FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Mr.MIAC]

I'm a longtime lurker and first time poster.  I'll give my two cents on a few topics discussed over the past few weeks.

MIAC: I don't think the MIAC has gone downhill so much as UST has significantly raised the bar over the past couple of years and other schools have yet to catch up.  I think UST really is good enough to warrant their #3 national ranking and it wouldn't be surprising if they made a run for the national championship this year.  Bethel offers the only real competition in the MIAC and this week's game should be fun to watch. 

UST: UST is on a totally different trajectory than other MIAC schools that can't compete because of lacking funds, interest, or appeal.  UST has a far larger endowment than most other MIAC schools and with the success of the current $500 million fundraising campaign the disparity is growing.  Most other schools simply can't keep up when some UST departments/programs have a larger endowment than their entire institution.  Growth of the UST campus has accelerated over the past two decades and their facilities make most other MIAC schools look second-rate.  Buildings like the new athletic complex and student center are a real draw for prospective students and collegiate athletes in particular; given the option, many athletes would choose the D-I facilities at UST.  Athletics are a real focus at UST and this is true across a range of sports.  A couple of MIAC schools, Carleton and St. Olaf, could offer similar campus amenities because of their strong endowments, but neither school places nearly the same emphasis on athletics and this discourages top athletes.  UST's scale and scope is far different than any other MIAC school.  Not only is the student body larger, but UST is a national university with a business school, law school, and robust graduate offerings.  Next to the U of M, UST is probably the best known academic institution in MN across a range of fields.  This only increases its profile among prospective parents and athletes.  UST has a different strategy than other MIAC schools and this helps them recruit from a large pool of athletes.  You may have noticed that much of the current fundraising campaign is dedicated to raising the faculty profile and significantly increasing scholarships.  This is part of UST's strategy to grow into a large, highly selective urban university.  Their target is Boston College and as these changes occur UST will be more attractive to prospective athletes.  As UST grows and becomes even more prestigious, it will be difficult for other MIAC schools to keep up on recruiting and fundraising.         

SJU:  I agree that John will not be asked to leave, but in all likelihood he will choose to make an exit into retirement pretty quickly.  With all the infighting among the current coaching staff and problems that generally come though internal promotion, his replacement would best be drawn from outside SJU.  A few posters alluded to this point, but the problem at SJU is larger than the football team.  All the hysteria among SJU fans this season is in my view about more than losing a few football games.  I think that many SJU fans and alumni fear that without a nationally ranked football program SJU will be viewed simply as an average regional school without much growth potential and little national reputation.  If SJU football goes downhill then the magic of Clemens Field won't matter.  How many prospective students will see the magic in consistently losing?  If the football program diminishes then in all likelihood over time so will SJU.  Unlike UST, SJU does not enjoy most of the advantages mentioned above.  A large part of its appeal is connected to football; outside football it's largely known for its homemade bread and the St. Johns Bible project.  SJU may be a special place for its alumni, but the qualities that made this so are hard to convey to prospective students and donors.  With increased frequency prospective students will choose places like UST that have more to offer and donors, Catholic or otherwise, will follow what's perceived as success--they will give to UST.  If you look closely you can see that this already started happening a couple of decades ago.  I don't think that a sinking football program would change dynamics at SJU overnight, nor do I think SJU would go away.  Rather SJU would find it far more difficult to compete in many of the areas mentioned and over time it would increasingly become viewed as a second-tier option among private schools in the region.  Without football, why would prospective students and donors choose to get involved with SJU if they could be part of a MN institution more akin to Boston College? 

[USTBench]

I'm a longtime lurker and first time poster.  I'll give my two cents on a few topics discussed over the past few weeks.

MIAC: I don't think the MIAC has gone downhill so much as UST has significantly raised the bar over the past couple of years and other schools have yet to catch up.  I think UST really is good enough to warrant their #3 national ranking and it wouldn't be surprising if they made a run for the national championship this year.  Bethel offers the only real competition in the MIAC and this week's game should be fun to watch. 

UST: UST is on a totally different trajectory than other MIAC schools that can't compete because of lacking funds, interest, or appeal.  UST has a far larger endowment than most other MIAC schools and with the success of the current $500 million fundraising campaign the disparity is growing.  Most other schools simply can't keep up when some UST departments/programs have a larger endowment than their entire institution.  Growth of the UST campus has accelerated over the past two decades and their facilities make most other MIAC schools look second-rate.  Buildings like the new athletic complex and student center are a real draw for prospective students and collegiate athletes in particular; given the option, many athletes would choose the D-I facilities at UST.  Athletics are a real focus at UST and this is true across a range of sports.  A couple of MIAC schools, Carleton and St. Olaf, could offer similar campus amenities because of their strong endowments, but neither school places nearly the same emphasis on athletics and this discourages top athletes.  UST's scale and scope is far different than any other MIAC school.  Not only is the student body larger, but UST is a national university with a business school, law school, and robust graduate offerings.  Next to the U of M, UST is probably the best known academic institution in MN across a range of fields.  This only increases its profile among prospective parents and athletes.  UST has a different strategy than other MIAC schools and this helps them recruit from a large pool of athletes.  You may have noticed that much of the current fundraising campaign is dedicated to raising the faculty profile and significantly increasing scholarships.  This is part of UST's strategy to grow into a large, highly selective urban university.  Their target is Boston College and as these changes occur UST will be more attractive to prospective athletes.  As UST grows and becomes even more prestigious, it will be difficult for other MIAC schools to keep up on recruiting and fundraising.         

SJU:  I agree that John will not be asked to leave, but in all likelihood he will choose to make an exit into retirement pretty quickly.  With all the infighting among the current coaching staff and problems that generally come though internal promotion, his replacement would best be drawn from outside SJU.  A few posters alluded to this point, but the problem at SJU is larger than the football team.  All the hysteria among SJU fans this season is in my view about more than losing a few football games.  I think that many SJU fans and alumni fear that without a nationally ranked football program SJU will be viewed simply as an average regional school without much growth potential and little national reputation.  If SJU football goes downhill then the magic of Clemens Field won't matter.  How many prospective students will see the magic in consistently losing?  If the football program diminishes then in all likelihood over time so will SJU.  Unlike UST, SJU does not enjoy most of the advantages mentioned above.  A large part of its appeal is connected to football; outside football it's largely known for its homemade bread and the St. Johns Bible project.  SJU may be a special place for its alumni, but the qualities that made this so are hard to convey to prospective students and donors.  With increased frequency prospective students will choose places like UST that have more to offer and donors, Catholic or otherwise, will follow what's perceived as success--they will give to UST.  If you look closely you can see that this already started happening a couple of decades ago.  I don't think that a sinking football program would change dynamics at SJU overnight, nor do I think SJU would go away.  Rather SJU would find it far more difficult to compete in many of the areas mentioned and over time it would increasingly become viewed as a second-tier option among private schools in the region.  Without football, why would prospective students and donors choose to get involved with SJU if they could be part of a MN institution more akin to Boston College?

Interesting analysis. What have you read or what do you know that asserts that UST's aspiration is to become MSP/StP's version of BC?

[tommiegun]

I'm a longtime lurker and first time poster.  I'll give my two cents on a few topics discussed over the past few weeks.

MIAC: I don't think the MIAC has gone downhill so much as UST has significantly raised the bar over the past couple of years and other schools have yet to catch up.  I think UST really is good enough to warrant their #3 national ranking and it wouldn't be surprising if they made a run for the national championship this year.  Bethel offers the only real competition in the MIAC and this week's game should be fun to watch. 

UST: UST is on a totally different trajectory than other MIAC schools that can't compete because of lacking funds, interest, or appeal.  UST has a far larger endowment than most other MIAC schools and with the success of the current $500 million fundraising campaign the disparity is growing.  Most other schools simply can't keep up when some UST departments/programs have a larger endowment than their entire institution.  Growth of the UST campus has accelerated over the past two decades and their facilities make most other MIAC schools look second-rate.  Buildings like the new athletic complex and student center are a real draw for prospective students and collegiate athletes in particular; given the option, many athletes would choose the D-I facilities at UST.  Athletics are a real focus at UST and this is true across a range of sports.  A couple of MIAC schools, Carleton and St. Olaf, could offer similar campus amenities because of their strong endowments, but neither school places nearly the same emphasis on athletics and this discourages top athletes.  UST's scale and scope is far different than any other MIAC school.  Not only is the student body larger, but UST is a national university with a business school, law school, and robust graduate offerings.  Next to the U of M, UST is probably the best known academic institution in MN across a range of fields.  This only increases its profile among prospective parents and athletes.  UST has a different strategy than other MIAC schools and this helps them recruit from a large pool of athletes.  You may have noticed that much of the current fundraising campaign is dedicated to raising the faculty profile and significantly increasing scholarships.  This is part of UST's strategy to grow into a large, highly selective urban university.  Their target is Boston College and as these changes occur UST will be more attractive to prospective athletes.  As UST grows and becomes even more prestigious, it will be difficult for other MIAC schools to keep up on recruiting and fundraising.         

SJU:  I agree that John will not be asked to leave, but in all likelihood he will choose to make an exit into retirement pretty quickly.  With all the infighting among the current coaching staff and problems that generally come though internal promotion, his replacement would best be drawn from outside SJU.  A few posters alluded to this point, but the problem at SJU is larger than the football team.  All the hysteria among SJU fans this season is in my view about more than losing a few football games.  I think that many SJU fans and alumni fear that without a nationally ranked football program SJU will be viewed simply as an average regional school without much growth potential and little national reputation.  If SJU football goes downhill then the magic of Clemens Field won't matter.  How many prospective students will see the magic in consistently losing?  If the football program diminishes then in all likelihood over time so will SJU.  Unlike UST, SJU does not enjoy most of the advantages mentioned above.  A large part of its appeal is connected to football; outside football it's largely known for its homemade bread and the St. Johns Bible project.  SJU may be a special place for its alumni, but the qualities that made this so are hard to convey to prospective students and donors.  With increased frequency prospective students will choose places like UST that have more to offer and donors, Catholic or otherwise, will follow what's perceived as success--they will give to UST.  If you look closely you can see that this already started happening a couple of decades ago.  I don't think that a sinking football program would change dynamics at SJU overnight, nor do I think SJU would go away.  Rather SJU would find it far more difficult to compete in many of the areas mentioned and over time it would increasingly become viewed as a second-tier option among private schools in the region.  Without football, why would prospective students and donors choose to get involved with SJU if they could be part of a MN institution more akin to Boston College?

Interesting analysis. What have you read or what do you know that asserts that UST's aspiration is to become MSP/StP's version of BC?

I largely agree with you Mr. Miac; pretty impressive first post.  Bench, when I was at UST not so very long ago (2008 grad; so I'm pre new College of Business building (for 2 years), pre-new athletics building, obviously way pre-new student center) I worked at the College of Business and the admissions office.  When I was at the admissions office, I was told, verbatim, to emphasize that UST's goals was to become "the Notre Dame of the north."  I thought that was odd, since Notre Dame is already the Notre Dame of the north, but thought what the hell, I'll try to sell that point.  This to me seems right in line with the philosophy of becoming Boston College that Mr. MIAC is talking about.

I became well acquainted with a business professor at UST through my job who told me some interesting things, too.  Circa late 90's UST was trying to decide what its next "expansion" would be.  The goal was to increase its national reputation and to raise money for the school.  Ultimately, the school decided to revive its law school and go down the academic reputation road (terrible idea, practically, imho, since all it did was introduce more lawyers into a saturated legal market).  At the time, the professor I knew said there was a significant push to go D-I in sports, as that would gain notoriety for the school and, he told me based on his research, would increase the school's revenues.  I'm not saying it is likely that that is where the school is heading, but based on the "BC/ND" rhetoric, it wouldn't shock me (it would surprise me). 

On a fun side note, me and my friends were driving back from a wedding and wondering how UST would expand its football stadium if it went D-1.  We were thinking you'd obviously add a ton of seating behind the north endzone.  We also thought it'd be awesome if you demolished the houses on the other side of Cretin, added to the main stadium on the west side of the field, and left Cretin intact; creating an "arched" tunnel stadium over Cretin - Are you kidding me - most unique stadium in D-1.  We also agreed we'd instantly refuse to recognize the Gophers as our native team.

(at work, no editing time, forgive typos)

[Mr.MIAC]

Interesting analysis. What have you read or what do you know that asserts that UST's aspiration is to become MSP/StP's version of BC?

I spoke to various members of the development team at a recent alumni/donor reception in my region.  Though they don't actively publicize the goal, when asked about a role model for long-term growth Boston College was mentioned.  I think in the abstract the goal, and Boston College in particular, has been talked about for some time.  Check out these links:

Link: http://www.stthomas.edu/magazine/2006/winter/Ships.html

Link: http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/12929021.html

[USTBench]

Tommiegun & Mr. Miac,

I always bit my tongue when it came to these issues over the last few years on this board, because it just makes the SJU posters irate. I've been hearing these rumors for a long time now, and I have to admit, when I played/matriculated at UST, I would never have believed it in a million years. I always thought, "Nice school sure, but there just doesn't seem to be much of a commitment to updating anything around here."

I'm starting to see how naive I truly was. I was a political science major who took a ton of classes in the windowless OEC, or found himself in Roach/Aquinas or treking to other less inspired parts of the south campus. UST just seemed kind of...okay. As a football player, our facilities were no better than my high school's.

I get back to about one or two home games a year now, and it blows me away every time. Every year it gets nicer and nicer and where initially, I wasn't inclined to believe UST's goal was to expand it's national reputation, now, I can't help believe they are doing anything but that.

It's fun to prognosticate because the consensus always seems to be "Yeah right...no chance UST will do this or that." But then you look at the endowment and the construction, and the absolute palaces they're building in downtown Minneapolis (I kicked myself for going to UND for law school when I saw UST's, then I remembered the tuition break I was getting) and St. Paul. I gotta say, at this point, very few things are going to surprise me at UST anymore.

[tommiegun]

Tommiegun & Mr. Miac,

I always bit my tongue when it came to these issues over the last few years on this board, because it just makes the SJU posters irate. I've been hearing these rumors for a long time now, and I have to admit, when I played/matriculated at UST, I would never have believed it in a million years. I always thought, "Nice school sure, but there just doesn't seem to be much of a commitment to updating anything around here."

I'm starting to see how naive I truly was. I was a political science major who took a ton of classes in the windowless OEC, or found himself in Roach/Aquinas or treking to other less inspired parts of the south campus. UST just seemed kind of...okay. As a football player, our facilities were no better than my high school's.

I get back to about one or two home games a year now, and it blows me away every time. Every year it gets nicer and nicer and where initially, I wasn't inclined to believe UST's goal was to expand it's national reputation, now, I can't help believe they are doing anything but that.

It's fun to prognosticate because the consensus always seems to be "Yeah right...no chance UST will do this or that." But then you look at the endowment and the construction, and the absolute palaces they're building in downtown Minneapolis (I kicked myself for going to UND for law school when I saw UST's, then I remembered the tuition break I was getting) and St. Paul. I gotta say, at this point, very few things are going to surprise me at UST anymore.

As to your substance, totally agree.  As to the bolded language, isn't that half the point of posting on here? 

[USTBench]

Tommiegun & Mr. Miac,

I always bit my tongue when it came to these issues over the last few years on this board, because it just makes the SJU posters irate. I've been hearing these rumors for a long time now, and I have to admit, when I played/matriculated at UST, I would never have believed it in a million years. I always thought, "Nice school sure, but there just doesn't seem to be much of a commitment to updating anything around here."

I'm starting to see how naive I truly was. I was a political science major who took a ton of classes in the windowless OEC, or found himself in Roach/Aquinas or treking to other less inspired parts of the south campus. UST just seemed kind of...okay. As a football player, our facilities were no better than my high school's.

I get back to about one or two home games a year now, and it blows me away every time. Every year it gets nicer and nicer and where initially, I wasn't inclined to believe UST's goal was to expand it's national reputation, now, I can't help believe they are doing anything but that.

It's fun to prognosticate because the consensus always seems to be "Yeah right...no chance UST will do this or that." But then you look at the endowment and the construction, and the absolute palaces they're building in downtown Minneapolis (I kicked myself for going to UND for law school when I saw UST's, then I remembered the tuition break I was getting) and St. Paul. I gotta say, at this point, very few things are going to surprise me at UST anymore.

As to your substance, totally agree.  As to the bolded language, isn't that half the point of posting on here? 

To a point...I still like to have a dialogue with the rational SJU rubes that have a semblance of objectivity in them.

Can't help but piss off the "Tommies Suck" no matter what you're talking about contingent. 

[DuffMan]

Excuse me.  I just threw up in my mouth.     Your suckiness has reached new levels.

[Mr.MIAC]

Tommiegun & Mr. Miac,

I always bit my tongue when it came to these issues over the last few years on this board, because it just makes the SJU posters irate. I've been hearing these rumors for a long time now, and I have to admit, when I played/matriculated at UST, I would never have believed it in a million years. I always thought, "Nice school sure, but there just doesn't seem to be much of a commitment to updating anything around here."

I'm starting to see how naive I truly was. I was a political science major who took a ton of classes in the windowless OEC, or found himself in Roach/Aquinas or treking to other less inspired parts of the south campus. UST just seemed kind of...okay. As a football player, our facilities were no better than my high school's.

I get back to about one or two home games a year now, and it blows me away every time. Every year it gets nicer and nicer and where initially, I wasn't inclined to believe UST's goal was to expand it's national reputation, now, I can't help believe they are doing anything but that.

It's fun to prognosticate because the consensus always seems to be "Yeah right...no chance UST will do this or that." But then you look at the endowment and the construction, and the absolute palaces they're building in downtown Minneapolis (I kicked myself for going to UND for law school when I saw UST's, then I remembered the tuition break I was getting) and St. Paul. I gotta say, at this point, very few things are going to surprise me at UST anymore.

As to your substance, totally agree.  As to the bolded language, isn't that half the point of posting on here? 

I agree as well, but don't know why SJU fans and alumni would get irate.  UST and SJU are strikingly different institutions and one of the few similarities is that they share a common faith.  Aside from a football rivalry, I don't think these two institutions should be viewed as competitors; in all likelihood UST leadership probably don't think too much about SJU outside of sports, so why should alumni.  Though I no longer live in the region, in my view having both UST and SJU in MN is a good thing.  The state benefits from a nationally ranked, urban university and a regionally strong, rural university; both serve varied purposes and have different aspirations, which are largely complementary. 

[Mr.MIAC]

Tommiegun & Mr. Miac,

I always bit my tongue when it came to these issues over the last few years on this board, because it just makes the SJU posters irate. I've been hearing these rumors for a long time now, and I have to admit, when I played/matriculated at UST, I would never have believed it in a million years. I always thought, "Nice school sure, but there just doesn't seem to be much of a commitment to updating anything around here."

I'm starting to see how naive I truly was. I was a political science major who took a ton of classes in the windowless OEC, or found himself in Roach/Aquinas or treking to other less inspired parts of the south campus. UST just seemed kind of...okay. As a football player, our facilities were no better than my high school's.

I get back to about one or two home games a year now, and it blows me away every time. Every year it gets nicer and nicer and where initially, I wasn't inclined to believe UST's goal was to expand it's national reputation, now, I can't help believe they are doing anything but that.

It's fun to prognosticate because the consensus always seems to be "Yeah right...no chance UST will do this or that." But then you look at the endowment and the construction, and the absolute palaces they're building in downtown Minneapolis (I kicked myself for going to UND for law school when I saw UST's, then I remembered the tuition break I was getting) and St. Paul. I gotta say, at this point, very few things are going to surprise me at UST anymore.

As to your substance, totally agree.  As to the bolded language, isn't that half the point of posting on here? 

To a point...I still like to have a dialogue with the rational SJU rubes that have a semblance of objectivity in them.

Can't help but piss off the "Tommies Suck" no matter what you're talking about contingent.

People in the "Tommies Suck" no matter what contingent fail to realize a pretty common fact of life.  Those who spend the most time tearing down the success of others while aggressively associating themselves with success tend to be the most insecure among us.  The "Tommies Suck" crowd is likely just having a hard time dealing with some of the realities mentioned in my initial post. 

[DustySJU]

I'm a longtime lurker and first time poster.  I'll give my two cents on a few topics discussed over the past few weeks.

MIAC: I don't think the MIAC has gone downhill so much as UST has significantly raised the bar over the past couple of years and other schools have yet to catch up.  I think UST really is good enough to warrant their #3 national ranking and it wouldn't be surprising if they made a run for the national championship this year.  Bethel offers the only real competition in the MIAC and this week's game should be fun to watch. 

UST: UST is on a totally different trajectory than other MIAC schools that can't compete because of lacking funds, interest, or appeal.  UST has a far larger endowment than most other MIAC schools and with the success of the current $500 million fundraising campaign the disparity is growing.  Most other schools simply can't keep up when some UST departments/programs have a larger endowment than their entire institution.  Growth of the UST campus has accelerated over the past two decades and their facilities make most other MIAC schools look second-rate.  Buildings like the new athletic complex and student center are a real draw for prospective students and collegiate athletes in particular; given the option, many athletes would choose the D-I facilities at UST.  Athletics are a real focus at UST and this is true across a range of sports.  A couple of MIAC schools, Carleton and St. Olaf, could offer similar campus amenities because of their strong endowments, but neither school places nearly the same emphasis on athletics and this discourages top athletes.  UST's scale and scope is far different than any other MIAC school.  Not only is the student body larger, but UST is a national university with a business school, law school, and robust graduate offerings.  Next to the U of M, UST is probably the best known academic institution in MN across a range of fields.  This only increases its profile among prospective parents and athletes.  UST has a different strategy than other MIAC schools and this helps them recruit from a large pool of athletes.  You may have noticed that much of the current fundraising campaign is dedicated to raising the faculty profile and significantly increasing scholarships.  This is part of UST's strategy to grow into a large, highly selective urban university.  Their target is Boston College and as these changes occur UST will be more attractive to prospective athletes.  As UST grows and becomes even more prestigious, it will be difficult for other MIAC schools to keep up on recruiting and fundraising.         

SJU:  I agree that John will not be asked to leave, but in all likelihood he will choose to make an exit into retirement pretty quickly.  With all the infighting among the current coaching staff and problems that generally come though internal promotion, his replacement would best be drawn from outside SJU.  A few posters alluded to this point, but the problem at SJU is larger than the football team.  All the hysteria among SJU fans this season is in my view about more than losing a few football games.  I think that many SJU fans and alumni fear that without a nationally ranked football program SJU will be viewed simply as an average regional school without much growth potential and little national reputation.  If SJU football goes downhill then the magic of Clemens Field won't matter.  How many prospective students will see the magic in consistently losing?  If the football program diminishes then in all likelihood over time so will SJU.  Unlike UST, SJU does not enjoy most of the advantages mentioned above.  A large part of its appeal is connected to football; outside football it's largely known for its homemade bread and the St. Johns Bible project.  SJU may be a special place for its alumni, but the qualities that made this so are hard to convey to prospective students and donors.  With increased frequency prospective students will choose places like UST that have more to offer and donors, Catholic or otherwise, will follow what's perceived as success--they will give to UST.  If you look closely you can see that this already started happening a couple of decades ago.  I don't think that a sinking football program would change dynamics at SJU overnight, nor do I think SJU would go away.  Rather SJU would find it far more difficult to compete in many of the areas mentioned and over time it would increasingly become viewed as a second-tier option among private schools in the region.  Without football, why would prospective students and donors choose to get involved with SJU if they could be part of a MN institution more akin to Boston College?

Interesting analysis. What have you read or what do you know that asserts that UST's aspiration is to become MSP/StP's version of BC?

So special.... maybe you can go play in your own sandbox now.

I'm throwing up in my mouth too... smarmy, presumptuous.

Why anyone would want to go anyplace other than the new Boston College is beyond me.... pleasseee... talk about a bunch of sheeple.... walk ascross the street with your highschool diploma and get your college degree at the "LifeTime Fitness" of the MIAC. 

Wow, a guy would never have to leave the neighborhood, ever.

[GoldandBlueBU]

Taking these new bits of information into account, I see no reason for the rest of the MIAC not to go dormant until UST goes D1.

[Mr.MIAC]

I'm a longtime lurker and first time poster.  I'll give my two cents on a few topics discussed over the past few weeks.

MIAC: I don't think the MIAC has gone downhill so much as UST has significantly raised the bar over the past couple of years and other schools have yet to catch up.  I think UST really is good enough to warrant their #3 national ranking and it wouldn't be surprising if they made a run for the national championship this year.  Bethel offers the only real competition in the MIAC and this week's game should be fun to watch. 

UST: UST is on a totally different trajectory than other MIAC schools that can't compete because of lacking funds, interest, or appeal.  UST has a far larger endowment than most other MIAC schools and with the success of the current $500 million fundraising campaign the disparity is growing.  Most other schools simply can't keep up when some UST departments/programs have a larger endowment than their entire institution.  Growth of the UST campus has accelerated over the past two decades and their facilities make most other MIAC schools look second-rate.  Buildings like the new athletic complex and student center are a real draw for prospective students and collegiate athletes in particular; given the option, many athletes would choose the D-I facilities at UST.  Athletics are a real focus at UST and this is true across a range of sports.  A couple of MIAC schools, Carleton and St. Olaf, could offer similar campus amenities because of their strong endowments, but neither school places nearly the same emphasis on athletics and this discourages top athletes.  UST's scale and scope is far different than any other MIAC school.  Not only is the student body larger, but UST is a national university with a business school, law school, and robust graduate offerings.  Next to the U of M, UST is probably the best known academic institution in MN across a range of fields.  This only increases its profile among prospective parents and athletes.  UST has a different strategy than other MIAC schools and this helps them recruit from a large pool of athletes.  You may have noticed that much of the current fundraising campaign is dedicated to raising the faculty profile and significantly increasing scholarships.  This is part of UST's strategy to grow into a large, highly selective urban university.  Their target is Boston College and as these changes occur UST will be more attractive to prospective athletes.  As UST grows and becomes even more prestigious, it will be difficult for other MIAC schools to keep up on recruiting and fundraising.         

SJU:  I agree that John will not be asked to leave, but in all likelihood he will choose to make an exit into retirement pretty quickly.  With all the infighting among the current coaching staff and problems that generally come though internal promotion, his replacement would best be drawn from outside SJU.  A few posters alluded to this point, but the problem at SJU is larger than the football team.  All the hysteria among SJU fans this season is in my view about more than losing a few football games.  I think that many SJU fans and alumni fear that without a nationally ranked football program SJU will be viewed simply as an average regional school without much growth potential and little national reputation.  If SJU football goes downhill then the magic of Clemens Field won't matter.  How many prospective students will see the magic in consistently losing?  If the football program diminishes then in all likelihood over time so will SJU.  Unlike UST, SJU does not enjoy most of the advantages mentioned above.  A large part of its appeal is connected to football; outside football it's largely known for its homemade bread and the St. Johns Bible project.  SJU may be a special place for its alumni, but the qualities that made this so are hard to convey to prospective students and donors.  With increased frequency prospective students will choose places like UST that have more to offer and donors, Catholic or otherwise, will follow what's perceived as success--they will give to UST.  If you look closely you can see that this already started happening a couple of decades ago.  I don't think that a sinking football program would change dynamics at SJU overnight, nor do I think SJU would go away.  Rather SJU would find it far more difficult to compete in many of the areas mentioned and over time it would increasingly become viewed as a second-tier option among private schools in the region.  Without football, why would prospective students and donors choose to get involved with SJU if they could be part of a MN institution more akin to Boston College?

Interesting analysis. What have you read or what do you know that asserts that UST's aspiration is to become MSP/StP's version of BC?

So special.... maybe you can go play in your own sandbox now.

I'm throwing up in my mouth too... smarmy, presumptuous.

Why anyone would want to go anyplace other than the new Boston College is beyond me.... pleasseee... talk about a bunch of sheeple.... walk ascross the street with your highschool diploma and get your college degree at the "LifeTime Fitness" of the MIAC. 

Wow, a guy would never have to leave the neighborhood, ever.

So it looks like you're giving me low points for style (smarmy, presumptuous) while choosing not to address any of the substantive points.  I never said that everyone would want to go to UST over SJU or any other MIAC institution.  There are plenty of great regional, rural schools in the country—SJU is one of them—and people are very happy to call them home.  I don't know why you would call those who aspire to attend one of the premier universities in the region "sheeple" and based on the few thousand alumni in my region (East Coast) a good number have left the neighborhood.   

[Retired Old Rat]

While there is still a large overlap in the target market of St. John's and St. Thomas, I think the overlap is shrinking.  St. John's was, and is, comfortable with what it is and what it has to offer.  That said, we've also changed with the times and must continue to change with the times.  St. John's will be just fine.

St. Thomas aspires to something they are not.  Good for them.

[DustySJU]

While there is still a large overlap in the target market of St. John's and St. Thomas, I think the overlap is shrinking.  St. John's was, and is, comfortable with what it is and what it has to offer.  That said, we've also changed with the times and must continue to change with the times.  St. John's will be just fine.

St. Thomas aspires to something they are not.  Good for them.

ROR;  Are your comments a firm "back hand" or an all out compliment for UST?