FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[USTBench]

Back to football, if SJU football is on the wane what do you think will happen to the UST/SJU football rivalry? 

What an asinine question.  If the rivalry between SJU and UST didn't disappear between 1998 and 2009 when UST lost 12 straight to SJU, what makes you think a 2 game skid by SJU will affect it? 

Besides, I think rivalry games are more interesting to the fans than to the players.  If you need a rivalry to get up for a game, you shouldn't be on the field.  I never prepared any differently for a UST game than I did for any other game (of course we were 4-0 against UST during my tenure  ).

I think the current situation is different because UST fans and alumni might simply move on.  Based on my observations and conversations with people from both camps, during the years SJU dominated UST the alumni and fans of each university were motivated to maintain the rivalry for different reasons.  SJU folks saw the football matchup as a way to fell the big Catholic school in the Twin Cities that gets all the major donations and hogs the attention.  People at UST saw football as a weak spot and hoped for a good showing against what was the top program in the MIAC, which just happened to be Catholic and a historical competitor. 

SJU folks still likely see the football matchup as a way to fell the big Catholic school in the Twin Cities that gets all the major donations and hogs the attention.  However, if UST football is at the top then their alumni and fans have less interest in getting fired up for the SJU game.  They'll get more fired up for games against teams that pose a challenge, which this year is the one against BU.  The UST/SJU football rivalry isn't really about football.  It's about competition between the fan and alumni bases of two universities.  If UST fans and alumni grow generally apathetic toward SJU, which seems outside of football to be more and more the case, and SJU football doesn't rebound then the rivalry could diminish.  In short, it's not about the number of games won or lost, but rather the strategic positioning of the two schools involved and whether the games are competitive.

How 'bout felling the big Catholic school in the woods?  Seems UST has gone to great lengths to accomplish that.

Self proclaimed intellectuals like Mr. MIAC tend toward over analysis and miss the obvious.  His relative lack of rank on this board confirms that as well.  Any strategic initiative you mention above attempting to link alumni, competition, donors and rivalry potential is misguided. 

For you it's not about football.... for SJU rubes like myself, it's all about football.  Your typical UST grad up until the past few season cared less about football and more about the specials at Plums.

Why can't it be about both? 

[DoubleO]

Back to football, if SJU football is on the wane what do you think will happen to the UST/SJU football rivalry? 

What an asinine question.  If the rivalry between SJU and UST didn't disappear between 1998 and 2009 when UST lost 12 straight to SJU, what makes you think a 2 game skid by SJU will affect it? 

Besides, I think rivalry games are more interesting to the fans than to the players.  If you need a rivalry to get up for a game, you shouldn't be on the field.  I never prepared any differently for a UST game than I did for any other game (of course we were 4-0 against UST during my tenure  ).

I think the current situation is different because UST fans and alumni might simply move on.  Based on my observations and conversations with people from both camps, during the years SJU dominated UST the alumni and fans of each university were motivated to maintain the rivalry for different reasons.  SJU folks saw the football matchup as a way to fell the big Catholic school in the Twin Cities that gets all the major donations and hogs the attention.  People at UST saw football as a weak spot and hoped for a good showing against what was the top program in the MIAC, which just happened to be Catholic and a historical competitor. 

SJU folks still likely see the football matchup as a way to fell the big Catholic school in the Twin Cities that gets all the major donations and hogs the attention.  However, if UST football is at the top then their alumni and fans have less interest in getting fired up for the SJU game.  They'll get more fired up for games against teams that pose a challenge, which this year is the one against BU.  The UST/SJU football rivalry isn't really about football.  It's about competition between the fan and alumni bases of two universities.  If UST fans and alumni grow generally apathetic toward SJU, which seems outside of football to be more and more the case, and SJU football doesn't rebound then the rivalry could diminish.  In short, it's not about the number of games won or lost, but rather the strategic positioning of the two schools involved and whether the games are competitive.

Nothing is going to dispel the rivalry between the two schools. It's going to take A LOT more 63-7 scores in UST's favor to tilt the power tide in The Toms favor. The Johns still have (and will continue to have) the program to beat in the conference-a couple of victories does not stain their prodigious history. Dethroning them will serve as motivation for any kid who suits up as it will stir emotions in the alums, students, coaches & past players.

I don't dispute there are other rivalries for both teams, but the Tommie/John game will always remain a heated contest (for all involved). When it becomes one sided as it was in recent memory (Johns 12 game streak), it's no surprise that some players on the winning side would feel less emotion about the game, but you wouldn't contend that kids on the past couple of John teams don't feel a little extra motivation to beat the Tommies, would you? You're not outright denying that you felt a little extra satisfaction in beating The Tommies are you? For whatever reason, whether it was keeping the string of victories intact, sticking it to The Tommie fans most of you clearly have a distaste for or for the satisfaction gained in knowing you gave your fanbase another year of bragging rights the Tommie/John victory tastes a little different. I'm not saying that they are unable to get motivated for other games, but you can't help but feel the extra emotion when you're involved in a game like that. To claim anything less is kidding yourself.

Same thing from the other perspective can be said about the games played on the hardwood. They have been as one sided, but I don't think for one second the UST hoopers don't feel added juice when the Johns are in town. I know all of my former roomates who played hoops loved nothing more than beating up on The Johns. Again, not saying that they don't feel other rivalries with teams that may be a little more competitive, but when you walk into a gym with both fan bases as wound up as they get in Tommie/John tilts, you'd be incredibly naive not to sense all the emotion.

All that said, the only rivalry that matters this week is the one with the Royals. Here's to The Toms being able to provide some payback for Bethel ending such an enjoyable season last year. Much respect to your program and good health to both squads. Looking forward to Saturday. I'll be in South Bend, but will be attempting to stream it at our tailgate. Roll Tommies, Roll!   

[Pat Coleman]

For you it's not about football.... for SJU rubes like myself, it's all about football.

Couldn't have said it better myself. 

Pat, maybe you could create a d3institutionaladvancement.com site for Mr. MIAC?

Putting it on the list along with d3attendancerecords.com.

[Mr.MIAC]

Here's the UST perspective on the upcoming game with BU.

Link: http://www.tommiemedia.com/featured-news/st-thomas-looks-for-redemption-against-bethel/

[DuffMan]

Putting it on the list along with d3attendancerecords.com.

Nice! 

[AO]

Since it seems the Johnnie-Tommie rivalry is deteriorating, let's upgrade the Northwestern-St. Thomas rivalry to fill the void.  We had your national champs on the ropes in playoff hoops last year, and the football program has to turn around at some point, right?  St. Thomas also holds a unique place in Northwestern's history books.  The St. Thomas college fund was used to build Nazareth Hall which operated as a preparatory seminary which sent their graduates to St. Thomas until 1970 when it was sold to Northwestern.  I like to think that I could find many Tommies who could walk the halls today and be disgusted at how Northwestern evangelicalized all the wacky Catholic stuff.  We turned the crypt into a cafeteria, removed statues and tombs, put huge speakers in the chapel and use it for concerts and as a big money wedding venue.  Could you imagine selling St. Thomas Academy to Bethel today?

[grboob]

Duffman,

'Plus, no "college town environment"?  There is Brother Willy's pub on campus plus 5 bars that I can think of within a 10 minute, FREE, bus ride of SJU, if that's what you're talking about "

Wrong, Duffer.  Actually I was referring to the cultural environment rather than having to go only to 6 bars in a isolated area.  Also, learning how to be responsible for my own behavior as I become a mature individual, in a larger urban setting.  Also, I don't like to be bussed around by the school admin.

Just my personal preferences.

grboob

[badger45]

Is St. Thomas really this good to only allow 7 points in the past 3 games or is the MIAC becoming less competitive?  I am hoping for a stellar game vs. Bethel this weekend to showcase the MIAC has strong teams and possibly deserves to have 2 represented in the playoffs.

When do the regional rankings come out?

From what I've seen and heard I don't know.  Looking at the teams they beat, st. johns, augsburg and hamline, I don't consider it a very tough three games.  I do know st. johns is usually pretty good but this year they seem to be struggling a ton.  If Olaf can stay at one loss i think they have a chance to make playoffs but hard time seeing bethel get in.

Analysis fail. UST also beat your purported other playoff team, St. Olaf, by the narrow margin of 35 points (49-14). As well as a perennial playoff team in St. Norberts, a decent Concordia team, and a WIAC team (albeit a crappy WIAC team, but a WIAC team nonetheless).

I wasn't saying UST was not as good as everyone thinks.  I was just saying Olaf is really the only other team in the MIAC that might have a shot at making the playoffs.  Secondly the teams that UST held to 7 total points were not exactly the cream of the crop.  Granted Augsburg has done well but they seem to be coming back down to earth after their start.  Everyone knows the Johnnies are not what they have been and well, Hamline.  Yeah.  They have been shut out in 5 of 6.  So yes UST is a great team and I expect they will make a good run in the playoffs and i wasn't meaning my previous post to be a slight towards them. 

[DuffMan]

Well, la-tee-f-ing-dah, grboob!  I'll bet you came away from UST so much better prepared for the real world than I did from SJU!

Contrary to your beliefs, many of us come away from Collegeville and lead successful lives.  I have a great job, wife, kid, and own my own home (in the Twin Cities, no less!), two cars, and a boat.  Pretty amazing for a guy from a school in a "really, really, really rural area", don't you think?

[Retired Old Rat]

Well, la-tee-f-ing-dah, grboob!  I'll bet you came away from UST so much better prepared for the real world than I did from SJU!

Contrary to your beliefs, many of us come away from Collegeville and lead successful lives.  I have a great job, wife, kid, and own my own home (in the Twin Cities, no less!), two cars, and a boat.  Pretty amazing for a guy from a school in a "really, really, really rural area", don't you think?

I'm sure you're happy, as am I, that your employer allows you to come to work in your bib overalls.

[DuffMan]

Yes, and we have a hitchin' post that I can tie my horse to!

[TheManWhoRidesAlone]

Gentlemen -

Thank you. I have enjoyed, consistently, reading your entertaining banter on this board. It is always pretty well thought out and mostly fun. My highlights from today's reading: The Silence of the Lambs back-and-forth was truly funny, and in roast style:

UST being called the "Lifetime Fitness of the MIAC," that line is gold, Jerry, pure gold!

Concordia-Moorhead is the "Switzerland of the MIAC." Once again, good stuff. Here's my challenge, we have two analogies here for these 2 schools - do you have anymore for the other MIAC institutions. I will hang up and listen...

[Mr.MIAC]

I think you read a whole lot more into the rivalry than the average fan.

...the big Catholic school in the Twin Cities that gets all the major donations and hogs the attention.

Hogs all the attention?  Sorry to burst your ever-expanding Tommie head, but aside from UST or maybe MIAC alumni, I don't see the general MSP population giving a rat's arse about UST, nor any other MIAC institution.  I hardly think they are "hogging attention".

Take a look at the amount of press coverage UST (the university, not just football) gets in the Twin Cities.  The short answer is that it's a lot.  UST is the largest private university in MN by a long ways and the alumni base is huge, second only to the U of M, in the Twin Cities.  If UST develops or merges with a major medical school, as has been talked about for some time, their profile will jump even higher. 

The general population seems to have enough interest to warrant a major media provider, WCCO, seeking them out for exclusive broadcasting rights to UST athletics.  Over time this will further expand the fan base outside the Twin Cities and across the Midwest. 

[DustySJU]

I think you read a whole lot more into the rivalry than the average fan.

...the big Catholic school in the Twin Cities that gets all the major donations and hogs the attention.

Hogs all the attention?  Sorry to burst your ever-expanding Tommie head, but aside from UST or maybe MIAC alumni, I don't see the general MSP population giving a rat's arse about UST, nor any other MIAC institution.  I hardly think they are "hogging attention".

Take a look at the amount of press coverage UST (the university, not just football) gets in the Twin Cities.  The short answer is that it's a lot.  UST is the largest private university in MN by a long ways and the alumni base is huge, second only to the U of M, in the Twin Cities.  If UST develops or merges with a major medical school, as has been talked about for some time, their profile will jump even higher. 

The general population seems to have enough interest to warrant a major media provider, WCCO, seeking them out for exclusive broadcasting rights to UST athletics.  Over time this will further expand the fan base outside the Twin Cities and across the Midwest.

I'm going to take a guess and say UST is paying the "good" neighbor to broadcast their games and all that UST press is paid advertising.  Take it to the bank.

[Mr.MIAC]

I think you read a whole lot more into the rivalry than the average fan.

...the big Catholic school in the Twin Cities that gets all the major donations and hogs the attention.

Hogs all the attention?  Sorry to burst your ever-expanding Tommie head, but aside from UST or maybe MIAC alumni, I don't see the general MSP population giving a rat's arse about UST, nor any other MIAC institution.  I hardly think they are "hogging attention".

Take a look at the amount of press coverage UST (the university, not just football) gets in the Twin Cities.  The short answer is that it's a lot.  UST is the largest private university in MN by a long ways and the alumni base is huge, second only to the U of M, in the Twin Cities.  If UST develops or merges with a major medical school, as has been talked about for some time, their profile will jump even higher. 

The general population seems to have enough interest to warrant a major media provider, WCCO, seeking them out for exclusive broadcasting rights to UST athletics.  Over time this will further expand the fan base outside the Twin Cities and across the Midwest.

I'm going to take a guess and say UST is paying the "good" neighbor to broadcast their games and all that UST press is paid advertising.  Take it to the bank.

Right, so now UST is paying for press...no offense but sounds a bit delusional.  Also, why would UST have to pay for WCCO broadcasting when they have a group of official sponsors for UST athletic games, including Land O Lakes and Sun Country.