FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[OzJohnnie]

Make sure to pick up the tissues when your little circle of Tommies finishes.

I love the style, though, of framing anyone who disagrees with you, particularly Johnnies, as "SJU rubes" with no "semblance of objectivity".  Anyone who thinks that UST is anything other than BC on the Mississippi must be not only filled with hatred, but delusional as well.

And Mr MIAC quietly coming in trying to be a neutral and objective source... well that lasted one paragraph until SJU was labeled "an average regional school"  that has nothing if it doesn't have football (OMG!  So original!).  And contrasting silly little SJU against the BC on the Mississip.  Well, that's just so... grown up and sophisticated, isn't it?  You wrap up your put downs in "smarmy" sentence construction and pat yourself on the back.  I'm so impressed.

You know why you have been a long time lurker and first time poster?  Because Tommies suck (Yeah, I went there.  The Truth hurts, even when you try to preempt it, doesn't it?).  Because outside of two or three stalwarts of your institution, your school doesn't have the character to build pride and instill it in those that go there.  Tommies don't come to these boards unless the lockers are shiny and the team is winning.

The alumni of St John's have no problem communicating why SJU is a "special place", but I can clearly understand why you have a difficult time understanding that special mystique after spending your years in the culturally vapid dog pile on Summit.  The greatness of UST's drive to BC prominence lies in dedication to all athletics and crazy cool construction?  I think that your alumni will have a great time explaining why UST is a special place: We have great buildings and want to be just like other institutions you can go to.  Who has the harder message?  The institution with the unique call to something special or the institution that is just like another one, but not as good?

You want to come out criticize SJU, have the balls to do it straight up.  Don't stand shivering behind "human shields" like the shared culture of our Catholicism.  Courage, as I'm sure you are well aware, is one of the four Cardinal virtues.

[Retired Old Rat]

While there is still a large overlap in the target market of St. John's and St. Thomas, I think the overlap is shrinking.  St. John's was, and is, comfortable with what it is and what it has to offer.  That said, we've also changed with the times and must continue to change with the times.  St. John's will be just fine.

St. Thomas aspires to something they are not.  Good for them.

ROR;  Are your comments a firm "back hand" or an all out compliment for UST? 

Dusty, what I was trying to say was that we know what makes us special and we are happy with that.  And we think that the essence of what makes us special has and will transcend time and generations.  It's what explains a punk kid like TDT hanging out with a sage like daWick.

Make your own conclusions about Boston College/St. Paul Campus.

I also found the Notre Dame comparison interesting.  With all due deference to tmerten, I'll take St. John's over Notre Dame any day.  I'm Irish Catholic and I think they are a pompous self absorbed bunch.

[DoubleO]

There are way too many obstacles to overcome for UST to go DI. The chatter has been around since the 80's, so I don't lend much credence to it. I don't doubt that the Administration has done some feasibility studies to investigate it, but I think it has been shelved long ago.

It is nice to see THE University invest some capital in the athletic programs and I have been told they are satisfied with the ROI. My take is that they want to be recognized annually as one of the best programs (in all sports) in DIII and (much to the SJU rubes dismay) they are fully aware of the investment it's going to take.

In the meantime, I am thoroughly enjoying the fruits of their labor.

On a side note, I was recently at a freshman football game of two strong Chicago Catholic school programs wearing a UST football shirt and had a parent of one of the players stop me and tell me that his older son (who is a sr and was all state as a jr) is strongly considering going to UST. He went on to say that he has a number of scholarship offers, but is considered to be a 'tweener' and is not sure how much he'd see the field on the DI level, so he thinks UST is the best option. He absolutely sang the praises of the coaching staff (especially Caruso) and of the facilities. A little bit later he brought his son over to introduce him and we had a nice chat about the recent game against the Johns, among other things. He said that he knows of quite a few guys from his conference that are in positions similar to his who are considering UST and said there is a 'palpable buzz' regarding UST's program with Chicago kids. It was good to hear. Apparently, those locker rooms o make a difference, huh?

[USTBench]

Make sure to pick up the tissues when your little circle of Tommies finishes.

I love the style, though, of framing anyone who disagrees with you, particularly Johnnies, as "SJU rubes" with no "semblance of objectivity".  Anyone who thinks that UST is anything other than BC on the Mississippi must be not only filled with hatred, but delusional as well.

And Mr MIAC quietly coming in trying to be a neutral and objective source... well that lasted one paragraph until SJU was labeled "an average regional school"  that has nothing if it doesn't have football (OMG!  So original!).  And contrasting silly little SJU against the BC on the Mississip.  Well, that's just so... grown up and sophisticated, isn't it?  You wrap up your put downs in "smarmy" sentence construction and pat yourself on the back.  I'm so impressed.

You know why you have been a long time lurker and first time poster?  Because Tommies suck (Yeah, I went there.  The Truth hurts, even when you try to preempt it, doesn't it?).  Because outside of two or three stalwarts of your institution, your school doesn't have the character to build pride and instill it in those that go there.  Tommies don't come to these boards unless the lockers are shiny and the team is winning.

The alumni of St John's have no problem communicating why SJU is a "special place", but I can clearly understand why you have a difficult time understanding that special mystique after spending your years in the culturally vapid dog pile on Summit.  The greatness of UST's drive to BC prominence lies in dedication to all athletics and crazy cool construction?  I think that your alumni will have a great time explaining why UST is a special place: We have great buildings and want to be just like other institutions you can go to.  Who has the harder message?  The institution with the unique call to something special or the institution that is just like another one, but not as good?

You want to come out criticize SJU, have the balls to do it straight up.  Don't stand shivering behind "human shields" like the shared culture of our Catholicism.  Courage, as I'm sure you are well aware, is one of the four Cardinal virtues.

"You know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well-scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition has given you some length of bone, but you're not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you, Oz? And that accent you've tried so desperately to shed? Pure Central Minnesota. What's your father? Is he a lumberjack? Does he stink of the woods? You know how quickly the boys found you ... all those tedious sticky fumblings in the back seats of cars ... while you could only dream of getting out ... getting anywhere ... getting all the way to Australia."

Duffman is good with movie quotes, maybe he'll get this one. He nailed the Office Space paraphrase when Oz compared UST to the Nazis.

[Mr.MIAC]

Make sure to pick up the tissues when your little circle of Tommies finishes.

I love the style, though, of framing anyone who disagrees with you, particularly Johnnies, as "SJU rubes" with no "semblance of objectivity".  Anyone who thinks that UST is anything other than BC on the Mississippi must be not only filled with hatred, but delusional as well.

And Mr MIAC quietly coming in trying to be a neutral and objective source... well that lasted one paragraph until SJU was labeled "an average regional school"  that has nothing if it doesn't have football (OMG!  So original!).  And contrasting silly little SJU against the BC on the Mississip.  Well, that's just so... grown up and sophisticated, isn't it?  You wrap up your put downs in "smarmy" sentence construction and pat yourself on the back.  I'm so impressed.

You know why you have been a long time lurker and first time poster?  Because Tommies suck (Yeah, I went there.  The Truth hurts, even when you try to preempt it, doesn't it?).  Because outside of two or three stalwarts of your institution, your school doesn't have the character to build pride and instill it in those that go there.  Tommies don't come to these boards unless the lockers are shiny and the team is winning.

The alumni of St John's have no problem communicating why SJU is a "special place", but I can clearly understand why you have a difficult time understanding that special mystique after spending your years in the culturally vapid dog pile on Summit.  The greatness of UST's drive to BC prominence lies in dedication to all athletics and crazy cool construction?  I think that your alumni will have a great time explaining why UST is a special place: We have great buildings and want to be just like other institutions you can go to.  Who has the harder message?  The institution with the unique call to something special or the institution that is just like another one, but not as good?

You want to come out criticize SJU, have the balls to do it straight up.  Don't stand shivering behind "human shields" like the shared culture of our Catholicism.  Courage, as I'm sure you are well aware, is one of the four Cardinal virtues.

I've clearly struck a nerve with some on this board and that was not my intent.  I've watched points very similar to my own go back and forth on this board for weeks, but somehow my input has been taken as "smarmy" and self-indulgent. 

To be clear I never said that SJU was "average" or "has nothing if it doesn't have football."  I pointed out that fans and alumni might fear a perception that such is the case.  You yourself just pointed out that the comment isn't very "original" so it seems fair to mention as a concern.   

I won't comment on the "Tommies Suck" part, as it was addressed in a previous post.  However, if I may, you might want to consider why there's so much venom for UST on this board.

I'm sure SJU was a special experience for you and many others.  In fact, I may have been too quick to downplay the ability of fans and alumni to convey its mystique.  At the same time I think you overlook many of the factors that are propelling UST forward.  UST is far more than athletics and cool construction; look at UST's mission, check out its academic offerings, and consider its focus on service.  UST isn't trying to be Boston College.  It's growing to enjoy the prominence and influence of Boston College, while keeping its identity as UST.

Mentioning the shared culture of Catholicism was simply a statement of fact.  There was no "human shield" involved.  I wouldn't criticize SJU straight up because there's no reason to do so.  I have provided an assessment of some of the issues surrounding UST and SJU football, which to my knowledge is the point of this board.

[OzJohnnie]

Hannibal won in the end, Bench.


EDIT: and yes, I obviously know you are calling me Clarice. Interesting tactic, though. Dismiss me as a person worth contributing here rather than substantiate your assertions.  Despite your fearful wish that you actually are dealing with rubes, I fear that you are not. So how was that flight all the way to ND?  Did it help you escape your screaming sheep?  As  as a first step to making assertions of character weakness, I suggest you wipe the steam from the mirror an have a good hard look yourself, Clarice.

[USTBench]

You know, at the end of the prequel book "Hannibal Rising," Lecter gets into Johns Hopkins Med School. I bet they've got some nice facilities.

[tommiegun]

Re: All the pretty buildings. 

Can't hurt: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_rosenberg/01/06/oregon.knight/index.html


Without Knightfunding (and girls), Oregon UST would be ... (gasp!) Oregon State SJU.

Part 1 is serious.  Part 2, hopefully, is seen as being as petty, stupid, and childish as some other recent posts.

Seriously, anyone not taking MIAC's first post as a well-intended assessment really is a rube.

[DoubleO]

Make sure to pick up the tissues when your little circle of Tommies finishes.

I love the style, though, of framing anyone who disagrees with you, particularly Johnnies, as "SJU rubes" with no "semblance of objectivity".  Anyone who thinks that UST is anything other than BC on the Mississippi must be not only filled with hatred, but delusional as well.

And Mr MIAC quietly coming in trying to be a neutral and objective source... well that lasted one paragraph until SJU was labeled "an average regional school"  that has nothing if it doesn't have football (OMG!  So original!).  And contrasting silly little SJU against the BC on the Mississip.  Well, that's just so... grown up and sophisticated, isn't it?  You wrap up your put downs in "smarmy" sentence construction and pat yourself on the back.  I'm so impressed.

You know why you have been a long time lurker and first time poster?  Because Tommies suck (Yeah, I went there.  The Truth hurts, even when you try to preempt it, doesn't it?).  Because outside of two or three stalwarts of your institution, your school doesn't have the character to build pride and instill it in those that go there.  Tommies don't come to these boards unless the lockers are shiny and the team is winning.

The alumni of St John's have no problem communicating why SJU is a "special place", but I can clearly understand why you have a difficult time understanding that special mystique after spending your years in the culturally vapid dog pile on Summit.  The greatness of UST's drive to BC prominence lies in dedication to all athletics and crazy cool construction?  I think that your alumni will have a great time explaining why UST is a special place: We have great buildings and want to be just like other institutions you can go to.  Who has the harder message?  The institution with the unique call to something special or the institution that is just like another one, but not as good?

You want to come out criticize SJU, have the balls to do it straight up.  Don't stand shivering behind "human shields" like the shared culture of our Catholicism.  Courage, as I'm sure you are well aware, is one of the four Cardinal virtues.

I've clearly struck a nerve with some on this board and that was not my intent.  I've watched points very similar to my own go back and forth on this board for weeks, but somehow my input has been taken as "smarmy" and self-indulgent. 

To be clear I never said that SJU was "average" or "has nothing if it doesn't have football."  I pointed out that fans and alumni might fear a perception that such is the case.  You yourself just pointed out that the comment isn't very "original" so it seems fair to mention as a concern.   

I won't comment on the "Tommies Suck" part, as it was addressed in a previous post.  However, if I may, you might want to consider why there's so much venom for UST on this board.

I'm sure SJU was a special experience for you and many others.  In fact, I may have been too quick to downplay the ability of fans and alumni to convey its mystique.  At the same time I think you overlook many of the factors that are propelling UST forward.  UST is far more than athletics and cool construction; look at UST's mission, check out its academic offerings, and consider its focus on service.  UST isn't trying to be Boston College.  It's growing to enjoy the prominence and influence of Boston College, while keeping its identity as UST.

Mentioning the shared culture of Catholicism was simply a statement of fact.  There was no "human shield" involved.  I wouldn't criticize SJU straight up because there's no reason to do so.  I have provided an assessment of some of the issues surrounding UST and SJU football, which to my knowledge is the point of this board.

Mr MIAC,

Take the attention to your post as a compliment. This board has long been a Johns smoke fest and apparently two things they were not taught up in Collegeville were how to share or play well with others. Let me welcome you to the mix and encourage you to stick around. I take immense pleasure in watching the Johns posters quickly take offense to what they perceive to be anti-John rhetoric. Although, I will admit what has been more enjoyable is watching the internal combustion that was the result of the Tommie/John slap. Some were actually calling for JG's job! Can you imagine, how bad it must have been?! 

Fact is, most Johns fans are having a horrible time dealing with The Tommies gridiron prominence. Take pleasure in it, I certainly am!

[hazzben]

Tommiegun & Mr. Miac,

I always bit my tongue when it came to these issues over the last few years on this board, because it just makes the SJU posters irate. I've been hearing these rumors for a long time now, and I have to admit, when I played/matriculated at UST, I would never have believed it in a million years. I always thought, "Nice school sure, but there just doesn't seem to be much of a commitment to updating anything around here."

I'm starting to see how naive I truly was. I was a political science major who took a ton of classes in the windowless OEC, or found himself in Roach/Aquinas or treking to other less inspired parts of the south campus. UST just seemed kind of...okay. As a football player, our facilities were no better than my high school's.

I get back to about one or two home games a year now, and it blows me away every time. Every year it gets nicer and nicer and where initially, I wasn't inclined to believe UST's goal was to expand it's national reputation, now, I can't help believe they are doing anything but that.

It's fun to prognosticate because the consensus always seems to be "Yeah right...no chance UST will do this or that." But then you look at the endowment and the construction, and the absolute palaces they're building in downtown Minneapolis (I kicked myself for going to UND for law school when I saw UST's, then I remembered the tuition break I was getting) and St. Paul. I gotta say, at this point, very few things are going to surprise me at UST anymore.

As to your substance, totally agree.  As to the bolded language, isn't that half the point of posting on here? 

I agree as well, but don't know why SJU fans and alumni would get irate.  UST and SJU are strikingly different institutions and one of the few similarities is that they share a common faith.  Aside from a football rivalry, I don't think these two institutions should be viewed as competitors; in all likelihood UST leadership probably don't think too much about SJU outside of sports, so why should alumni.  Though I no longer live in the region, in my view having both UST and SJU in MN is a good thing.  The state benefits from a nationally ranked, urban university and a regionally strong, rural university; both serve varied purposes and have different aspirations, which are largely complementary.

Their shared catholic faith almost seems insignificant in your post. And from everything I've seen over the past decade of MIAC affiliation, SJU and UST share more than just a football rivalry. Which is to say their rivalry goes much deeper than football.

No question UST has been raising their profile, both in terms of buildings and endowment. But to even mention them in the same breath as Notre Dame and Boston College just seems absurd (and I'm not trying to be a jerk here). Notre Dame's endowment is 6.3 billion dollars more than UST's. Those two schools are operating on a totally different level than UST and to be quite honest, always will. The gap between them in terms of national prestige and reputation is simply too much to overcome. To get into that league of prestige and national recognition, UST would have to go the FBS/BCS level. And there is just no way they have an opening to make that jump. Until they did they'd always be second fiddle to the UofM in the Twin Cities. And say what you want, but you're not much of a 'national' university if you're not even first in your own metro area.

Again, I'm not trying to disparage UST in the slightest. They're a very good school. But if they really want to swim in the Nationally ranked University pool, they'll always be on the outside looking in when it comes to prestige. They aren't even in the top 100 right now. And while they are obviously aggressively seeking to upgrade their profile, so is ever school ahead of them on that list.

The fact that SJU is regarded/ranked as a national liberal arts school just says they have a different philosophy regarding who they are and who they want to become. The same profile as Carleton, Mac, St. Olaf and GAC.

If UST really does intend to become a Notre Dame or a Boston College than the MIAC isn't the place for them. And I'd be sad to see them go, personally. But anytime you have to sell yourself as the Notre Dame or Boston College of the __________ you've already shown you're nothing like the school you're comparing yourself to. The most prestigious of the prestigious at the national level aren't trying to be anything but themselves. Carnegie Mellon, Washington University, Case Western Reserve, Johns Hopkins, Williams, Amherst, Carleton, Grinnell, etc. aren't trying to be anything but who they are. They've defined their niche and are excelling in it. UST can do that as well, but not by selling themselves as Notre Dame or Boston College 2.0.

That said, I can't wait to see how the game comes out on Saturday. Personally, I'm hoping Bethel represents well. I think the game will be more high scoring this year than last year. Bethel's O will need to score some points to keep them in this one. But they also seem to be hitting on all cylinders right now. Aakre has looked very efficient passing of late and Phenow and Marquardt are a great 1, 2 punch on the ground. But they'll need to be at full strength in the secondary and their corners will need to play their best game of the year. Our DB's performances against UST last year were huge for us, especially on the edge. Flaherty and Anderson had near perfect performances and forced UST to execute long drives that they weren't accustomed to doing prior to.

We're playing for our playoff lives on Saturday, so here's to staying alive and hitting our stride for the rest of the season.

Go Royals! 60 minutes of your best football to date and you can pull it out.

[USTBench]

Hannibal won in the end, Bench.


EDIT: and yes, I obviously know you are calling me Clarice. Interesting tactic, though. Dismiss me as a person worth contributing here rather than substantiate your assertions.  Despite your fearful wish that you actually are dealing with rubes, I fear that you are not. So how was that flight all the way to ND?  Did it help you escape your screaming sheep?  As  as a first step to making assertions of character weakness, I suggest you wipe the steam from the mirror an have a good hard look yourself, Clarice.

A dyslexic rube to boot!

Actually Oz, Australians have more of a penchant for buggery than we Nodaks: http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-man-marries-dog,0,210566.story

There's a strike at the sugar beet plant though, maybe you can run with that.

EDIT: Whoa is me, the passive aggressive "smite" rebuttal.

[Mr.MIAC]

Tommiegun & Mr. Miac,

I always bit my tongue when it came to these issues over the last few years on this board, because it just makes the SJU posters irate. I've been hearing these rumors for a long time now, and I have to admit, when I played/matriculated at UST, I would never have believed it in a million years. I always thought, "Nice school sure, but there just doesn't seem to be much of a commitment to updating anything around here."

I'm starting to see how naive I truly was. I was a political science major who took a ton of classes in the windowless OEC, or found himself in Roach/Aquinas or treking to other less inspired parts of the south campus. UST just seemed kind of...okay. As a football player, our facilities were no better than my high school's.

I get back to about one or two home games a year now, and it blows me away every time. Every year it gets nicer and nicer and where initially, I wasn't inclined to believe UST's goal was to expand it's national reputation, now, I can't help believe they are doing anything but that.

It's fun to prognosticate because the consensus always seems to be "Yeah right...no chance UST will do this or that." But then you look at the endowment and the construction, and the absolute palaces they're building in downtown Minneapolis (I kicked myself for going to UND for law school when I saw UST's, then I remembered the tuition break I was getting) and St. Paul. I gotta say, at this point, very few things are going to surprise me at UST anymore.

As to your substance, totally agree.  As to the bolded language, isn't that half the point of posting on here? 

I agree as well, but don't know why SJU fans and alumni would get irate.  UST and SJU are strikingly different institutions and one of the few similarities is that they share a common faith.  Aside from a football rivalry, I don't think these two institutions should be viewed as competitors; in all likelihood UST leadership probably don't think too much about SJU outside of sports, so why should alumni.  Though I no longer live in the region, in my view having both UST and SJU in MN is a good thing.  The state benefits from a nationally ranked, urban university and a regionally strong, rural university; both serve varied purposes and have different aspirations, which are largely complementary.

Their shared catholic faith almost seems insignificant in your post. And from everything I've seen over the past decade of MIAC affiliation, SJU and UST share more than just a football rivalry. Which is to say their rivalry goes much deeper than football.

No question UST has been raising their profile, both in terms of buildings and endowment. But to even mention them in the same breath as Notre Dame and Boston College just seems absurd (and I'm not trying to be a jerk here). Notre Dame's endowment is 6.3 billion dollars more than UST's. Those two schools are operating on a totally different level than UST and to be quite honest, always will. The gap between them in terms of national prestige and reputation is simply too much to overcome. To get into that league of prestige and national recognition, UST would have to go the FBS/BCS level. And there is just no way they have an opening to make that jump. Until they did they'd always be second fiddle to the UofM in the Twin Cities. And say what you want, but you're not much of a 'national' university if you're not even first in your own metro area.

Again, I'm not trying to disparage UST in the slightest. They're a very good school. But if they really want to swim in the Nationally ranked University pool, they'll always be on the outside looking in when it comes to prestige. They aren't even in the top 100 right now. And while they are obviously aggressively seeking to upgrade their profile, so is ever school ahead of them on that list.

The fact that SJU is regarded/ranked as a national liberal arts school just says they have a different philosophy regarding who they are and who they want to become. The same profile as Carleton, Mac, St. Olaf and GAC.

If UST really does intend to become a Notre Dame or a Boston College than the MIAC isn't the place for them. And I'd be sad to see them go, personally. But anytime you have to sell yourself as the Notre Dame or Boston College of the __________ you've already shown you're nothing like the school you're comparing yourself to. The most prestigious of the prestigious at the national level aren't trying to be anything but themselves. Carnegie Mellon, Washington University, Case Western Reserve, Johns Hopkins, Williams, Amherst, Carleton, Grinnell, etc. aren't trying to be anything but who they are. They've defined their niche and are excelling in it. UST can do that as well, but not by selling themselves as Notre Dame or Boston College 2.0.

That said, I can't wait to see how the game comes out on Saturday. Personally, I'm hoping Bethel represents well. I think the game will be more high scoring this year than last year. Bethel's O will need to score some points to keep them in this one. But they also seem to be hitting on all cylinders right now. Aakre has looked very efficient passing of late and Phenow and Marquardt are a great 1, 2 punch on the ground. But they'll need to be at full strength in the secondary and their corners will need to play their best game of the year. Our DB's performances against UST last year were huge for us, especially on the edge. Flaherty and Anderson had near perfect performances and forced UST to execute long drives that they weren't accustomed to doing prior to.

We're playing for our playoff lives on Saturday, so here's to staying alive and hitting our stride for the rest of the season.

Go Royals! 60 minutes of your best football to date and you can pull it out.

Thanks for you very reasoned and respectful post.  I'm also looking forward to the UST/BU game, as these are probably the two best teams in the MIAC this year. 

I think that in the past UST and SJU have shared much more than a football rivalry, but over the past few decades that has changed.  This started when UST went coeducational and became a university.  In the past they were both undergraduate colleges for men; now UST has the Opus College of Business, the Law School, and various other graduate schools.  More and more students come from outside the region and UST has nearly as many graduate students as undergraduates.  I don't think UST really sees SJU as a peer institution in part because they are structured so differently and also because they have focused on competing with other national universities.

You're right that Notre Dame and to a lesser degree Boston College have far larger endowments.  I think without some truly major donations UST will not be able to catch them on that front.  I didn't mean to imply that UST was going to necessarily go D1 either, as at this point the investment would be too great for little return. 

I don't think UST needs to have billions of dollars in endowment to reach a Notre Dame or Boston College level of prestige unless it wants to be a major research university.  There are plenty of smaller universities with endowments around $1 billion that are very prestigious (look at Georgetown).  I disagree that a university has to be the best in a metro area to be a high caliber national university.  Look at Chicago, which has both the University of Chicago and Northwestern.

UST may currently be ranked just outside the top 100, but they've climbed the rankings quite quickly.  UST has risen with the addition of the Law School, which is rapidly growing in prestige, and accreditation of the Opus School.  Further growth of the endowment will push UST well into the top 100.  UST is competing with higher ranked universities, but the point is that its continued rapid growth is pushing it upward in dramatic fashion.  This cannot be said for many of its competitors.   

I also disagree that universities in a state of growth can't frame themselves as following role model institutions and still be considered unique and prestigious.  If that was the case, then we can't say Harvard and Yale possess either of these qualities since throughout most of their existence they were actively marketed as American versions of Oxford and Cambridge. 

[USTBench]

Don't sweat it Mr. MIAC, some people don't know the difference between aspiration   and comparison. Apparently, expanding your mission, by evolving and moving into the 21st century is, according to some on this board, antithetical to the "courage" compenent of the four cardinal virtues for some reason. I guess taking big risks is cowardly.

Of course, at one time, St. Thomas was a seminary. Then, a railroad man saw potential in it expanded its mission to become a liberal arts college. Then, the US War Department termed it a military school. Yet, some years later, the military component of UST became optional. Still after that, UST became coeducational and expanded to a full-fledged University, expanding its graduate programs, property and mission.  A defunct law school shut down during the Depression was reinstated in 2001 in front of US Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, a business school has broadened its reputation and influence, and people that graduate or admire the university feel compelled to just give them money to the tune of a half-billion dollars. Trying, failing, trying, succeeding, but keep trying seems to be the MO at UST. Certainly doesn't seem to lack courage in my view.

Completely losing your $hit when someone new to the board brings in a different point of view must fall under "Restraint and Temperance."

Oz, you mad bro?

[Retired Old Rat]

You guys are really wrapped up in proclaiming the greatness/foresight/courage/.... of St. Thomas.

Georgetown?  Give me a break.

Can we get back to football?

Yes, I know you kicked our asses this year.  Please lord that over us.  That has become easier to accept in light of the asspirational pontification.

[sju56321]

I find the comment about Chicago Catholic high schools and freshman football and players wanting to go to UST very interesting. I live in the Chicago area, attended a Catholic high school and have a son who is a freshman football player and most players don't know UST from SJU or any MIAC school. They have heard of UWW and Mount. (Lake Zurich High School has a nice pipeline to UWW). But if you ask the high school kids about DIII college football, you get answers like UWW, Mount, St. Norbert, North Central, Beloit, etc.
There are obviously some kids that have dads, or brothers or cousins or friends who have those that have attended UST/CST or played in the MIAC that know about UST, but there is absolutely no coverage here of DIII football in Minnesota. As it is, it is hard to get coverage of Wheaton or NCC.
So, I don't think there will be a great migration to UST from the Chicago Catholic League. But I have always felt that the CCL would be a great recruiting ground.