and a native of Dassel. When I told her I was a Johnnie, she thought SJU was located in St. Joe. Had to correct her on that. Maybe I should try and get her up to Collegeville for the Ole game on November 5 and the Stiftungsfestivities.

[AO]

Research has been completed.  The last time St. John's drew more for a playoff game than the Tommie-Royal playoff game last year was 1999 vs. Central.  Tommie-Royals was 4,490--99' St. John's-Central was 5,792.

Would a Tommie-Johnnie playoff game draw more than say 7000?  If not, wouldn't the Tommies win the bid between the two schools to host as they can probably find more inventive ways to gouge people and bring in more money than the Johnnies.

[USTBench]

Insomnia led to reading USTBench's amateur piece.
Highlight for me was stepping over the wall at Carlton.


                           zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

If only that happened AT Carleton. It was my sophomore year and there was a lightning delay. When we came out of the locker room, the same way we always did, the gate was closed and locked.

So, rather than a mass of purple huddling togeter, geeked to play football, running out onto the field together, it looked like a scene from a bad sports movie when the "good" team is doing perfectly coordinated calisthenics, and the rag tag bunch of misfits are wearing ill-fitting equipment and picking their collective noses (See: Mighty Ducks/Little Giants/Sandlot/Longest Yard). We still won the game comfortably, but it was some shameful $hit.

But it was a bunch of little things like that. Location made us loaded with talent by default, but the "Eh...it's just a job, I'm not going to take it all that seriously" mentality of the Roney era that made UST an average team. It was just a very passive, slow atmosphere. 2nd team guys were on one knee for entire practices watching the first teams and scout teams go at it, to the point where 2nd team guys were jumping in on scout team just for something to do. We had an 80 year old OC that knew about 5 guys' names who often berated other coaches in front of us. And there was zero conversation about tradition, we walked by an old bell every day on our way to the practice field, that apparently had been used at some point in our program's history, but it just sat there, next to a gardening tractor, covered in cobwebs, looking sad. (Glad to see Caruso brought it back.) Then there was cutting out Coe, St. Norbert's, and WIAC teams from the non-conf. schedule, and replacing them with MAC and Northwestern (Sorry AO), and cutting our schedule from 10 games to 9. Just some real chicken$hit crap.

We had great position coaches, guys who actually made me a halfway decent football player when they were done with me. The transformations some kids would make from their freshman to sophomore years were unbelievable, simply through great coaching. But the coaches were under-utilized and didn't last long. Not because they had aspirations of coaching at a bigger program, often times, they'd leave for a 9 to 5 gig, or a high school program.

I've taken some flack for airing out the dirty laundry of early 00s UST football, but the attitude there now is so completely different it's hard not to point it out. And whether it was Roney's decision to leave after the 2 win season or not, I'll never know, but I'm guessing when it was announced that UST would be getting that new athletic facility, Fritz had to come to grips with the fact that football is the hood ornament for every school that has a team.

Roney was a nice guy. But nice guy doesn't mean great leader. In fact, most of the decent coaches in my life were sort of A-holes that jumped in people's $hit a lot. I know Gags isn't really like that, but I'm sure there are plenty of dudes on SJU's staff that are.

[USTBench]

If you're going to dish it out, you have to be able to take it.  No -k for you two.

I don't hit anyone with -k unless I think they are an a hole.  Not many on here, but there are some.  And you all know who you are.   

I suggest a hobby. The year UST went 2-8 I learned how to make beer.

The only logical next question...was it any good?

The more technical it got, the less the C02. Made a great pale ale, failed horribly at a dortmunder. At the end of the day I realized I love beer, and hate chemistry, and I was really just adding something I hate to something I love. I respect how it's made, and the work that goes into it, I just don't want to do it.

[DuffMan]

In fact, most of the decent coaches in my life were sort of A-holes that jumped in people's $hit a lot. I know Gags isn't really like that, but I'm sure there are plenty of dudes on SJU's staff that are.

A lot of guys have that impression of John.  I can't speak for the current situation, but during my days, he was the first person to jump on a guy who screwed up, and he didn't exactly mince words or let it go, if you know what I mean.  He can be a real bear to deal with 

[OzJohnnie]

In fact, most of the decent coaches in my life were sort of A-holes that jumped in people's $hit a lot. I know Gags isn't really like that, but I'm sure there are plenty of dudes on SJU's staff that are.

A lot of guys have that impression of John.  I can't speak for the current situation, but during my days, he was the first person to jump on a guy who screwed up, and he didn't exactly mince words or let it go, if you know what I mean.  He can be a real bear to deal with 

He's very demanding and quick to highlight what displeases him in no uncertain terms but isn't a belittling a-hole about it, kind of like my wife (isn't that right honey? (just in case this comment caches and you see it later...))

[corn horn]

I cringe a little bit when I hear about D3 being the home of the real "student-athlete", or the last truly amateurs playing only for the love of the game.  Weren't we just having a debate about a hike in ticket prices?  The Tommies and Johnnies both have radio contracts and their game drew 16,000 people last year.  This isn't amateur athletics.  If you've ever seen chariots of fire, the administrator of the college thought it was wrong for Abrahams to hire a personal track coach.

I see, if you charge admission or draw large crowds, the participants aren't amateurs?  It would seem that anyone other than parents in attendance taints the matter and the players cannot be student-atheletes.  This makes pee wee soccer and Northwestern football the paradigm I guess.  Love the reference to Chariots of Fire; running around a quad in leather shoes at Oxford in the 1920s is a fitting image for your arguments here.  (But weren't they trying out for the Olympics - those games that draw large crowds and charge admission?)

UST actually drew more to their last playoff game than I would bet st. john's has ever drew up in collegeville for a playoff game.

Why don't you research that and get back to us?

D3 is certainly amateur in comparison to D1 and D2. Sure, there's recruiting and gate receipts and investments in facilities, but that goes for high school too. Last HS game I went to set me back $7.00. Does that make our HS athletes pros? Of course not.

[AO]

I cringe a little bit when I hear about D3 being the home of the real "student-athlete", or the last truly amateurs playing only for the love of the game.  Weren't we just having a debate about a hike in ticket prices?  The Tommies and Johnnies both have radio contracts and their game drew 16,000 people last year.  This isn't amateur athletics.  If you've ever seen chariots of fire, the administrator of the college thought it was wrong for Abrahams to hire a personal track coach.

I see, if you charge admission or draw large crowds, the participants aren't amateurs?  It would seem that anyone other than parents in attendance taints the matter and the players cannot be student-atheletes.  This makes pee wee soccer and Northwestern football the paradigm I guess.  Love the reference to Chariots of Fire; running around a quad in leather shoes at Oxford in the 1920s is a fitting image for your arguments here.  (But weren't they trying out for the Olympics - those games that draw large crowds and charge admission?)

UST actually drew more to their last playoff game than I would bet st. john's has ever drew up in collegeville for a playoff game.

Why don't you research that and get back to us?

D3 is certainly amateur in comparison to D1 and D2. Sure, there's recruiting and gate receipts and investments in facilities, but that goes for high school too. Last HS game I went to set me back $7.00. Does that make our HS athletes pros? Of course not.

Of course it does, they're just not worth as much as the NFL or D1.  I don't pay admission at a HS or D3 football game to watch the tennis players or even really the football coaches.  as we found out recently, Adrian and Chad are worth much more than Leslie.  There's nothing wrong with charging admission, the amateur way is not "holy".

[WashedUp]

I see, if you charge admission or draw large crowds, the participants aren't amateurs?

I guess that makes Carleton the last bastion of amateurism 

[OzJohnnie]

I honestly can't figure out what you're saying, AO. Are you arguing with yourself?  Do gate receipts flag professionalism or not?  And how can you tell?  High school is ok because....?  While DIII bad because...?  Because they take in more?

It seems that you're arguing that there is some threshold which you know when you see it.  While convincing to you, the Professionalism Threshold of AO is about as convincing as the mythical powers of unicorns to the rest of us.

[AO]

Amateur=fine 
Professional=Great
D3=Great

Amateur=pick up leagues, other volunteer coached and played sports
Professional=Money

Carleton=paid coaches/administrators=professional

hope this helps clear it up.

[OzJohnnie]

My prediction for the (amateur) weekend (keep those gate receipts down below the PToAO, Cobbers) is 24 - 14 in CC's favor.  I feel dirty.  For the first time that I can definitively identify, I'm picking against the Johnnies.  I just think that the cobbers will muscle them on the line and grind through the Johnnies.  And I don't think the Johnnie offense will be able to throw up enough points to beat the 24 that the Johnnie defense will let in.

[OzJohnnie]

I pay entry to my nine year old's gymnastics competitions. Is she a professional?  I pay a donation at my 12 year old's clarinet recital to cover church hall rental.  Professional?  I pay a fee per game of indoor soccer which covers insurance and refs.  Am I the same competitive status as Beckham?

[Retired Old Rat]

Oz, are you up early or late?