FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[TRU]

I post very rarely. As a junior on the 1967 SJU team (for those of you that do not know the last time SJU had more losses than wins in a year) I think the time has come for the program to take a look outside.
The talent is not there UST, Bethel and St. Oalf have better talent and will only keep getting better. I do not follow what goes on in Minnesota football but is someone like Mike Grant a possiblity?

Reflecting on the 67 season - no blow out or last second losses and the defensive played very well but it took nearly all year to find a QB. Hard to believe a 63-7 beating by UST. Glad I do not have to show up at work anymore in Minneapolis.

[WashedUp]

Q: was this the most lopided loss in the Gagliardi era?

*****************
I do think SJU may have found it QB in the 4th quarter... #4 Krebsbach looked far better than either of the other two guys.

If the documents are complete on the SJU site, it's the largest loss of the Gagliardi era that I saw.  The closest was a 56-8 loss to Mount Union on December 4th, 1993.  The largest loss in SJU history (that I saw) was 82-0 to Olaf on October 25th, 1930.

[Pat Coleman]

I looked through that list in the fourth quarter today, too, and that's what I came up with.

[DoubleO]

Highlight of the game was the Johnnie coed who could barely walk on her own as we left 2 minutes into the second quarter.  Her friends were trying valiantly to hide her drunkenness but to no avail.  It took me back to college and was humorous to watch.

oAs.

After the Jays' performance today, could you blame her?

She was hammered and I believe I watched Wartman heckle her too.  At least she had an excuse for being inept.

Faunch, although I am biased I am really trying to look at your opinion on the seating behind the visiting bench at Palmer Field with an objective eye. I really can't see a problem with it. I do admit that there is a fine line that should not be crossed with regards to the hazing of an opposing team, but I just can't get past the opinion that it is all a part of the home field advantage. With that said, I think security placed in between this area and the bench (which there appeared to be from your pics) should be able to ensure that this line is not crossed. I do not have a problem with college kids heckling the players of opposing teams. It happens everywhere.

As regards to Morse or Wartman, I question whether or not your own players/former players are held to this same standard. You really think Wartman or anyone else is out of line getting a laugh from or hazing a co-ed that has had a little too much pre-game? Saying Morse should re-evaluate who he hangs out with because you didn't care for his buddy is pretty ridiculous. If the guy was vulgar or crossing that proverbial line, than that's another story. With all those adults around them and a SPPD right in front of them, I have a hard time believing that line would've been breached.

[sfury]

Some thoughts on a game I didn't watch or listen to because I was walking through a tsunami in NYC without an umbrella.

* Maybe Caruso remembers the story in The Sweet Season from Mark Dienhart. He coached the Tommies during the 56-21 game. His defensive coordinator, Jerry Miller, died in 1998 and the last words he told Dienhart were "I'll never forgive you for not scoring 60 on Gagliardi."

* Imagine if the Internet had been around in 1986. Not only would there have been entire messageboards dedicated to people who were convinced Night Court was the greatest comedy in the history of television, but on d3football we would have had all kind of folks calling for Gagliardi to, perhaps, step down. Maybe it's time. It's for the best. After all, they went 4-4-1, gave up 56 - at home - to St. Thomas and tied with...wait for it...Macalester! Disgraceful. Time for a young gun to take over the sidelines. The Johnnies are complacent, fat cats, not hungry and haven't won a damn national title in nine years. Thankfully the internet wasn't around. Thankfully, fans don't make coaching decisions. Obviously there are differences - 25 birthdays, in fact - but guess what, the Johnnies have been a bit down at times. They aren't Mount Union post 1993. Sometimes they have talent to compete for national titles. Other times they have talent to compete only for conference titles. Occasionally, they don't even have that much talent. You can see this season as some type of institutional flaw or you can think that, yeah, this sometimes happens at this level to everyone but one school, but that chances are things will rebound. When it does, John will probably be there on the sidelines. But, no, he can't go on forever, and if anyone wants that day to come sooner rather than later, well, I don't know what to say. I know, that attitude is what's gotten SJU into this situation. For the record, I'm not a recruiter or coach so that argument shouldn't be directed at me or my naive thoughts.

* It's fun reading Johnnie fans during the good times talk about how SJU football is what's right with college athletics, then read them (not necessarily the same people) talk about wanting Gagliardi to step down when there are tougher times. I mean, it has been two full seasons since his last unbeaten regular season, after all. And they got their butts kicked today. New coach! We're so unlike those Division I heathens.

* St. Thomas ran the score up today. And? Who cares? It's not classless, just as it wasn't classless when the Johnnies have thrown with huge leads or gone for two when scoring 60, 70 points. And they have obviously done it. It's college, no one's feelings are going to be hurt. Don't like it, stop them. Fans and opposing teams shouldn't have complained when the Johnnies did it in the past and the Johnnies shouldn't care about it today. The Tommies are a juggernaut this year. This is what juggernauts do. The 1993 team humiliated everyone...then got embarrassed at Mount Union (I know, muddy field). The Johnnies took their punishment that day, they'll take it today. Hopefully sometime soon they're again dishing it out and can hear people whine instead of doing the whining. Worth noting: a year after the Johnnies beat the Tommies 69-13, they needed some help from the gods and officials to beat them 35-34 in 1994.

* By the way, Bethel 7-3 in 2009, 5-5 in 2008. Should Johnson have been told it was time for new blood?

* Faunch, you've mentioned John's comments at the 2009 luncheon a few times, the ones where he said they'd wait for the Tommies to screw up. You're making it sound as if that was the gameplan for the last three seasons or the ones before that. I think you're taking his comments a bit too literally. It's a good line and one he knows get laughs and on some level he probably believed it. But he's the same guy who always talks about how every team has good players, they don't pull these guys off the streets, etc. And if we're taking luncheon comments as proof that the Johnnies' ways are outdated or arrogant, then we should also believe that: John doesn't really remember what the stage is after you forget to zip up or zip down and that he actually contemplates suicide after each loss.

* I'll read a lot of online comments in the coming days on a variety of topics, on youtube, yahoo, and newspaper websites. Most of the comments will be really, really, really dumb. But nothing I read there will be as ridiculous as Almost Ex's "best case" scenarios post from earlier, where he: wants John to step down, preferably on Monday morning. And, failing that, a big-dollar donor - Bill Sexton? - should make it clear he should step down. It's practically a parody. Wait, was it satire?

Long game. Tough season. But today's loss is turning out to not be the most embarrassing thing about the day - it's the sentiments of some Johnnie faithful. Speaking of tarnished...

[PurpleReign]

You know what St. Johns Johnnie fans, how about you take a stroll back in time and read all the garbage you people have posted over the years.  Now you get your $ss handed to you, and you are whining and complaining about a little heckling?  Here is the deal, you people are not so arrogant and pompous anymore.  This could be any team in the MIAC falling on hard times, and the rest of the schools, would be "oh well, they had their run, but they will be back."  You can bet your ass, that every team in the MIAC (except St. Johns) is smiling at the result and outcome of today's game.  As for me, I want to see a strong football team at St. Johns, it makes the MIAC that much better and raises the profile of the league.

Here is the most impressive aspect of what happened today.  Last night, I watch one wide receiver absolutely dismantle our high school team defense.  During the high school game, I sent an email to Blane Tetreault , the St. Thomas recruiting coordinator, telling him about this wide receiver.  By 8:00 this morning, I had already received a follow-up email from Blane, thanking me for the information and that he would forward this on to the person that recruits the southwestern Metro area.  Blane doesn't know me from Jack, and could have just said, "who the hell is this, we don't need any help or input from anybody outside of our program."  Do you think this kind of focus is occurring at St. Johns - it doesn't seem to be.

As for heckling, I had a few heated conversations with Tommie fans that were rude and obnoxious towards St. Johns fans.  We are better than that, and most of the guys I talked with, agreed.

[Robert Zimmerman]

Well, said SFury, well said.  I would have been a member of a Nightcourt message board if the internet was around in 1986.  However, you don't even have to go back that far. Things were not going well in Collegeville during my senior year in 1997.  After a final play hail mary loss during the season opener against Bemidji St., SJU lossed to Augsburg, GAC for homecoming, and then lost a close one against UST at the Dome.  Neither Phil Kern nor Doug Leiser set the world on fire at quarterback.  The defense was average at best (the lone bright spot was All-American defensive lineman Matt Griffith, who at times played point guard for a fine intramural team, but I digress) and all you heard around campus was the game had passed Gagliardi by.  The expectations had been so high because of the enormous success of the teams from the early 90's.  However, some players got some valuable playing time and we all know what happened between '98 and '03.  I am not guaranteeing that SJU will have another run like those six seasons, but one down season does not necessarily end a great program.  I am a patient guy and will wait a couple seasons to see if the trend continues or SJU rebounds.  I have a lot of patients as a football fan; probably because I am a Viking's fan or maybe it is because the football team at the high school I teach at has won 9 games during the 14 years I have worked there.

[sju56321]

Interesting comments-although everyone is entitled to their own opinion-as this is an opinion board after all. It seems the one constant from most comments is that SJU needs to evaluate the talent they have secured and how they secure talent/players in the future. The one thing none of the us posters knows is what went on at SJU in '86 or '97 behind closed doors. Maybe the coaches and administration re-evaluated how they recruited/or who would be accepted. Perhaps that is what most of us are saying now, look at everything again.
Should John leave his position-of course not. Cycles happen-but those in charge cannot put their heads in the sand and say well it has worked out before, it will work itself out again.
Kinda funny that those of us who posted last year that we saw trouble were dismissed and even challenged as not true SJU alumi and always negative. Um.......

[sfury]

As we continue our Johnnie vs. Johnnie with everyone else looking on and laughing battles, I would love to hear from any Royals who were at the game today. They were apparently up 28-10 before losing to the Oles. Pretty crazy. I'm picturing the St. Olaf radio guy calling the end of that one and my ears are bleeding from here.

[DustySJU]

Not that anyone cares but I just heard College Football Commentator Jesse Palmer refer to Michigan as a "subdivision" team.  Just when I thought I had this all figured out Palmer throws out the "subdivision" comment and I have to run to my computer just to make sure I'm not crazy.  Sure enough, "subdivision" refers to the North Dakota State's and Appalachian State's of the college football world.  My point is college football makes it so darn difficult to figure out who's who not even the guys who do this for a living know what they'r talking about. 

Kinda like the Legends and Leaders of the Big Ten..... who will ever know which division they really belong to?

As for today's ass kicking, it's more of a sad tale for St. John's than a stunning victory for UST.  Let me be exact here, UST is better than SJU at every position however the performance by the Johnnies was less about superb execution by the Toms (which it was) and more about a very outmatched opponent (which the Johnnies are).  I'm more sad for the dismal state of affairs at SJU than I am by the extremely lopsided losss.

Hats off to the Tommies as they are primed for a significant run in the playoffs and quite honestly don't appear to have a weakness anywhere.  The Johnnies didn't come close to competing today nor have they for the majority of the season.

This is a program headed for the ditch.

For the rest of the MIAC that's prolly pretty good news.


Developing....

[PurpleReign]

Not that anyone cares but I just heard College Football Commentator Jesse Palmer refer to Michigan as a "subdivision" team.  Just when I thought I had this all figured out Palmer throws out the "subdivision" comment and I have to run to my computer just to make sure I'm not crazy.  Sure enough, "subdivision" refers to the North Dakota State's and Appalachian State's of the college football world.  My point is college football makes it so darn difficult to figure out who's who not even the guys who do this for a living know what they'r talking about. 

Kinda like the Legends and Leaders of the Big Ten..... who will ever know which division they really belong to?

As for today's ass kicking, it's more of a sad tale for St. John's than a stunning victory for UST.  Let me be exact here, UST is better than SJU at every position however the performance by the Johnnies was less about superb execution by the Toms (which it was) and more about a very outmatched opponent (which the Johnnies are).  I'm more sad for the dismal state of affairs at SJU than I am by the extremely lopsided losss.

Hats off to the Tommies as they are primed for a significant run in the playoffs and quite honestly don't appear to have a weakness anywhere.  The Johnnies didn't come close to competing today nor have they for the majority of the season.

This is a program headed for the ditch.

For the rest of the MIAC that's prolly pretty good news.


Developing....

DustySJU, I don't agree that this is good news for the rest of the MIAC.  St. Johns is a high profile D3 football program and I want our entire conference to be strong.  As a die hard Tommie fan, I still have high regards for St. Johns, my best friend in high school was a great kicker for St. Johns and we lost him to cancer a few years back.  I still miss "Prybs" and remember some of his great St. Johns game winning kicks.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

one last comment, and I hope no one flags me for piling on here.....for those of you beefing about the ticket price, look at it this way: you only paid $1 per touchdown scored   

more seriously, though, I agree with Purple Rain...both UST & SJU need the other to be strong, as beating strong teams prepares you for deep NCAA playoff runs (same for Bethel and any other MIAC team with post-season aspirations down the road). So get up off the canvas, Johnnies, be like Rocky and come back slugging & swinging (just don't beat us 63-7)

[AlmostEx]

sfury -- nice to see you came in out of the rain, but you are still all wet!

How so?  You made my point with your own words -- "Obviously there are differences - 25 birthdays"  I drive a 20 year old car, and I can assure you it is nothing like the day it rolled off the line!  And, your current "model" rolled off the line 50+ years ago!

Trust me or not, I mean no disrespect to JG, having met JG and trusted a son to him and SJU.   Change is sitting in the living room and begging to be acknowledged, that choice is yours and those who have more of an investment in SJU than I.

Best regards.

[retagent]

Excellent points fury and Zimm. I've been around longer than both of you and have seen ups and downs. Usually, it's not this far down, but there always seems to be a rebound. Let's hope so. Take your whippin' like men, and come back tomorrow.

[sfury]

Excellent points fury and Zimm. I've been around longer than both of you and have seen ups and downs. Usually, it's not this far down, but there always seems to be a rebound. Let's hope so. Take your whippin' like men, and come back tomorrow.

What we need is the fan who saw that 82-0 loss to St. Olaf to post here and say he's seen worse times than today.