FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[USTBench]

Apparently clear video and photographic evidence wasn't enough to convince Coach Horan, or perhaps he hadn't seen it yet.

I'd wager that if you sat down and watched it with him today, he'd admit that the right call was made.  It was probably just the raw emotions at the moment, and wanting to believe that they got screwed, rather than that they had screwed themselves.

Doubtful. Spirit of the game v. rulebook. I'd think most refs would say there's a time to be subjective and a time to be objective.

That said, he had every right to make the call. I just don't think I would.

As a neutral third party, I think the Cobbs got hosed. if I was in Johnson's shoes however, I'd gladly take the W.

That said, as one of the most experienced bench players in MIAC history, you don't leave the sideline until the ref makes a signal.

[GoldandBlueBU]

Apparently clear video and photographic evidence wasn't enough to convince Coach Horan, or perhaps he hadn't seen it yet.

I'd wager that if you sat down and watched it with him today, he'd admit that the right call was made.  It was probably just the raw emotions at the moment, and wanting to believe that they got screwed, rather than that they had screwed themselves.

Doubtful. Spirit of the game v. rulebook. I'd think most refs would say there's a time to be subjective and a time to be objective.

That said, he had every right to make the call. I just don't think I would.

As a neutral third party, I think the Cobbs got hosed. if I was in Johnson's shoes however, I'd gladly take the W.

That said, as one of the most experienced bench players in MIAC history, you don't leave the sideline until the ref makes a signal.

I guess I was more referring to how he had stated in interviews immediately after the game that he didn't think anyone was on the field before the ball was possessed by the cobbers, where video clearly shows guys on the field, and well onto the field in the case of #27. 

I completely see where you're coming from with the "spirit of the game vs. rulebook" argument, but with how close #27 was to a live ball, and the fact that he was all the way out onto the numbers, not just a step or two on the field, I don't see how you could get away with not throwing a flag.  That is with my bias, of course.

[faunch]

Apparently clear video and photographic evidence wasn't enough to convince Coach Horan, or perhaps he hadn't seen it yet.

I'd wager that if you sat down and watched it with him today, he'd admit that the right call was made.  It was probably just the raw emotions at the moment, and wanting to believe that they got screwed, rather than that they had screwed themselves.

Doubtful. Spirit of the game v. rulebook. I'd think most refs would say there's a time to be subjective and a time to be objective.

That said, he had every right to make the call. I just don't think I would.

As a neutral third party, I think the Cobbs got hosed. if I was in Johnson's shoes however, I'd gladly take the W.

That said, as one of the most experienced bench players in MIAC history, you don't leave the sideline until the ref makes a signal.

I guess I was more referring to how he had stated in interviews immediately after the game that he didn't think anyone was on the field before the ball was possessed by the cobbers, where video clearly shows guys on the field, and well onto the field in the case of #27. 

I completely see where you're coming from with the "spirit of the game vs. rulebook" argument, but with how close #27 was to a live ball, and the fact that he was all the way out onto the numbers, not just a step or two on the field, I don't see how you could get away with not throwing a flag.  That is with my bias, of course.

So what if one of the ineligible Cobber players in sheer jubilance jumps on the player that recovered the fumble and in turn causes him to fumble and it is picked up by the BU QB.  The QB then runs or better yet launches the ball into the end zone for a TD.  Concordia had players and a coach on the field before their team had possession. 
The play was still live..it's a penalty and yes a really crappy way to lose a game. 

[RoyalBU]

I spoke to one of the officials (a Johnnie) who was situated on the opposite side of the field. If the kid (CC D-lineman) would have jumped on the ball or left it alone- the play would have been over. By picking the ball up & running he kept the play alive and allowed the penalty,too many men on the field,to be called. The officiating crew discussed at length before making their final ruling.

I feel bad for the kid,but that's why everyone has to have their head in the game, if the bench players would have stayed on the sideline the TD would have counted & Cobbers win 20-7 (or ) 21-7 depending on making the PAT.

I'm not sure that explanation makes sense.  Had the bench maintained discipline until after the change of posession at recovery, then the game would have ended.  The players and coach left the bench before the D-lineman even had a chance to fall on the ball, so the defensive infraction had already been commited regardless of what action he took.  Also, no way that play gets blown dead if he had simply left the ball alone.  If he doesn't get it, somebody else would have.  There was nothing he could have done to alleviate the situation already in progress on his bench.  His having to weave through his teammates on the way to the endzone only served to make more obvious what had already happened.  I agree that if the player had just fallen on the ball it would have been much less likely that the officials would have called the penalty, but that's just conjecture. 

The kid to feel bad for is #27.  What an infamous picture to take away from your senior season that would be.

The lesson learned is that just one breakdown of discipline can be enough to undermine a tremendous 60 minute effort.  As someone else pointed out, that penalty was their only one of the day.

Also, lost in all of that is the tremendous plays made by Bethel receivers on the last drive, particularly the one by Hallstrom.  I've only seen one catch more impressive than that one on that field, and it was by some guy wearing #86 for SJU...think his last name was Elliot?  Yeah, something like that.

Here is a shot of Hallstrom's catch http://bethelathletics.smugmug.com/Bethel-Football/2012/Bethel-vs-ConcordiaCS/25810798_ts37Kj#!i=2136302672&k=bFg79Mp&lb=1&s=A

[hazzben]

Here are a couple shots of the following:

Players & coaches on the field as the fumble is recovered.

Hillbrands TD Catch

[AO]

WEEK 7 PICK-EM'S

Name	W1	W2	W3	W4	W5	W6	W7	W8	W9	W10	W11	Overall
FCGrizzliesGrad	10	5	15	14	10	13						67
hazzben	13	8	9	14	10	11						65
miacmaniac	11	10	12	14	11	5						63
USTBench	14	13	11	11	7	7						63
GoldandBlueBU	9	10	7	12	9	9						56
Repete	12	5	13	11	7	5						53
sju56321	10	9	10	11	7	6						53
RoyalBU	7	11	10	11	7	6						52
smedindy	13	7	5	7	10	10						52
WashedUp	8	10	8	11	12	2						51
finsleft	11	4	7	8	7	8						45
AO	5	7	8	7	7	10						44
raiderguy	12	-	9	11	9	2						43
Retired Old Rat	9	10	2	10	7	5						43
AlmostEx	6	10	1	4	8	10						39
jayhawkdaddy	12	10	-	-	7	6						35
02 Warhawk	4	7	9	1	8	4						33
SagatagSam	9	11	5	-	-	2						27

Week 7 Oct. 13

Conference: 3pts
Augsburg (+3.5) @ St. Olaf
Hamline (+32.5) @ #27 Concordia
Carleton (+10.5) @ St. John's
#9 Bethel (+7.5) @ #4 St. Thomas

Non-Conference: 2pts
Valley City St. (+9.5) @ Gustavus

West Region: 1pt
Rhodes @ Macalester (+10.5)
#13 UW-Platteville @ #19 UW-Oshkosh (+4.5)

National: 1pt
#25 Otterbein (+2.5) @ #25 Heidelberg

[cobbernation]

Bethel - Concordia game got some run in Deadspin today: http://deadspin.com/5949884/division-iii-football-game-provides-reminder-not-to-storm-the-field-until-the-game-is-actually-over

My favorite comment from the story: To be fair, Preparing For The End-Times is the second most popular freshmen seminar at Bethel, narrowly beaten out by Left Behind Books: Are They Ever An Inappropriate Gift?

Thanks for posting this video. What an ending! Congrats to Bethel on the great last second win.

I wouldn't call it a great win for bethel, but more of a fortunate win.  My brother in law attended the game and Horan argued for minutes about that last play being a forward pass ultimately ending the game when the ball hit the ground.  It's hard to tell in the video and probably even more difficult to tell in real time for the refs. 

Oh well.  Tough game to lose for the cobbers.  All they have to do is win out and have Bethel lose to UST.  I better include Auggie Tech in this conversation as well. They seem to be legit.

Pat C,
Do you know who holds the tiebreaker in the MIAC between Augsburg, Bethel, Concordia and UST?

[Pat Coleman]

A four-way tie can be broken by head-to-head results. Generally it's the three-way ties that are difficult because usually those teams each split against the other two. In a four-way tie, in a sport without tied contests, you're going to end up with teams that are 2-1 and others that are 1-2 against the group. From there you lift out the 2-1 teams, and if there's still two teams tied, then you take the head-to-head result between the two.

[wartknight]

Apparently clear video and photographic evidence wasn't enough to convince Coach Horan, or perhaps he hadn't seen it yet.

I'd wager that if you sat down and watched it with him today, he'd admit that the right call was made.  It was probably just the raw emotions at the moment, and wanting to believe that they got screwed, rather than that they had screwed themselves.

Doubtful. Spirit of the game v. rulebook. I'd think most refs would say there's a time to be subjective and a time to be objective.

That said, he had every right to make the call. I just don't think I would.

As a neutral third party, I think the Cobbs got hosed. if I was in Johnson's shoes however, I'd gladly take the W.

That said, as one of the most experienced bench players in MIAC history, you don't leave the sideline until the ref makes a signal.

I agree with you here Bench, except maybe not as strong as "hosed" since it is the "rule". However you look @ it, a very tough way to lose!

[hazzben]

WEEK 7 PICK-EM'S

Name	W1	W2	W3	W4	W5	W6	W7	W8	W9	W10	W11	Overall
hazzben	13	8	9	14	10	11						65
miacmaniac	11	10	12	14	11	5						63
USTBench	14	13	11	11	7	7						63

Here's to hoping the MIAC posters currently at the top of the pickem's board are a predictor of how the MIAC standings will start to shake out after Saturday! 

[USTBench]

WEEK 7 PICK-EM'S

Name	W1	W2	W3	W4	W5	W6	W7	W8	W9	W10	W11	Overall
hazzben	13	8	9	14	10	11						65
miacmaniac	11	10	12	14	11	5						63
USTBench	14	13	11	11	7	7						63

Here's to hoping the MIAC posters currently at the top of the pickem's board are a predictor of how the MIAC standings will start to shake out after Saturday! 

Yikes!

Should be another smash mouth UST/BU game, but with the amount of turnovers UST has had this year I'm not as confident they'll run the table in the MIAC. At least not easily.

I can say with a high degree of certainty that unless UST sharpens up offensively and protects the football, 4 of the next 5 games can be lost. Obviously, Coach Caruso has had a bit of a RB carousel this year (along with other positions), so he could just be seeing which of the guys he gives opportunities to will step up and be his "dependables." (a la Tobin, Tracy and Waldvogel) Essentially, I might be worried for nothing, but, you never know until you get to the heart of the schedule, and these next 5 weeks are going to be very, very tough.

[hazzben]

I think Bethel's D is up to the task Saturday.

I think it's great to have Phenow back at RB. He makes the running game more potent and physical. And he's a leader on offense.

I think the offense has to kick the penalty bug. We killed multiple drives on Saturday with bad penalties that left us sitting at 2nd or 3rd and long.

I think the Oline must play its most complete game to date. Protecting Peterson is crucial. And this is the best front 7 we've faced so far. This is the biggest key. Execution, turnovers, penalties, big plays...they're always crucial for both sides. But the game gets decided by how Bethel's Oline can establish the LOS and protect its QB against a formidable opponent.

[PurpleReign]

I think Bethel's D is up to the task Saturday.

I think it's great to have Phenow back at RB. He makes the running game more potent and physical. And he's a leader on offense.

I think the offense has to kick the penalty bug. We killed multiple drives on Saturday with bad penalties that left us sitting at 2nd or 3rd and long.

I think the Oline must play its most complete game to date. Protecting Peterson is crucial. And this is the best front 7 we've faced so far. This is the biggest key. Execution, turnovers, penalties, big plays...they're always crucial for both sides. But the game gets decided by how Bethel's Oline can establish the LOS and protect its QB against a formidable opponent.

You better have one hell of an o-line - that's all I can say.  I don't think it matters or not if this Phenow cat is back, it's the o-line that will be the key.

[GoldandBlueBU]

I think Bethel's D is up to the task Saturday.

I think it's great to have Phenow back at RB. He makes the running game more potent and physical. And he's a leader on offense.

I think the offense has to kick the penalty bug. We killed multiple drives on Saturday with bad penalties that left us sitting at 2nd or 3rd and long.

I think the Oline must play its most complete game to date. Protecting Peterson is crucial. And this is the best front 7 we've faced so far. This is the biggest key. Execution, turnovers, penalties, big plays...they're always crucial for both sides. But the game gets decided by how Bethel's Oline can establish the LOS and protect its QB against a formidable opponent.

You better have one hell of an o-line - that's all I can say.  I don't think it matters or not if this Phenow cat is back, it's the o-line that will be the key.

The pessemist in me is concerned about the game because to date, it doesn't seem like this year's edition of the line has the ability to impose their will like the past several years.

The optimist in me doesn't think that UST is the dominant force that they were last year.

Should be a fun game...hopefully!  Does the rain forecasted for Saturday factor in favorably for either side?

[PurpleReign]

I think Bethel's D is up to the task Saturday.

I think it's great to have Phenow back at RB. He makes the running game more potent and physical. And he's a leader on offense.

I think the offense has to kick the penalty bug. We killed multiple drives on Saturday with bad penalties that left us sitting at 2nd or 3rd and long.

I think the Oline must play its most complete game to date. Protecting Peterson is crucial. And this is the best front 7 we've faced so far. This is the biggest key. Execution, turnovers, penalties, big plays...they're always crucial for both sides. But the game gets decided by how Bethel's Oline can establish the LOS and protect its QB against a formidable opponent.

You better have one hell of an o-line - that's all I can say.  I don't think it matters or not if this Phenow cat is back, it's the o-line that will be the key.

The pessemist in me is concerned about the game because to date, it doesn't seem like this year's edition of the line has the ability to impose their will like the past several years.

The optimist in me doesn't think that UST is the dominant force that they were last year.

Should be a fun game...hopefully!  Does the rain forecasted for Saturday factor in favorably for either side?

Should be fun, should be a lot of fun.  The weather should affect the passing game, and with O'Connell tossing a lot of interceptions could bode well for Beth.